No, the Democrats did not lose by going too far left.

[Rightguide]

He's stuck 40 years in the past at least...... seems to think the GOP and DNC are the same as they were in the 80's. What a fuckin' imbecile.

And I might add, stuck on stupid.

 

[Politruk]

Liberalism is not fascism.

Buckley/Reagan movement conservatism is not liberalism.

 

[Politruk]

The TVTropes page on "Political Ideologies" can help us put all this in its proper perspective.

It has sections on:
Liberalism — For Equal Opportunity!
Conservatism — For Tradition and Stability!
Christian Democracy — For God and His people!
Libertarianism — For The Free Market!
Socialism — For Economic Equality!
Social Democracy — For Freedom and Equality!
Marxism — For the International Working Class!
Anarchism — For Absolute Freedom!
Fascism — For Our Nation, Our Leader, and Victory!

Of these, only Socialism, Social Democracy, Marxism and Anarchism* count as "left." Liberalism does not. And you won't find much Socialism, Social Democracy, Marxism or Anarchism in the Democratic Party.

*N.B. Anarchism is not just a more extreme form of American Libertarianism. Anarchism is a European tradition closely associated with Marxism. In a nutshell, Libertarians oppose the state because they see it as a threat to private property, and Anarchists oppose the state because they see it as a guardian of private property. Except for the Anarcho-Capitalists, of whom the less said the better.

 

[TrailerHitch]

The TVTropes page on "Political Ideologies" can help us put all this in its proper perspective.

It has sections on:
Liberalism — For Equal Opportunity!
Conservatism — For Tradition and Stability!
Christian Democracy — For God and His people!
Libertarianism — For The Free Market!
Socialism — For Economic Equality!
Social Democracy — For Freedom and Equality!
Marxism — For the International Working Class!
Anarchism — For Absolute Freedom!
Fascism — For Our Nation, Our Leader, and Victory!

Of these, only Socialism, Social Democracy, Marxism and Anarchism* count as "left." Liberalism does not. And you won't find much Socialism, Social Democracy, Marxism or Anarchism in the Democratic Party.

*N.B. Anarchism is not just a more extreme form of American Libertarianism. Anarchism is a European tradition closely associated with Marxism. In a nutshell, Libertarians oppose the state because they see it as a threat to private property, and Anarchists oppose the state because they see it as a guardian of private property. Except for the Anarcho-Capitalists, of whom the less said the better.

Whose ALT are you?

 

[UltraChad]

Buckley/Reagan movement conservatism is not liberalism.

It's neoliberalism, Trump is also a neoliberal.

 

[UltraChad]

The TVTropes page on "Political Ideologies" can help us put all this in its proper perspective.

It has sections on:
Liberalism — For Equal Opportunity!
Conservatism — For Tradition and Stability!
Christian Democracy — For God and His people!
Libertarianism — For The Free Market!
Socialism — For Economic Equality!
Social Democracy — For Freedom and Equality!
Marxism — For the International Working Class!
Anarchism — For Absolute Freedom!
Fascism — For Our Nation, Our Leader, and Victory!

Of these, only Socialism, Social Democracy, Marxism and Anarchism* count as "left." Liberalism does not. And you won't find much Socialism, Social Democracy, Marxism or Anarchism in the Democratic Party.

*N.B. Anarchism is not just a more extreme form of American Libertarianism. Anarchism is a European tradition closely associated with Marxism. In a nutshell, Libertarians oppose the state because they see it as a threat to private property, and Anarchists oppose the state because they see it as a guardian of private property. Except for the Anarcho-Capitalists, of whom the less said the better.

Socialism at large and Marxism specifically are anti-equality in that the only equality they seek is that of outcome. AKA equity, not the same as equality in general that's why we have a different word for it, EQUITY. Top leftist value.

They also don't understand liberalism, it's not about equality, it's about liberty. And I never claimed liberals were left wing, almost eclusively otherwise, leftist are near universally authoritarians.

Anarchism is the "left" the same way atheism is a religion, it's not.

None of this changes the fact that the Democrats are equity seeking collectivist and definitively left wing.

 

[ChloeTzang]

It's neoliberalism, Trump is also a neoliberal.

A neoliberal centralist. Trump is NOT right wing. At heart, he's a transactional pragmatist with a rather traditional centrist view point. With Trump. the Center IS holding, and we can only hope it continues to do so. Trump represents all that's best in American politics.

 

[Politruk]

It's neoliberalism, Trump is also a neoliberal.

No, he isn't. Neoliberalism is another name for economic libertarianism. Trump is not that, if he would even think in terms of tariffs or protectionism. Neoliberals are free-trade economic globalizers.

 

[Holy_Seduction]

The left wants to…

The “left” isn’t eliminating individual rights or private property in any absolute sense.

Marxism critiques the way private property operates under capitalism, where wealth and resources are concentrated in the hands of a few, leading to inequality and social injustice.

Socialists demand an equitable distribution of resources through democratic control on the local level.

You can also keep your business until its value is 10B, at which point we’ll figure you’ve done well enough, and it is time to make it a public utility, administered by a local, democratically elected board.

Believe me when I tell you — no one is coming for your toothbrush!

Chairman Mao expressed a Stalinist and therefore a reactionary, petit-bourgeoisie tendency. That is not socialism.

Socialism aims to create a society where all individuals can thrive, free from exploitation and class-based injustice.

 

[Politruk]

Trump represents all that's best in American politics.

No, that would be Bernie Sanders. Who is no socialist, but is a social democrat -- that's what we really need, here.

 

[TrailerHitch]

No, that would be Bernie Sanders. Who is no socialist, but is a social democrat -- that's what we really need, here.

Bernie Sanders? I understand you now, you are a satirist, with nothing you say to be taken seriously.

 

[Politruk]

Bernie Sanders? I understand you now, you are a satirist, with nothing you say to be taken seriously.

What? Sanders calls himself a socialist, but he's not, he's really a social democrat. Wants a vigorous welfare state and a redistributive tax system, but nationalizing the means of production is not on the agenda.

And social democracy is better than . . . whatever you call Trump's politics. Social democracy works better than anything else that has yet been tried -- better than authoritarian Communism, better that the the American version of plutocracy-ruled capitalism -- you can tell from the track records of the actually existing social democracies, where things in general go better than they go here. So, there really is nothing better than Sanders in American politics.

 

[UltraChad]

No, he isn't.

Yes, he is. And so was Reagan.

Neoliberalism is another name for economic libertarianism.

Thanks for verifying you don't know what those words mean anymore than you know what socialism and capitalism are.

Trump is not that, if he would even think in terms of tariffs or protectionism. Neoliberals are free-trade economic globalizers.

Which Trump largely is......except with our enemies. Not throwing money at people who hate/exploit/attack you is a perfectly reasonable limitation to anyone not a Democrat, who insist on literally doing the opposite and that anyone who questions it is a Nazi.

 

[Politruk]

Thanks for verifying you don't know what those words mean anymore than you know what socialism and capitalism are.

Neoliberalism:

Neoliberalism[1] is both a political philosophy and a term used to signify the late-20th-century political reappearance of 19th-century ideas associated with free-market capitalism.[2][3][4][5][6][7] The term has multiple, competing definitions, and is often used pejoratively.[8][9] In scholarly use, the term is often left undefined or used to describe a multitude of phenomena.[10][11][12] However, it is primarily employed to delineate the societal transformation resulting from market-based reforms.[13]

Neoliberalism is an economic philosophy that originated among European liberal scholars during the 1930s. It emerged as a response to the perceived decline in popularity of classical liberalism, which was seen as giving way to a social liberal desire to control markets. This shift in thinking was shaped by the Great Depression and manifested in policies designed to counter the volatility of free markets.[14] One motivation for the development of policies designed to mitigate the volatility of capitalist free markets was a desire to avoid repeating the economic failures of the early 1930s, which have been attributed, in part, to the economic policy of classical liberalism. In the context of policymaking, the term neoliberalism is often used to describe a paradigm shift that followed the failure of the post-war consensus and neo-Keynesian economics to address the stagflation of the 1970s.[15][1] The collapse of the USSR and the end of the Cold War also facilitated the rise of neoliberalism in the United States and around the world.[16][17]

In other words, economic libertarianism.

 

[UltraChad]

The “left” isn’t eliminating individual rights or private property in any absolute sense.

Looking at how far so many socialist nations have gone?? I dont' buy it.

Socialists demand an equitable distribution of resources through democratic control on the local level.

Democratic socialist do. Marxist sure as shit don't and neither do many other socialist.

You can also keep your business until its value is 10B, at which point we’ll figure you’ve done well enough, and it is time to make it a public utility, administered by a local, democratically elected board.

Right, no private property.....if the collective gets to decide if, when and how I keep "my" buissness. Controls every aspect of how "I" run it. Charges me a premium for the privilege, wealth taxes it then takes 40-80% of the value of my labor into it effectively making me a mid level wage slave manager....is it really MY business? Most sane people would say not at all,

OWNERS don't pay rent and get told what to do with their property or how to manage their business.

Believe me when I tell you — no one is coming for your toothbrush!

North Koreans, Soviet citizens, East Germans, Cubans, a fuck ton of Chinese and many millions of others have reported otherwise.

Chairman Mao expressed a Stalinist and therefore a reactionary, petit-bourgeoisie tendency. That is not socialism.

It absolutely is. Socialism is collective ownership of the means of production (property, natural resources and labor). .....not doing feel good warm n' fuzzy shit for poor people. People thriving free from exploitation and class based injustice has NOTHING to do with it.

Socialism aims to create a society where all individuals can thrive, free from exploitation and class-based injustice

LMFAO.... just wow. Who told you that lie?? You've been lied to. Horribly.

From 1790's France to 1930's Germany socialism has a HORRIFYING record as one of the worst economic systems and political cancers that humans have ever inflicted upon themselves. Yet people still buy into that scam...because it "sounds good"...just ignore the 200+ years of over the top oppression, mass murder and genocide for EQUITY!!! ....I don't get it. It's fuckin' retarded.

 

[UltraChad]

Neoliberalism:


In other words, economic libertarianism.

Economic liberalism....not economic libertarianism. Neoliberals are not libertarians, no matter how much you try to conflate the two. Why do you need to pretend they are even when YOU link the proof they aren't.

It's like your need to pretend the Democrats haven't changed a bit from JFK, he's the end all be all forever and all democrats are just like him. IGNORE the last 61 years!!!! To persist in some absurd delusion that Democrats, literal race-communist, aren't leftist.

Is it just some compulsive need to deny objective reality at every turn???

 

[Politruk]

Economic liberalism....not economic libertarianism. Neoliberals are not libertarians, no matter how much you try to conflate the two. Why do you need to pretend they are even when YOU link the proof they aren't.

I linked the proof that they are. Read for comprehension, you idiot!

It's like your need to pretend the Democrats haven't changed a bit from JFK, he's the end all be all forever and all democrats are just like him. IGNORE the last 61 years!!!! To persist in some absurd delusion that Democrats, literal race-communist, aren't leftist.

Is it just some compulsive need to deny objective reality at every turn???

Any change in the Democratic Party since the 1960s has not been in the direction of socialism, quite the reverse.

 

[UltraChad]

I linked the proof that they are. Read for comprehension.

Take your own advice, because you literally linked the opposite.

Any change in the Democratic Party since the 1960s has not been in the direction of socialism, quite the reverse.

So yes, you have a pathological need to deny objective reality and say the opposite at every turn. Good luck with your schizophrenic, PCP laced DMT trip.

 

[UltraChad]

They lost by doubling down on their own dogma and interests and ignoring what the rest of the nation wants.

GOP should take note ..... midterms and 2028 are theirs to lose over the next 20~ish months.

 

[Politruk]

Take your own advice, because you literally linked the opposite.



So yes, you have a pathological need to deny objective reality and say the opposite at every turn. Good luck with your schizophrenic, PCP laced DMT trip.

You are the sort who will not only tell me the sky is green, but, if I take you outside at noon on a cloudless day, you will say, "See?! I told you! It's green!"

 

[YDB95]

A neoliberal centralist. Trump is NOT right wing. At heart, he's a transactional pragmatist with a rather traditional centrist view point.

Yeah, no. Trump is for Trump, period.

 

[ditzylildoll]

You are the sort who will not only tell me the sky is green, but, if I take you outside at noon on a cloudless day, you will say, "See?! I told you! It's green!"

The irony is very strong with this comment.

You've been essentially saying that the sky is green throughout this entire thread.

 

[south7eventh]

The TVTropes page on "Political Ideologies" can help us put all this in its proper perspective.

It has sections on:
Liberalism — For Equal Opportunity!
Conservatism — For Tradition and Stability!
Christian Democracy — For God and His people!
Libertarianism — For The Free Market!
Socialism — For Economic Equality!
Social Democracy — For Freedom and Equality!
Marxism — For the International Working Class!
Anarchism — For Absolute Freedom!
Fascism — For Our Nation, Our Leader, and Victory!

Of these, only Socialism, Social Democracy, Marxism and Anarchism* count as "left." Liberalism does not. And you won't find much Socialism, Social Democracy, Marxism or Anarchism in the Democratic Party.

*N.B. Anarchism is not just a more extreme form of American Libertarianism. Anarchism is a European tradition closely associated with Marxism. In a nutshell, Libertarians oppose the state because they see it as a threat to private property, and Anarchists oppose the state because they see it as a guardian of private property. Except for the Anarcho-Capitalists, of whom the less said the better.

Mr P This weekend marks the thirty fifth anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall. The slogan, the only slogan that rang around Checkpoint Charlie at Friedrichstrasse/Zimmerstrasse, was ‘Die Mauer muss weg’ The Wall must fall. WEG!

This was the time and the place for you to be active. The citizens of Berlin, both East and West, had no idea what was going to happen but there were plenty of alternatives on offer among the crowds who took action to physically pull down the wall. Political Nirvana for you.

But I do not think that your arguments today would have received much support from those citizens as every one had a living example of what happens under your preference. What do you think?

 

[icanhelp1]

It's neoliberalism, Trump is also a neoliberal.

A pragmatic neoliberal.

 

[icanhelp1]

Yeah, no. Trump is for Trump, period.

Like usual you’re blinded by TDS.