closed Thread

[butters]

What would be amusing if it weren't so horrifying is that the Israeli people as a whole have deluded themselves into thinking everything is going to be just fine if Hamas surrenders. Butterflies and rainbows and such.

The truth is, Israel's "fuck those civilian casualties' military operations within Gaza has likely radicalized an entire generation of Palestinians, people who had no interest in politics or international affairs until Israel dropped a bomb on their children, their mothers and/or their grandparents, killing them all under the guise of "Israel has a right to exist....you? not so much'

Revenge is a powerful motivation, and I would not be the least bit surprised to see massive numbers of Israeli civilian deaths post-Hamas.

And I'll make a prediction that the illegal West Bank settlers will be the first to suffer.

i am sad to say this seems the most likely scenario.

the kind of carnage, the devastation of livable spaces in Gaza can only ever breed a lasting and bitter resentment. What's even sadder is that the possible resentment these people's parents harboured towards hamas will get lost as Israel becomes the focal reason for their grief and hatred

any notion that Israel is going in as some sort of 'protector' of Palestinians under hamas' yoke is horribly laughable when you see the obliteration of the schools, housing, hospitals, infrastructure... the starving, the wounded, the sick, the words and records of doctors and med staff from all countries confirming the same situation across the board. I am all for protecting one's own country, but not for destroying another's.

 

[Hel_Books]

i am sad to say this seems the most likely scenario.

the kind of carnage, the devastation of livable spaces in Gaza can only ever breed a lasting and bitter resentment. What's even sadder is that the possible resentment these people's parents harboured towards hamas will get lost as Israel becomes the focal reason for their grief and hatred

any notion that Israel is going in as some sort of 'protector' of Palestinians under hamas' yoke is horribly laughable when you see the obliteration of the schools, housing, hospitals, infrastructure... the starving, the wounded, the sick, the words and records of doctors and med staff from all countries confirming the same situation across the board. I am all for protecting one's own country, but not for destroying another's.

Round and round it goes. A bears "resentment" towards B, so A attacks B (without thinking of the "resentment" their attack will breed). B, "resenting" A's attack, attacks A in turn.

Unwinding all this and devising a peace settlement will take a long time and brilliant diplomacy, especially considering the large number of nations in that area and elsewhere with a vested interest in letting the bloodletting continue.

 

[deckardB26354]

Is obstructing humanitarian aid to Hamas the same as obstructing humanitarian aid to Gaza???

Palestinians ≠ Hamas.

 

[Lazaran]

Is obstructing humanitarian aid to Hamas the same as obstructing humanitarian aid to Gaza???

Palestinians ≠ Hamas.

 

[deckardB26354]

Are you thinking on that, or do you disagree?

Here’s something that might help in context: Americans ≠ Trump Supporters/nazis/KKK/Organized crime

 

[coati]

Is obstructing humanitarian aid to Hamas the same as obstructing humanitarian aid to Gaza???

Get off your remote and comfortable perch. Look at the video on current conditions in Gaza.

Once again I ask you, have you ever been a war refugee living in a tent surrounded by rubble?

 

[RobDownSouth]

Israel is officially fucked.

The Biden Administration announced through leaked diplomatic and military channels today that Israel had 30 days to get their act together and cease ALL embargos of humanitarian aid to Gaza, and oh, forget about bombing Lebanon.

If Israel does not comply with American dictates, the United States will halt ALL deliveries of offensive military aid to Israel.

Shit. Just. Got. Real.

Israel's "war cabinet" was apparently split on expanding the Gaza genocide into Lebanon so Biden opted to step in.

This is the beginning of the end for Netanyahu's murderous regime

The fact that a fixed thirty day notice was semi-publicly given to Israel did NOT go unnoticed by Iraq....if Israel doesn't comply with American demands, Iraq can bomb the hell out of Israel 30 days from now and Israel will soon have no offensive capacity to retaliate.

Make no mistake, there will be the potential for catastrophic casualties within Israel should the Israelis decide to "go it alone" as they have often threatened to do in the past. The United States has called their bluff.

Israel of course tried to talk their way out today, engaging in a PR stunt ("Look at us! We're letting in FIFTY trucks of humanitarian aid into Gaza") but it appears to be too little too late.

The United States government has also ordered the Israeli government (!!!!) to cease forced relocation of 150K to 250K Gazans from north Gaza to south Gaza. Don't do it, Bibi. Non-negotiable.

The US also declared that "Humanitarian aid" going forward would be redefined to include "dual use" items, i.e. items typically used by civilians but could also be used by military forces. Israel has blocked the importation of "dual use" items.

Israel had already complained that they have lost "negotiation leverage" with Gaza due to the US demands, but the United States basically responded with "yes, and?"

This is about as hardball as the USA has ever acted towards Israel.

 

[Lazaran]

Get off your remote and comfortable perch. Look at the video on current conditions in Gaza.

Once again I ask you, have you ever been a war refugee living in a tent surrounded by rubble?

Every time I see images from Gaza and am presented with accounts of death and suffering, I get more angry at Hamas, Iran, and Russia, and I am more determined that all their plans and goals are completely blunted by the U.S. and our allies.

 

[Politruk]

Every time I see images from Gaza and am presented with accounts of death and suffering, I get more angry at Hamas, Iran, and Russia, and I am more determined that all their plans and goals are completely blunted by the U.S. and our allies.

Then you are misdirecting the blame.

 

[Lazaran]

Israel is officially fucked.

The Biden Administration announced through leaked diplomatic and military channels today that Israel had 30 days to get their act together and cease ALL embargos of humanitarian aid to Gaza, and oh, forget about bombing Lebanon.

If Israel does not comply with American dictates, the United States will halt ALL deliveries of offensive military aid to Israel.

Shit. Just. Got. Real.

Israel's "war cabinet" was apparently split on expanding the Gaza genocide into Lebanon so Biden opted to step in.

This is the beginning of the end for Netanyahu's murderous regime

The fact that a fixed thirty day notice was semi-publicly given to Israel did NOT go unnoticed by Iraq....if Israel doesn't comply with American demands, Iraq can bomb the hell out of Israel 30 days from now and Israel will soon have no offensive capacity to retaliate.

Make no mistake, there will be the potential for catastrophic casualties within Israel should the Israelis decide to "go it alone" as they have often threatened to do in the past. The United States has called their bluff.

Israel of course tried to talk their way out today, engaging in a PR stunt ("Look at us! We're letting in FIFTY trucks of humanitarian aid into Gaza") but it appears to be too little too late.

The United States government has also ordered the Israeli government (!!!!) to cease forced relocation of 150K to 250K Gazans from north Gaza to south Gaza. Don't do it, Bibi. Non-negotiable.

The US also declared that "Humanitarian aid" going forward would be redefined to include "dual use" items, i.e. items typically used by civilians but could also be used by military forces. Israel has blocked the importation of "dual use" items.

Israel had already complained that they have lost "negotiation leverage" with Gaza due to the US demands, but the United States basically responded with "yes, and?"

This is about as hardball as the USA has ever acted towards Israel.

Um, the U.S. is focused on Iran (I believe you mixed up Iraq and Iran), and is creating a window of geopolitical opportunity for Israel to attack Iran by playing hardball over aid into Gaza, etc, imho. (Iran was always the main bad actor, -along with Russia) If Israel can degrade Iran and Hezbollah to a great extent without suffering significant reciprocal consequences, then that is a major win for the good guys.

Gaza can wait. Hezbollah and Iran cannot wait.

It would probably have been a bit much to ask the U.S. public to accept total war in Gaza while simultaneously backing Israel’s play against Iran and Hezbollah with the THAAD system, etc, so President Biden and Vice President Harris drew a line. And Israel is complying with the terms. Smart - on both sides.

Hamas will not be ignored, however: If Hamas uses some of those “dual-use” items to attack Israel (they undoubtedly will), then Israel and the U.S. will be able to say: “Well, we made an honest effort, and look what Hamas did”. And, ironically, an attack on Iran weakens Hamas indirectly (directly?), so…

The U.S. and Israel are NOT going to "lose the plot" at this critical moment in the larger conflict over some aid shipments into Gaza.

 

[deckardB26354]

I doubt that the US would reverse course and hold back aid.

This is a political stunt and even if they did hold back aid, they’d release the hold after the election (IMO).

 

[coati]

I doubt that the US would reverse course and hold back aid.

This is a political stunt and even if they did hold back aid, they’d release the hold after the election (IMO).

What Biden is doing right now does NOT favor the Democrats in the election. He is doing this because Netanyahu has gone off the rails with his so-called "collateral damage" to civilians. When you cause displaced people to die in refugee camps by blocking humanitarian aid, the damage to civilians is no longer ""collateral"-- it is direct.

Like Putin, Netanyahu wants Trump to be elected, because that would favor his military objectives. One might think that Putin and Netanyahu are strange political bedfellows with regard to messing in American politics, but BOTH have said "Fuck the Geneva Conventions, and fuck all future opportunities for diplomatic solutions. We don't care if we extend our conflict into the next seven generations".

 

[Politruk]

Hamas will not be ignored, however:

Does Hamas even exist at this point?

 

[RobDownSouth]

Reading today's Washington Post, it appears that Israel has seriously overplayed their hand in North Gaza.

Since October 1st, Israel has prohibited ANY importation of ANY food into northern Gaza.
The United States views this as a textbook definition of a "war crime".

Israel's only solution offered is for starving Gazans who live in north Gaza to relocate to south Gaza, presumably to allow the Israeli military to raze property in northern Gaza and bomb heavily populated centers in south Gaza as part of Israel's yearlong genocidal campaign against Gaza.

This is a clear violation of The Arms Export Control Act, in which the President has to certify that arms exports must be consistent with the rules of war, which Israel has clearly flouted for over a year now. The executive branch held their nose and certified Israel was complying back in June, to which the Israeli government responded with a food blockade, which overwhelmingly affects civilians.

The Arms Export Control Act is the sole province of the Executive branch, Congress cannot modify it before next year and likely lacks the votes to do so, and the Supreme Court may not involve itself in matters of foreign policy. The decision rests solely with the Executive branch.

The US has dictated that Israel allow 350 food relief trucks into Gaza DAILY, Israel has so far responded with ONE 50 truck convoy and is whining that food will be confiscated by "Palestinian gangsters".

Netanyahu has "promised" that any Israeli military response will be limited to Iranian military sites, NOT Iranian nuclear development sites or export pipelines. Should Israel disrupt Iranian oil pipelines, it is expected that the price of oil would rise somewhere between 50 and 100% immediately, and the sticker shock at American gas pumps would likely be the real "October Surprise" expected to be used by the Trump campaign in the upcoming elections.

Netanyahu has a long history of making and breaking promises.

Oh, and the United States has demanded that Israel recognize the USNWRA relief agency as a valid foreign aid organization within Gaza. The United States recognizes there may be a dozen or so Hamas operatives working for USNWRA, but that small number does not justify banning the 10,000+ relief worker from Gaza.

It will be fascinating watching headstrong country of Israel "bend the knee" to its primary benefactor the United States in the upcoming months. I anticipate some sort of major distraction that Israel will use for non-compliance.

Side note: anyone else notice Israel has begun using the terms "Palestinian" and "Hamas" interchangeably of late?

 

[lessOHmo]

GOT HIM​

https://www.offthepress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/GaGLZaJWsAAu9Jl-875x585-c-default.webp

ISRAEL THINKS IT KILLED HAMAS CHIEF​

 

[Politruk]

Does Hamas even exist at this point?

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Does Hamas even exist at this point?

The hostages are still being held, but with Sinwar dead hopefully the few remaining members of Hamas will come to their senses and release them unharmed so this bloodshed can end.

 

[Rightguide]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1846953248462450871

Image may be a little better

 

[deckardB26354]

Reported.

 

[deckardB26354]

The hostages are still being held, but with Sinwar dead hopefully the few remaining members of Hamas will come to their senses and release them unharmed so this bloodshed can end.

YEP! Sound the trumpets! It’s all over folks!

Send in the bulldozers and architects—it’s time to build Tel Aviv SOUTH!

Yeah, I’m sure Hamas is packing up to leave at this very moment.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

YEP! Sound the trumpets! It’s all over folks!

Send in the bulldozers and architects—it’s time to build Tel Aviv SOUTH!

Yeah, I’m sure Hamas is packing up to leave at this very moment.

It won't be over until the hostages are all home safe and sound and Hezbollah stops firing missiles from Lebanon.

The death of Sinwar doesn't automatically make things all better, but a major obstacle to peace has been eliminated.

 

[Politruk]

YEP! Sound the trumpets! It’s all over folks!

Send in the bulldozers and architects—it’s time to build Tel Aviv SOUTH!

Yeah, I’m sure Hamas is packing up to leave at this very moment.

At some point, the bulldozers and architects will have to go in.

Everything will have to be rebuilt.

And the Israelis should pay for that, not the Pals.

 

[Lazaran]

The hostages are still being held, but with Sinwar dead hopefully the few remaining members of Hamas will come to their senses and release them unharmed so this bloodshed can end.

Sadly, the Russians and Iranians (etc) who are financing Hamas, etc, still need the distraction, disruption, and geopolitical benefits that Hamas’ genicidal actions against Israel and their own people in Gaza provides.

The new "Palestinian leadership" of Hamas will do exactly what they have been doing as long as the Russians and Iranians, etc, tell them to, imho. They are just playing their minor part in a much grander evil plan with much larger players.

 

[deckardB26354]

It won't be over until the hostages are all home safe and sound and Hezbollah stops firing missiles from Lebanon.

The death of Sinwar doesn't automatically make things all better, but a major obstacle to peace has been eliminated.

So you really don’t think that there’s some asshole in Hamasland waiting in the wings that says, “Sldfjwoij is dead, I can do waaay better than he did!”

You’re kidding yourself.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

At some point, the bulldozers and architects will have to go in.

Everything will have to be rebuilt.

And the Israelis should pay for that, not the Pals.

One benefit of having Israel rebuild Gaza is that they will make sure the aid actually goes to the Gazan people instead of being stolen to enrich the Hamas leadership and build terror tunnels stocked with arms.