closed Thread

[icanhelp1]

Leave it to you to completely miss a point. Moron.

Your point was a moronic one. If the Ukrainians had the military capacity to bomb schools, hospitals and other civilian targets they would!! That's what happens when you attack another sovereign nation and kill civilians, it's called WAR!! and war is hell! People die! It happened in Germany, it happened in Vietnam, it happened in Iraq and it's happening now.

 

[Politruk]

So, you feel that Russian unprovoked attacks on civilian targets that if Ukrainians responded in kind they'd be wrong. You can't have it both ways.

This is more like, Chechen terrorists set off a bomb in a Moscow subway, and then Putin sends in the army and stomps Chechnya flat.

 

[icanhelp1]

This is more like, Chechen terrorists set off a bomb in a Moscow subway, and then Putin sends in the army and stomps Chechnya flat.

Not even close. Hamas is a terrorist organization that has a substantial military structure ( 5 highly trained battalions ). Palestinians elected Hamas leadership and own some responsibility for what their elected leadership did. It's unfortunate that Hamas uses innocence as shields. As the Israelis continue to disarm the Hamas militants Hamas continues to arbitrarily lob missiles at Israelis civilians. What Hamas did is nothing short of a declaration of war and crimes against humanity. Hamas could end this today, if they lay down their weapons, release the hostages and agree to a cease fire, this ends. During asymmetrical warfare where innocent civilians are used as human shields innocent people die. Commanders can try to isolate combatants from civilians but commanders shouldn't take unreasonable levels of casualties because of it, that tactic plays right into the hands of the terrorist. IMHO

 

[ll74]

Not even close. Hamas is a terrorist organization that has a substantial military structure ( 5 highly trained battalions ). Palestinians elected Hamas leadership and own some responsibility for what their elected leadership did

Why can't you acknowledge that the elections were held over a decade ago?

I admit that they have gained support recently, but before October 7, Hamas was in the wrong side of support with Palestinians...which is an important fact

 

[icanhelp1]

Why can't you acknowledge that the elections were held over a decade ago?

I can, but what has changed since then? There was a working cease fire and Hamas chose to violate the cease fire, not only violate it but commit crimes against humanity. Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis and Iran continue with naked aggression again the Israelis civilian populace. If Hamas dropped their weapons the onslaught would end and rebuilding could begin.

I admit that they have gained support recently, but before October 7, Hamas was in the wrong side of support with Palestinians...which is an important fact

It's unfortunate but as long as the above continue lobbing missiles people will die on both sides. To categorize the Israeli response to naked aggression as genocide is just plain inaccurate. To expect Israelis Commanders to take unnecessary casualties to appease political opinion is just plain irresponsible. What is rarely shared with the average reader is that because the attacks by Hezbollah, Hamas, Iran and the Houthis have for the most part been ineffective, let's be clear it's not for lack of trying to complete a genocide of their own. That is a clearly stated goal of all of the above.

 

[ll74]

I can, but what has changed since then?

Are you seriously saying that a decade of time doesn't result in changes? Do you still hold the same perspective as you did a decade ago?

There was a working cease fire and Hamas chose to violate the cease fire, not only violate it but commit crimes against humanity. Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis and Iran continue with naked aggression again the Israelis civilian populace. If Hamas dropped their weapons the onslaught would end and rebuilding could begin.

It's unfortunate but as long as the above continue lobbing missiles people will die on both sides. To categorize the Israeli response to naked aggression as genocide is just plain inaccurate. To expect Israelis Commanders to take unnecessary casualties to appease political opinion is just plain irresponsible. What is rarely shared with the average reader is that because the attacks by Hezbollah, Hamas, Iran and the Houthis have for the most part been ineffective, let's be clear it's not for lack of trying to complete a genocide of their own. That is a clearly stated goal of all of the above.

You oversimplify things too much.

I expect combatants to make decisions that don't endanger civilians. I absolutely believe Hamas has ignored this. I absolutely agree that Israel should defend itself.

But I also don't throw out something from more than a decade ago and expect any party to align with that perspective...because that's just a way to obfuscate and demean their position

 

[ShandyLeer]

The situation may change after the U.S. election if Harris is elected. A lot of people here are fed up with Netanyahu's arrogance. Harris can't address this now, but would have pressure to address it if elected.

If Trump is elected, Netanyahu would have free reign to conduct his wars any way he desires.

Well Harris would be wise not to lean too heavily in favour of what, ultimately, is the Iranian mullahs cause.

Why don’t the Iranians, the Arabs - including Palestinians themselves - just leave Israel the fuck alone? It’s a glaringly obvious question I know, but one that the Palestinian flag wavers seem to struggle with.

 

[icanhelp1]

Are you seriously saying that a decade of time doesn't result in changes? Do you still hold the same perspective as you did a decade ago?


You oversimplify things too much.

I expect combatants to make decisions that don't endanger civilians. I absolutely believe Hamas has ignored this. I absolutely agree that Israel should defend itself.

But I also don't throw out something from more than a decade ago and expect any party to align with that perspective...because that's just a way to obfuscate and demean their position

It's a very complex issue that can't be solved on a porn site. Simply put, Iran wants total destruction of Israel and are content to expedite this goal using the Houthis, Hamas and Hezbollah. I don't believe what happened a decade ago matters much. Destroy or overturn, one way or another, the theocracy that exist in Iran and I believe the hatred is diminished and the killing stops. Iran returns to a more pro-western secular culture.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Why can't you acknowledge that the elections were held over a decade ago?

I admit that they have gained support recently, but before October 7, Hamas was in the wrong side of support with Palestinians...which is an important fact

What would be amusing if it weren't so horrifying is that the Israeli people as a whole have deluded themselves into thinking everything is going to be just fine if Hamas surrenders. Butterflies and rainbows and such.

The truth is, Israel's "fuck those civilian casualties' military operations within Gaza has likely radicalized an entire generation of Palestinians, people who had no interest in politics or international affairs until Israel dropped a bomb on their children, their mothers and/or their grandparents, killing them all under the guise of "Israel has a right to exist....you? not so much'

Revenge is a powerful motivation, and I would not be the least bit surprised to see massive numbers of Israeli civilian deaths post-Hamas.

And I'll make a prediction that the illegal West Bank settlers will be the first to suffer.

 

[ll74]

It's a very complex issue that can't be solved on a porn site. Simply put, Iran wants total destruction of Israel and are content to expedite this goal using the Houthis, Hamas and Hezbollah. I don't believe what happened a decade ago matters much. Destroy or overturn, one way or another, the theocracy that exist in Iran and I believe the hatred is diminished and the killing stops. Iran returns to a more pro-western secular culture.

So you admit that Palestinians of today DID NOT elect Hamas leadership?

And if you believe what happened then doesn't matter much, then why do you keep bringing it up?

 

[coati]

Well Harris would be wise not to lean too heavily in favour of what, ultimately, is the Iranian mullahs cause.

Why don’t the Iranians, the Arabs - including Palestinians themselves - just leave Israel the fuck alone? It’s a glaringly obvious question I know, but one that the Palestinian flag wavers seem to struggle with.

Harris's goal would be to get Israel's leadership to abide by the Geneva Conventions and respect the diplomatic efforts of its allies. The USA has some leverage and should use it. Netanyahu has crapped on the USA's diplomatic and humanitarian efforts so far.

Your second paragraph poses a question that continues to be buried by the bloody ravages of a very long conflict.

 

[Lance_Castro]

Bunch of old men in suburban america speaking with authority about the middle east.

Hilarious!

 

[contrifan32]

What would be amusing if it weren't so horrifying is that the Israeli people as a whole have deluded themselves into thinking everything is going to be just fine if Hamas surrenders. Butterflies and rainbows and such.

The truth is, Israel's "fuck those civilian casualties' military operations within Gaza has likely radicalized an entire generation of Palestinians, people who had no interest in politics or international affairs until Israel dropped a bomb on their children, their mothers and/or their grandparents, killing them all under the guise of "Israel has a right to exist....you? not so much'

Revenge is a powerful motivation, and I would not be the least bit surprised to see massive numbers of Israeli civilian deaths post-Hamas.

And I'll make a prediction that the illegal West Bank settlers will be the first to suffer.

Right Robbie, because there is a future for ones family living in a dense concrete no mans land, supporting the radical terrorists that hang out in tunnels under your hospitals and mosques, who openly vow to kill men women and children of the technically superior country (next to your hovel) that has the regions elite army, air force, intelligence services (not to mention weapons) all because they worship a different God.

Your quote above just confirms what we all know about you.

 

[lessOHmo]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1845924967193657732

 

[deckardB26354]

What would be amusing if it weren't so horrifying is that the Israeli people as a whole have deluded themselves into thinking everything is going to be just fine if Hamas surrenders. Butterflies and rainbows and such.

The truth is, Israel's "fuck those civilian casualties' military operations within Gaza has likely radicalized an entire generation of Palestinians, people who had no interest in politics or international affairs until Israel dropped a bomb on their children, their mothers and/or their grandparents, killing them all under the guise of "Israel has a right to exist....you? not so much'

Well said. I’ve been saying this since before 10/7 happened. I kept reading story after story about the abuse that the Palestinians have to endure by living in what is essentially an occupied country. Yes, there is enough blame to go around for everyone, but all of the pushing by the Israelis to people at checkpoints, the harassment by settlers and outright attacks eventually wear the Palestinians down—and that leads to aggression.

Hamas can certainly share in the blame. What supporters of Israel here (and in other conversations that I’ve had IRL) refuse to acknowledge is that if you’re Palestinian, you’re not automatically Hamas. I’ve had discussions with Israeli friends (and therefore IDF veterans) that were applauding the deaths as hospitals and homes were bombed into oblivion by Israel. When I’d ask about the lost of innocent lives—including children—not a single fuck was given because 10/7 justified every act of violence. Disgusting.

A couple of times I was confronted with, “well, they elected Hamas and put them into power.” Well that’s like blaming every American for electing Trump in 2016–it’s a stupid argument.

Revenge is a powerful motivation, and I would not be the least bit surprised to see massive numbers of Israeli civilian deaths post-Hamas.

And I'll make a prediction that the illegal West Bank settlers will be the first to suffer.

I don’t know if I agree with that assessment, but I will say that this is some serious Hatfields & McCoys feud type shit here and it’s not going to just go away because Hamas does. It’ll be replaced by the same type of crap—instead of Hamas or the PLO, they’ll call it the Super Happy Funtime Government and it won’t matter.

I don’t doubt that the West Bank will be on the menu next because there’s nothing left of Gaza to worry about.

 

[coati]

The Biden administration announced today that military aid to Israel will be restricted unless Israel stops obstructing humanitarian aid to Gaza.

 

[Politruk]

I don’t know if I agree with that assessment, but I will say that this is some serious Hatfields & McCoys feud type shit here

Flashing on
Huckleberry Finn:

Soon as I could get Buck down by the corn-cribs under the trees by ourselves, I says:

“Did you want to kill him, Buck?”

“Well, I bet I did.”

“What did he do to you?”

“Him? He never done nothing to me.”

“Well, then, what did you want to kill him for?”

“Why, nothing—only it’s on account of the feud.”

“What’s a feud?”

“Why, where was you raised? Don’t you know what a feud is?”

“Never heard of it before—tell me about it.”

“Well,” says Buck, “a feud is this way. A man has a quarrel with another man, and kills him; then that other man’s brother kills him; then the other brothers, on both sides, goes for one another; then the cousins chip in—and by-and-by everybody’s killed off, and there ain’t no more feud. But it’s kind of slow, and takes a long time.”

“Has this one been going on long, Buck?”

“Well, I should reckon! It started thirty year ago, or som’ers along there. There was trouble ’bout something, and then a lawsuit to settle it; and the suit went agin one of the men, and so he up and shot the man that won the suit—which he would naturally do, of course. Anybody would.”

“What was the trouble about, Buck?—land?”

“I reckon maybe—I don’t know.”

“Well, who done the shooting? Was it a Grangerford or a Shepherdson?”

“Laws, how do I know? It was so long ago.”

“Don’t anybody know?”

“Oh, yes, pa knows, I reckon, and some of the other old people; but they don’t know now what the row was about in the first place.”

 

[Lazaran]

The Biden administration announced today that military aid to Israel will be restricted unless Israel stops obstructing humanitarian aid to Gaza.

Is obstructing humanitarian aid to Hamas the same as obstructing humanitarian aid to Gaza???

 

[Politruk]

Is obstructing humanitarian aid to Hamas the same as obstructing humanitarian aid to Gaza???

Not really.

 

[butters]

What would be amusing if it weren't so horrifying is that the Israeli people as a whole have deluded themselves into thinking everything is going to be just fine if Hamas surrenders. Butterflies and rainbows and such.

The truth is, Israel's "fuck those civilian casualties' military operations within Gaza has likely radicalized an entire generation of Palestinians, people who had no interest in politics or international affairs until Israel dropped a bomb on their children, their mothers and/or their grandparents, killing them all under the guise of "Israel has a right to exist....you? not so much'

Revenge is a powerful motivation, and I would not be the least bit surprised to see massive numbers of Israeli civilian deaths post-Hamas.

And I'll make a prediction that the illegal West Bank settlers will be the first to suffer.

i am sad to say this seems the most likely scenario.

the kind of carnage, the devastation of livable spaces in Gaza can only ever breed a lasting and bitter resentment. What's even sadder is that the possible resentment these people's parents harboured towards hamas will get lost as Israel becomes the focal reason for their grief and hatred

any notion that Israel is going in as some sort of 'protector' of Palestinians under hamas' yoke is horribly laughable when you see the obliteration of the schools, housing, hospitals, infrastructure... the starving, the wounded, the sick, the words and records of doctors and med staff from all countries confirming the same situation across the board. I am all for protecting one's own country, but not for destroying another's.

 

[Hel_Books]

i am sad to say this seems the most likely scenario.

the kind of carnage, the devastation of livable spaces in Gaza can only ever breed a lasting and bitter resentment. What's even sadder is that the possible resentment these people's parents harboured towards hamas will get lost as Israel becomes the focal reason for their grief and hatred

any notion that Israel is going in as some sort of 'protector' of Palestinians under hamas' yoke is horribly laughable when you see the obliteration of the schools, housing, hospitals, infrastructure... the starving, the wounded, the sick, the words and records of doctors and med staff from all countries confirming the same situation across the board. I am all for protecting one's own country, but not for destroying another's.

Round and round it goes. A bears "resentment" towards B, so A attacks B (without thinking of the "resentment" their attack will breed). B, "resenting" A's attack, attacks A in turn.

Unwinding all this and devising a peace settlement will take a long time and brilliant diplomacy, especially considering the large number of nations in that area and elsewhere with a vested interest in letting the bloodletting continue.

 

[deckardB26354]

Is obstructing humanitarian aid to Hamas the same as obstructing humanitarian aid to Gaza???

Palestinians ≠ Hamas.

 

[Lazaran]

Is obstructing humanitarian aid to Hamas the same as obstructing humanitarian aid to Gaza???

Palestinians ≠ Hamas.

 

[deckardB26354]

Are you thinking on that, or do you disagree?

Here’s something that might help in context: Americans ≠ Trump Supporters/nazis/KKK/Organized crime

 

[coati]

Is obstructing humanitarian aid to Hamas the same as obstructing humanitarian aid to Gaza???

Get off your remote and comfortable perch. Look at the video on current conditions in Gaza.

Once again I ask you, have you ever been a war refugee living in a tent surrounded by rubble?