Below the belt

[BrightShinyGirl]

Sooo much bias coming from you. The girls died in a massacre bullet ridden car, so did the paramedics that came to save them. This has been independently verified. They did nothing to deserve that awful prolonged terrifying death, and if you can entertain the notion that the whole war in Gaza, each individual act of barbarism, is a single act of justified retribution against Iranian state sponsored terrorism, then you really are a lost cause.

Kfir and Ariel Bibas have been subject to nonstop terror for over a year. They did nothing to deserve being taken hostage. Thankfully they still appear to be alive. Let’s hope the IDF reaches them soon.

 

[Lazaran]

Sooo much bias coming from you. The girls died in a massacre bullet ridden car, so did the paramedics that came to save them. This has been independently verified. They did nothing to deserve that awful prolonged terrifying death, and if you can entertain the notion that the whole war in Gaza, each individual act of barbarism, is a single act of justified retribution against Iranian state sponsored terrorism, then you really are a lost cause.

You nor I know anything for certain about the circumstances surrounding any isolated killing in Gaza, because Gaza is a free journalism black hole at the moment.

I do know for certain what happened on 10/7, because the Hamas terrorists filmed it themselves.

 

[Winter_Fare]

You nor I know anything for certain about the circumstances surrounding any isolated killing in Gaza, because Gaza is a free journalism black hole at the moment.

I do know for certain what happened on 10/7, because the Hamas terrorists filmed it themselves.

Gaza is a free journalism black hole... Do you ever listen to yourself?!
theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/21/israel-idf-accused-targeting-journalists-gaza

 

[Winter_Fare]

Kfir and Ariel Bibas have been subject to nonstop terror for over a year. They did nothing to deserve being taken hostage. Thankfully they still appear to be alive. Let’s hope the IDF reaches them soon.

You are an intelligent person. Can you see how targeting journalists and children, and flattening whole hospitals and city blocks makes it less likely for the hostages to be released/found/rescued alive? And less likely for the international community to continue to support Israel?

 

[Lazaran]

Gaza is a free journalism black hole... Do you ever listen to yourself?!
theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/21/israel-idf-accused-targeting-journalists-gaza

That isn’t helping your argument. (You didn’t manage to post your link, btw.)

There is no free journalism in Gaza and there was no free journalism in Gaza.

Hamas controls information in Gaza like Putin and Xi control information.

 

[Winter_Fare]

That isn’t helping your argument. (You didn’t manage to post your link, btw.)

There is no free journalism in Gaza and there was no free journalism in Gaza.

Hamas controls information in Gaza like Putin and Xi control information.

No, journalists from many different countries and news outlets have been killed, not just Al-Jazeera

 

[Lazaran]

No, journalists from many different countries and news outlets have been killed, not just Al-Jazeera

The only way a "journalist" would be allowed to report in Gaza, is if they are sympathetic to Hamas and the Palestinian cause; full stop.

 

[Winter_Fare]

The only way a "journalist" would be allowed to report in Gaza, is if they are sympathetic to Hamas and the Palestinian cause; full stop.

And you know this because...

 

[Lazaran]

And you know this because...

Because Hamas…

 

[Lance_Castro]

There are more Jews in the USA than Israel.

Why not just call Nevada Israel and give Israel back to the Arabs?

I mean there’s way more Arabs in the Middle East than Jews… you’d think that after 5,000 years of being hunted like rats the Jews would be happy to make a real, safe home in the USA.

 

[Winter_Fare]

Because Hamas…

Morally bankrupt argument with zero credibility. Over a hundred journalists deliberately targeted by idf, including a woman shot through the neck, and somehow, it's still all Hamas? Pathetic. Laughable.

 

[Lazaran]

Morally bankrupt argument with zero credibility. Over a hundred journalists deliberately targeted by idf, including a woman shot through the neck, and somehow, it's still all Hamas? Pathetic. Laughable.

You are assigning them the honorific title of "journalists", while I am doing no such thing.



You are also assuming / assigning a verified circumstance / cause of death for the "journalists", the children getting shot in the head, and the girl in the car and the ambulance, while I am not accepting anything as verified.



10/7 was verified by Hamas filming their own sick exploits.

 

[Winter_Fare]

You are assigning them the honorific title of "journalists", while I am doing no such thing.



You are also assuming / assigning a verified circumstance / cause of death for the "journalists", the children getting shot in the head, and the girl in the car and the ambulance, while I am not accepting anything as verified.



10/7 was verified by Hamas filming their own sick exploits.

10/7 was an atrocity, you'll get no denial of that from me.

I guess nothing Israel does wrong will be verified for you until Israel is the only party left standing. What galls me the most is the constant exceptionalism. Israel lost a thousand civilians so they have the right to turn their neighbours into a smoking crater? What about Sudan? Ethiopia? Bosnia? Ukraine? Georgia? What makes Israel the only country with the right to literally exterminate their enemies? To ignore the sovereignty of other countries assassinating people and terrorising civilians? I'm not holding my breath for an intelligent answer based on your arguments so far.

 

[Winter_Fare]

You are assigning them the honorific title of "journalists", while I am doing no such thing.

You are also assuming / assigning a verified circumstance / cause of death for the "journalists",

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shireen_Abu_Akleh
Verified

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

There are more Jews in the USA than Israel.

Why not just call Nevada Israel and give Israel back to the Arabs?

I mean there’s way more Arabs in the Middle East than Jews… you’d think that after 5,000 years of being hunted like rats the Jews would be happy to make a real, safe home in the USA.

Because the Jews have lived in Israel continuously for thousands of years. They survived after Arabs invaded in 650AD and they survived when the Turks and the British took over from the Arabs as colonizers.

The Palestinian Arabs want to return to how things were 100 years ago when they had the whip hand and could threaten and harass the Jews with impunity.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

You are an intelligent person. Can you see how targeting journalists and children, and flattening whole hospitals and city blocks makes it less likely for the hostages to be released/found/rescued alive? And less likely for the international community to continue to support Israel?

The international community has continually sided with Hamas and Hezbollah ever since they attacked Israel without provocation a year ago. UN aid workers took part in the rape and murders on October 7th. UN peacekeepers in Lebanon did nothing to stop the relentless missile barrage that forced the evacuation of northern Israel.

Israel knows that, except for the United States, the world is against them. No matter how much care the IDF takes with protecting civilian lives, Israel will still be accused of committing genocide.

 

[Lazaran]

10/7 was an atrocity, you'll get no denial of that from me.

I guess nothing Israel does wrong will be verified for you until Israel is the only party left standing. What galls me the most is the constant exceptionalism. Israel lost a thousand civilians so they have the right to turn their neighbours into a smoking crater? What about Sudan? Ethiopia? Bosnia? Ukraine? Georgia? What makes Israel the only country with the right to literally exterminate their enemies? To ignore the sovereignty of other countries assassinating people and terrorising civilians? I'm not holding my breath for an intelligent answer based on your arguments so far.

You are making appeals to emotion in an attempt to persuade.



And I get it. Having no better plan to secure the release of the hostages without capitulating to Hamas, and with no better plan to degrade and eliminate Hamas sans a less kinetic door to door sweep of Gaza that would ensure the deaths of thousands upon thousands of IDF soldiers (what Hamas was hoping for?) people are left to second guess Israel’s (and the United States’) approach to the crisis. What. Is. Your. Plan. ???

The U.S. had a ceasefire plan, but Hamas (and Egypt) rejected it because they wouldn’t retain control of the Philadelphi smuggling corridor between Gaza and Egypt, and because Hamas wouldn’t be allowed to remain armed and in power. (After 10/7, does anybody believe Israel is going to tolerate ANY armed terrorist group on their border???) That decision by Hamas to reject the U.S. brokered ceasefire plan (and 10/7, of course) has resulted in the destruction of Gaza - and now, Lebanon (and maybe Iran?).

Hamas and Hezbollah and the Houthis and Iran and Russia chose poorly.

 

[Lazaran]

The international community has continually sided with Hamas and Hezbollah ever since they attacked Israel without provocation a year ago. UN aid workers took part in the rape and murders on October 7th. UN peacekeepers in Lebanon did nothing to stop the relentless missile barrage that forced the evacuation of northern Israel.

Israel knows that, except for the United States, the world is against them. No matter how much care the IDF takes with protecting civilian lives, Israel will still be accused of committing genocide.

And the "journalists" in Gaza are Hamas, etc, affiliated.

https://honestreporting.com/who-are...ts-affiliated-with-palestinian-terror-groups/

 

[Winter_Fare]

Nothing to say about Shireen Abu Akleh? Nothing to say about how they bulldozed her memorial?

I'm not appealing to emotions, I'm stating the fact that other countries seems to be able to deal with enemies using a less.... Exponential scale of retaliation. Certainly this has been the most deadly conflict for children in my lifetime.

I had a read further back in the thread, I can see you have your mind made up. So is mine I guess. The state of Israel set themselves up to fail in the first place with their illegal expansion and dehumanisation of Arabs, including sniping kids to death, taking out their knees, blinding and crippling them. Hate breeds hate.

 

[Winter_Fare]

The international community has continually sided with Hamas and Hezbollah ever since they attacked Israel without provocation a year ago. UN aid workers took part in the rape and murders on October 7th. UN peacekeepers in Lebanon did nothing to stop the relentless missile barrage that forced the evacuation of northern Israel.

Israel knows that, except for the United States, the world is against them. No matter how much care the IDF takes with protecting civilian lives, Israel will still be accused of committing genocide.

What? We're all still selling arms and drones to Israel! Politicians talk a good game, nobody has sanctioned Israel.

 

[Winter_Fare]

And the "journalists" in Gaza are Hamas, etc, affiliated.

https://honestreporting.com/who-are...ts-affiliated-with-palestinian-terror-groups/

And that makes them legitimate targets? For snipers and air strikes? They're still non combatants protected under international law. You don't get to define who is or isn't a journalist. There are laws. Israel is systematically breaking them.

 

[Plathfan]

And that makes them legitimate targets? For snipers and air strikes? They're still non combatants protected under international law. You don't get to define who is or isn't a journalist. There are laws. Israel is systematically breaking them.

Are you related to Abu Obaida? You sound like the Hamas spokesman. Did you know they classify 17 to 19-year-old militants as "children"? Not that it would matter to you if you did...

Better save some of that fake whining for later, because it’s going to take years... and they haven’t even started paying for 10/7.

 

[Lazaran]

And that makes them legitimate targets? For snipers and air strikes? They're still non combatants protected under international law. You don't get to define who is or isn't a journalist. There are laws. Israel is systematically breaking them.

Um, it makes them NOT “journalists”, and it makes their "journalism" totally suspect.



And it certainly removes any protections afforded to legitimate members of the free press.

 

[Politruk]

Leaving aside the war, this particular op with the explosive pagers is a bad business, and some Mossad agents need to suffer for it, if not hang from lampposts. Israel needs its own Church Committee hearings.

 

[Winter_Fare]

Um, it makes them NOT “journalists”, and it makes their "journalism" totally suspect.



And it certainly removes any protections afforded to legitimate members of the free press.

That's a load of rubbish. An enemy journalist is still a journalist. You're literally making shit up.