closed Thread

[Hel_Books]

I'm new here. Just signed up, submitted my first story, which is still pending. So I wandered around to the discussion groups.

I've been thinking about the centuries, millennia, in fact, that the nations of Europe slaughtered each other before peace finally came. Mostly, anyway. There are still troubles in the Balkans and the eastern edges (Georgia, Ukraine).

Will peace in the Middle East come only after an apocalyptic struggle of the magnitude of both World Wars? Many deaths, many people uprooted, borders rearranged.

Think of how the aggressors, especially Germany, lost territory when it was all said and done. Looking back on it, it would have made sense in 1914 to follow the road of peace.

Lessons for our modern world.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

No need to ___splain it for me, I know the history.

Yes, there is no genocide happening in Gaza. Just like there was no genocide happening in North America. The Trail of Tears, the Sand Creek Massacre, et. al weren’t actual acts of genocide—just a thinning out of the herd. Just like what’s happening in Gaza. They’re not being forced into gas chambers, but in its own sick way that was more “humane” than letting people starve to death, die from lack of medical facilities (because the boogeyman Hamas was hiding there, so BOOM), and using women and children as sniper practice.

Also, you’re telling me that the property lines laid out by treaty haven’t been breached? That Jewish settlers are forcing people out of their homes claiming it’s theirs “just cuz”? Sorry, but I’m not buying your explanation of “Arabs being unwilling to tolerate Jewish self-rule”—whatever the hell that means.

You don't need to go back to American history. There are real genocides going on right now in Sudan and Bangladesh. But there are no marches against them, because they can't be used to attack Israel.

The Arabs hate the Jews the way white racists hate blacks--because they want to return to the way things were 100 years when the Arabs were the masters of the the Jews were inferior. The existence of a free democratic Israel is a blot of on the dream of Pan-Arabism.

 

[Deleted member 4038640]

Israel has a long history of leaving Gaza alone. They're only fighting there now because the October 7th and the remaining hostages being held.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

I'm new here. Just signed up, submitted my first story, which is still pending. So I wandered around to the discussion groups.

I've been thinking about the centuries, millennia, in fact, that the nations of Europe slaughtered each other before peace finally came. Mostly, anyway. There are still troubles in the Balkans and the eastern edges (Georgia, Ukraine).

Will peace in the Middle East come only after an apocalyptic struggle of the magnitude of both World Wars? Many deaths, many people uprooted, borders rearranged.

Think of how the aggressors, especially Germany, lost territory when it was all said and done. Looking back on it, it would have made sense in 1914 to follow the road of peace.

Lessons for our modern world.

Welcome to the message board. Peace will come to the Middle East when the Arabs give up their dream of exterminating the Jews.

 

[Lazaran]

You don't need to go back to American history. There are real genocides going on right now in Sudan and Bangladesh. But there are no marches against them, because they can't be used to attack Israel.

The Arabs hate the Jews the way white racists hate blacks--because they want to return to the way things were 100 years when the Arabs were the masters of the the Jews were inferior. The existence of a free democratic Israel is a blot of on the dream of Pan-Arabism.

There are some inconvenient truths in that comment.

“Some people” have to deal with those inconvenient truths.

 

[deckardB26354]

You don't need to go back to American history. There are real genocides going on right now in Sudan and Bangladesh. But there are no marches against them, because they can't be used to attack Israel.

Yes, I agree that there are attempts at genocide happening in Sudan and Bangladesh—and probably in places like Darfur and Nepal. More attention should be paid to these places to save human lives—something the UN should be seeing to as their forces should be acting to defend these people.

However, I don’t see US taxpayer funds going to support any of the militaries connected to these atrocities in the making—Israel received billions yearly.

The Arabs hate the Jews the way white racists hate blacks--because they want to return to the way things were 100 years when the Arabs were the masters of the the Jews were inferior. The existence of a free democratic Israel is a blot of on the dream of Pan-Arabism.

The hatred you’re referencing is everywhere. Yes, whites hate blacks and blacks hate whites—but only certain people keep this going. Media organizations do their best to keep the hate flowing. Not every white hates every black and vice versa. The same goes for Arab/Jew hatred. I know Jews that hate any Palestinian full stop—and I know some that understand the conflict and keep the hate at bay.

Please don’t misunderstand me…I support Israel’s right to protect itself. I also do the same for Palestine, but I don’t see any military aid rushing into Gaza and the West Bank. To me, I feel like I’m watching a schoolyard fight with the entire football team beating the shit out of the math club. Netanyahu is a hating bully that keeps yelling “never forget” about the holocaust, without seeing that he’s committing the same types of crimes against humanity that were inflicted upon his people in Germany in the 1930’s.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Yes, I agree that there are attempts at genocide happening in Sudan and Bangladesh—and probably in places like Darfur and Nepal. More attention should be paid to these places to save human lives—something the UN should be seeing to as their forces should be acting to defend these people.

However, I don’t see US taxpayer funds going to support any of the militaries connected to these atrocities in the making—Israel received billions yearly.



The hatred you’re referencing is everywhere. Yes, whites hate blacks and blacks hate whites—but only certain people keep this going. Media organizations do their best to keep the hate flowing. Not every white hates every black and vice versa. The same goes for Arab/Jew hatred. I know Jews that hate any Palestinian full stop—and I know some that understand the conflict and keep the hate at bay.

Please don’t misunderstand me…I support Israel’s right to protect itself. I also do the same for Palestine, but I don’t see any military aid rushing into Gaza and the West Bank. To me, I feel like I’m watching a schoolyard fight with the entire football team beating the shit out of the math club. Netanyahu is a hating bully that keeps yelling “never forget” about the holocaust, without seeing that he’s committing the same types of crimes against humanity that were inflicted upon his people in Germany in the 1930’s.

Hamas doesn't protect the Palestinian people. It uses them as human shields, brutalizes them, and steals their humanitarian aid. Nevertheless, they're amply supplied with military aid from Arab states who use them as a catspaw to attack Israel.

That's why it's imperative for Israel's safety that it doesn't relinquish control of the Philadelphi corridor and allow Egypt to reopen the arms smuggling pipeline into Gaza.

 

[Lazaran]

Yes, I agree that there are attempts at genocide happening in Sudan and Bangladesh—and probably in places like Darfur and Nepal. More attention should be paid to these places to save human lives—something the UN should be seeing to as their forces should be acting to defend these people.

However, I don’t see US taxpayer funds going to support any of the militaries connected to these atrocities in the making—Israel received billions yearly.



The hatred you’re referencing is everywhere. Yes, whites hate blacks and blacks hate whites—but only certain people keep this going. Media organizations do their best to keep the hate flowing. Not every white hates every black and vice versa. The same goes for Arab/Jew hatred. I know Jews that hate any Palestinian full stop—and I know some that understand the conflict and keep the hate at bay.

Please don’t misunderstand me…I support Israel’s right to protect itself. I also do the same for Palestine, but I don’t see any military aid rushing into Gaza and the West Bank. To me, I feel like I’m watching a schoolyard fight with the entire football team beating the shit out of the math club. Netanyahu is a hating bully that keeps yelling “never forget” about the holocaust, without seeing that he’s committing the same types of crimes against humanity that were inflicted upon his people in Germany in the 1930’s.

You’re too focused on the Palestinians’ threat to Israel, imho.

The REAL threat is Russia, Iran, Egypt, Lebanon, etc.

Those ^ countries keep funneling funds, weapons and military (terrorist) advisors / fighters to Gaza and the West Bank for various reasons.

Also:

The U.S. was the single largest provider of humanitarian aid to the Palestinians before the UNWRA involvement in 10/7, etc, was brought to light. Israel was also a main provider of employment and services to Gaza and the West Bank before 10/7. (Israel is still facilitating aid shipments to Gaza when practicable.)

Things aren’t nearly as one sided as some people would like to portray them.

If anything, Israel is the country in the most precarious position in the region.

Hindsight being 20/20; I wonder if the Arabs and Muslims in the region regret their heinous actions after Israel declared its independence, and all the subsequent heinous acts (Initiating wars, 10/7, erc) they have perpetrated against Israel that have necessitated such draconian measures from Israel in response???



Probably not.

 

[deckardB26354]

Hamas doesn't protect the Palestinian people. It uses them as human shields, brutalizes them, and steals their humanitarian aid. Nevertheless, they're amply supplied with military aid from Arab states who use them as a catspaw to attack Israel.

We all know what Hamas is doing to the Palestinian people. How they came into power by a “vote” still amazes me—talk about your stolen elections. Of course, when you factor in that in the Muslim world the men make all of the rules, I’m guessing there was only half of the population actually voted.

That being said, I’d like you to expound on your comment about military aid coming from Arab states. I’d be more than curious to compare the amounts of money received by Palestine by Arab states versus the amount of money received by Israel from the US. I’m gonna take a shot in the dark (hospital in Gaza) that Israel is swimming in funds compared to Hamas.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

We all know what Hamas is doing to the Palestinian people. How they came into power by a “vote” still amazes me—talk about your stolen elections. Of course, when you factor in that in the Muslim world the men make all of the rules, I’m guessing there was only half of the population actually voted.

That being said, I’d like you to expound on your comment about military aid coming from Arab states. I’d be more than curious to compare the amounts of money received by Palestine by Arab states versus the amount of money received by Israel from the US. I’m gonna take a shot in the dark (hospital in Gaza) that Israel is swimming in funds compared to Hamas.

If you know what Hamas is doing, why do you oppose giving Israel money to fight them?

Every time people discuss strategies to end the fighting, it's always about putting more pressure on Israel. Instead we should be putting more pressure on Hamas and the people who fund them.

 

[deckardB26354]

If you know what Hamas is doing, why do you oppose giving Israel money to fight them?

Every time people discuss strategies to end the fighting, it's always about putting more pressure on Israel. Instead we should be putting more pressure on Hamas and the people who fund them.

Because…all I seem to see on every news outlet (not all US media) that I can find are the bodies of children and women and the elderly. I’m sure that they’re all Hamas, right? At least the US military doesn’t say, “hey, there’s a hospital over there and I think I saw someone that looks like a terrorist walk in—send in the cruise missiles!!”

We’ve been giving Israel weapons, ammo, forces and materiel for a long, long time. They don’t have to spend money on the military, so they can afford to provide free healthcare to their citizens. That’s just super that I get to pay for my healthcare while my tax dollars just killed 150 people with a missle.

I would be thrilled if we could apply pressure to the evil forces that support Hamas. I want to see Hamas wiped out. Just like I’d like to see MBS hanging from a tree for the murders he’s overseen. I’d also like to see the Saudis that supported the attack on the WTC brought to justice, but our last orange asshole president would rather be buddy buddy with him so he can plop more overpriced golf resorts there.

Like I said before, Hamas won’t be going anywhere. If Hamas is on the verge of extinction, then some other bunch of hateful assholes will come up with an even more hateful and stupid name so they can kick it up a notch with another bitchin’ jihad. Woo hoo.

 

[Lazaran]

L

Because…all I seem to see on every news outlet (not all US media) that I can find are the bodies of children and women and the elderly.

The Al-Jazeera news feed???

I’m sure that they’re all Hamas, right?

Hamas themselves are reporting that their commanders are getting killed by Israeli strikes. Of course there is going to be collateral deaths of civilians when Hamas commanders and operatives embed themselves with civilians and civilian infrastructure, (Human shields.)

At least the US military doesn’t say, “hey, there’s a hospital over there and I think I saw someone that looks like a terrorist walk in—send in the cruise missiles!!”

The U.S. has indeed had some “bad kills”, and I have no doubt that Israel has had some too.

But EVERY kill by Hamas on 10/7 was a “horrible kill”.

We’ve been giving Israel weapons, ammo, forces and materiel for a long, long time. They don’t have to spend money on the military, so they can afford to provide free healthcare to their citizens. That’s just super that I get to pay for my healthcare while my tax dollars just killed 150 people with a missle.

Your tax money (and mine) gets you (us) an ally in the region

That ^ is priceless.

I would be thrilled if we could apply pressure to the evil forces that support Hamas. I want to see Hamas wiped out. Just like I’d like to see MBS hanging from a tree for the murders he’s overseen. I’d also like to see the Saudis that supported the attack on the WTC brought to justice, but our last orange asshole president would rather be buddy buddy with him so he can plop more overpriced golf resorts there.

DonOld played a yuuuuuge role in sparking the Hamas 10/7 rape, torture, murder, and kidnapping operation: DonOld moved the American embassy to Jerusalem; assassinated Qasem Soleimani; excluded the Palestinians from the Abraham accords, and enacted Muslim bans.

DonOld built up a ton of Arab / Muslim animosity towards the U.S. and Israel, and then left it for President Biden and Vice President Harris to deal with. (One of the many crises DonOld created for President Biden and Vice President Harris.)

Like I said before, Hamas won’t be going anywhere. If Hamas is on the verge of extinction, then some other bunch of hateful assholes will come up with an even more hateful and stupid name so they can kick it up a notch with another bitchin’ jihad. Woo hoo.

So what is your plan???

 

[deckardB26354]

The Al-Jazeera news feed???

Nice guess, but no. I look at multiple news sources to try to pull together the truth as best as possible. Is AJ one of those sources? Of course, just like I used to watch RT to find out what Russia was pushing as news.

Hamas themselves are reporting that their commanders are getting killed by Israeli strikes. Of course there is going to be collateral deaths of civilians when Hamas commanders and operatives imbed themselves with civilians and civilian infrastructure, (Human shields.)





The U.S. has indeed had some “bad kills”, and I have no doubt that Israel has had some too.

But EVERY kill by Hamas on 10/7 was a “horrible kill”.

Yeah right. An American woman was shot in the head by the IDF last week for demonstrating. The IDF came up with the bullshit excuse of “they had ROCKS!” Oh noes! Not ROCKS!! Last time I checked a bullet to the head does more damage than a thrown rock from tens of yards away.

Your tax money (and mine) gets you (us) an ally in the region

That ^ is priceless.

Yeah, I have a little bit of a problem when bullies get my tax money and I still have to pay for healthcare. The kind of ally that murders women and children we don’t need.

DonOld played a yuuuuuge role in sparking the Hamas 10/7 rape, torture, murder, and kidnapping operation: DonOld moved the American embassy to Jerusalem; assassinated Qasem Soleimani; excluded the Palestinians from the Abraham accords, and enacted Muslim bans.

DonOld built up a ton of Arab / Muslim animosity towards the U.S. and Israel, and then left it for President Biden and Vice President Harris to deal with. (One of the many crises DonOld created for President Biden and Vice President Harris.)





So what is your plan???

Trump took a baseball bat to this beehive to be certain—making it worse by moving the capitol of Israel to Jerusalem.

My plan won’t do dick because I have no say in the matter. What I said previously was to cut the land in half and give half to Israel and the other half to the Palestinians.

If Bibi get his way, it’s gonna be “from the river to the sea” alright—it’s gonna be Israeli settlements beachside in Gaza as he wants all of the land for Israel with not a Palestinian to be seen anywhere.

 

[rgraham666]

I keep being struck by the similarity between American when it was expanding west, and Israel today.

Settlers move in and take land from the people already living there. When those people object the armed forces are sent in to back up settlers. The settlers, knowing the armed forces have their back, take some more land.

I'm guessing it will end the same way, with the people that lived their almost extinct and jammed into areas unfit for habitation.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Hamas is bad, m'kay?
Israel is just as bad (Trigger warning: sexual violence, corpse desecration)
I invite the Israeli apologists to rationalize the conduct of Israeli people (military, government prison staff, AND civilians) in the article above.
Articles like this make me seriously question whether the country of Israel deserves a "right to exist".

 

[butters]

Hamas is bad, m'kay?
Israel is just as bad (Trigger warning: sexual violence, corpse desecration)
I invite the Israeli apologists to rationalize the conduct of Israeli people (military, government prison staff, AND civilians) in the article above.
Articles like this make me seriously question whether the country of Israel deserves a "right to exist".

I cannot support an obliteration of Israel any more than I can the annihilation of Gaza/West Bank with an obliteration of a recognised Palestine as some Israelis' goal.

Having said that, the rest of your post? exactly

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Hamas is bad, m'kay?
Israel is just as bad (Trigger warning: sexual violence, corpse desecration)
I invite the Israeli apologists to rationalize the conduct of Israeli people (military, government prison staff, AND civilians) in the article above.
Articles like this make me seriously question whether the country of Israel deserves a "right to exist".

The hostages who were recently executed by Hamas were kept in a dark tunnel where there wasn’t room to stand upright for almost a year. They were starved and denied access to beds and bathroom facilities. Then after being forced to record a final propaganda video, they were shot in the back of the head.

Israel should treat prisoners of war humanely, but it’s wrong to create a false equivalence between them and Hamas.

 

[RobDownSouth]

The hostages who were recently executed by Hamas were kept in a dark tunnel where there wasn’t room to stand upright for almost a year. They were starved and denied access to beds and bathroom facilities. Then after being forced to record a final propaganda video, they were shot in the back of the head.

Israel should treat prisoners of war humanely, but it’s wrong to create a false equivalence between them and Hamas.

Daily humiliation via ritual anal sodomization of male prisoners with riot batons in front of a gleeful civilian audience (who videotaped the abuse to share with family and friends).
Digging up the rotting unembalmed corpses of the prisoner's deceased friends and families and demanding "re-verfication" of their identities in the name of "Israeli national security".

The only reason the first torture was "discontinued" was because a video was leaked to the Western world. The IDF realized they had a public relations nightmare on their hands, so they threw the Bureau of Prison staff under the bus. The prison staff in turn claimed they were directed by the IDF.

There is zero doubt in my mind that this behavior continues to this day, I suspect civilian paying customers wishing to view this abuse are no longer allowed to videotape onsite.

You can call this "false equivalence" if you like, but Israel had better execute all the innocent civilians they current hold in prison, because they are creating a radicalized hardcore cadre of revenge-seeking Gazans who will exact revenge on the next generation of Israelis....and the Israelis have no one to blame but themselves for their moral shortcomings.

 

[Lazaran]

Hamas is bad, m'kay?
Israel is just as bad (Trigger warning: sexual violence, corpse desecration)
I invite the Israeli apologists to rationalize the conduct of Israeli people (military, government prison staff, AND civilians) in the article above.
Articles like this make me seriously question whether the country of Israel deserves a "right to exist".

Daily humiliation via ritual anal sodomization of male prisoners with riot batons in front of a gleeful civilian audience (who videotaped the abuse to share with family and friends).
Digging up the rotting unembalmed corpses of the prisoner's deceased friends and families and demanding "re-verfication" of their identities in the name of "Israeli national security".

The only reason the first torture was "discontinued" was because a video was leaked to the Western world. The IDF realized they had a public relations nightmare on their hands, so they threw the Bureau of Prison staff under the bus. The prison staff in turn claimed they were directed by the IDF.

There is zero doubt in my mind that this behavior continues to this day, I suspect civilian paying customers wishing to view this abuse are no longer allowed to videotape onsite.

You can call this "false equivalence" if you like, but Israel had better execute all the innocent civilians they current hold in prison, because they are creating a radicalized hardcore cadre of revenge-seeking Gazans who will exact revenge on the next generation of Israelis....and the Israelis have no one to blame but themselves for their moral shortcomings.

Read these ^ two posts back to back and consider whether some objectivity may be missing.

Claims of “ritual sodomization” with batons and casual amputations of body parts???



You would think there would be some physical evidence provided in the way of corroborating doctors reports once these prisoners were released, no???



Also;

Hamas are masters of propaganda, and there are certainly Palestinian sympathizers within Israel.

We know for certain that Israeli hostages have been horribly abused and murdered - but I have seen no such physical evidence of the same happening to Palestinian prisoners. (And, no, stripping down, handcuffing, interrogating, and blindfolding SUSPECTED TERRORISTS is NOT equivalent to 10/7 and the Hamas atrocities inflicted on INNOCENT Israelis which have been verified by physical evidence, videos, and firsthand accounts.)

 

[icanhelp1]

No need to ___splain it for me, I know the history.

Yes, there is no genocide happening in Gaza. Just like there was no genocide happening in North America. The Trail of Tears, the Sand Creek Massacre, et. al weren’t actual acts of genocide—just a thinning out of the herd. Just like what’s happening in Gaza. They’re not being forced into gas chambers, but in its own sick way that was more “humane” than letting people starve to death, die from lack of medical facilities (because the boogeyman Hamas was hiding there, so BOOM), and using women and children as sniper practice.

Also, you’re telling me that the property lines laid out by treaty haven’t been breached? That Jewish settlers are forcing people out of their homes claiming it’s theirs “just cuz”? Sorry, but I’m not buying your explanation of “Arabs being unwilling to tolerate Jewish self-rule”—whatever the hell that means.

Until the theocracy that exist in Iran is destroyed a two state solution will never materialize. The Iranian people thirst for some kind of democratic system. Freeing the people of Iran will go a long way to settling the Palestinian debacle. Taking down Hezbollah will go a long way to peace in the Mideast. We all forget that Beirut was once the ‘jewel of the Mediterranean’

Taking out Assad and his regime could help.

 

[deckardB26354]

The hostages who were recently executed by Hamas were kept in a dark tunnel where there wasn’t room to stand upright for almost a year. They were starved and denied access to beds and bathroom facilities. Then after being forced to record a final propaganda video, they were shot in the back of the head.

Israel should treat prisoners of war humanely, but it’s wrong to create a false equivalence between them and Hamas.

I have absolutely no facts to back up what I’m about to say, but there have been enough rumors to go around about Netanyahu. Accusations have been raised about the possible ties to his funding of Hamas to keep the hate flowing. He lost his job and as people took to the streets to protest him to keep him out of government—whoops 10/7 happens.

Given the IDF’s vice-like grip on controls of the media’s access to the offensive on Gaza, how are we to know what really happened in that tunnel? The IDF kills volunteers from World Central Kitchen and it magically loses traction in the press. Footage of the IDF using Palestinians as target practice and the media practically ignores it. An American woman, protesting for Palestine, is shot in the head and killed—all the while the IDF kept changing its story, until the media heard keys jingling and moved on. Maybe the IDF stormed that tunnel expecting to find Hamas and blindly opened fire killing a hostage or two—then killed the rest to cover it up. Bibi uses the deaths to stoke more hate.

Like I said it’s all conjecture, but certainly something to think about if you want to keep an open mind.

 

[Lazaran]

I have absolutely no facts to back up what I’m about to say, but there have been enough rumors to go around about Netanyahu. Accusations have been raised about the possible ties to his funding of Hamas to keep the hate flowing. He lost his job and as people took to the streets to protest him to keep him out of government—whoops 10/7 happens.

Given the IDF’s vice-like grip on controls of the media’s access to the offensive on Gaza, how are we to know what really happened in that tunnel? The IDF kills volunteers from World Central Kitchen and it magically loses traction in the press. Footage of the IDF using Palestinians as target practice and the media practically ignores it. An American woman, protesting for Palestine, is shot in the head and killed—all the while the IDF kept changing its story, until the media heard keys jingling and moved on. Maybe the IDF stormed that tunnel expecting to find Hamas and blindly opened fire killing a hostage or two—then killed the rest to cover it up. Bibi uses the deaths to stoke more hate.

Like I said it’s all conjecture, but certainly something to think about if you want to keep an open mind.

So this ^ is where we are as we approach the 10/7 anniversary???



Russia, Iran, and Hamas etc have won.



And people wonder why / how DonOld and the MAGAts are a viable political force…

 

[deckardB26354]

So this ^ is where we are as we approach the 10/7 anniversary???



Russia, Iran, and Hamas etc have won.



And people wonder why / how DonOld and the MAGAts are a viable political force…

So this is what you’ve gathered from my post. Hmm, okay.

 

[Lazaran]

So this is what you’ve gathered from my post. Hmm, okay.

Re-read your own post.

What would anyone not named Laura Loomer gather from that post???

 

[deckardB26354]

Re-read your own post.

What would anyone not named Laura Loomer gather from that post???

That the IDF is the strong arm of Netanyahu. If you can’t see that, you’re hanging on too tight.