Is anybody interested in listening to points of view different from one's own?

[AlexBailey]

Because most people, including myself, believe that the abortion question presents a conflict of values-- the woman's right to autonomy and in her body v. the interest of the fetus in being alive. As the pregnancy progresses the relative weights of those interests change. Even the majority in Roe v. Wade recognized that the state had a legitimate interest in protecting the fetus's life interest, and that at some point in the pregnancy that interest warranted regulating the right to abortion. If you believe in NO restrictions on abortion, then you are entitled to your opinion, but yours is a minority view, with no support in legal precedent, history, or public opinion.

To me the biggest issue about regulating abortion is that it puts control over medical decisions, and even what is considered a medical decision, in the hands of politicians instead of leaving it between patients and their doctors.

Raise your hand if you believe politicians are a better suited to make medical decisions than your doctor.

 

[Pad_Foot]

Raise your hand if you believe politicians are a better suited to make medical decisions than your doctor.

Any hands raised ?
For your wife? Your daughter? Your parents ?
Cuz God knows they want power over life and death

 

[Lazaran]

To me the biggest issue about regulating abortion is that it puts control over medical decisions, and even what is considered a medical decision, in the hands of politicians instead of leaving it between patients and their doctors.

Raise your hand if you believe politicians are a better suited to make medical decisions than your doctor.

P.R.I.V.A.C.Y.

F.R.E.E.D.O.M.

C.H.O.I.C.E.

Full stop.

 

[AlexBailey]

LOL. Enoch Powell was right you know. It's coming..... the left have tried a huge social experiment and in the end, it's going to backfire very bloodily. It'll be in the inverse of the decolonization of Africa. Let's just call it the decolonization of Europe, or the Reconquista if you prefer.

We CAN actually learn from history if we study it just a little, and while it doesn't repeat, it rhymes. Assimilation can work. Diversity leads to civil conflict.

We can learn from history, if we are willing:

Hitler would have strongly supported @ChloeTzang ‘s modern fascist policies:

“The main plank in the National Socialist program is to abolish the liberalistic concept of the individual and the Marxist concept of humanity and to substitute therefore the folk community, rooted in the soil and bound together by the bond of its common blood. A very simple statement; but it involves a principle that has tremendous consequences.“

https://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/hitler1.htm

“Blood and soil.”

Hitler scapegoated liberals and Jews. Today the American right is scapegoating liberals, Muslims, and Hispanics.

 

[CuriousRick]

I used to be. But after 8 years of being called racist, sexist, white supremacist, and generally attacked by people that know nothing about me. Just because the liberal media has told them too. Nope, don’t need to hear the same ol rhetoric they repeat from the media. Nothing a NPC says means much to me anymore

 

[Yarglenurp]

I used to be. But after 8 years of being called racist, sexist, white supremacist, and generally attacked by people that know nothing about me. Just because the liberal media has told them too. Nope, don’t need to hear the same ol rhetoric they repeat from the media. Nothing a NPC says means much to me anymore

Go back to Russia, traitor filth.

 

[CuriousRick]

Go back to Russia, traitor filth.

Thank you!! I missed you before!! Makes it easy to ignore you.

 

[AlexBailey]

I used to be. But after 8 years of being called racist, sexist, white supremacist, and generally attacked by people that know nothing about me. Just because the liberal media has told them too. Nope, don’t need to hear the same ol rhetoric they repeat from the media. Nothing a NPC says means much to me anymore

Just curious, do you take Trump at his word?

Do you believe all of the court cases against him are fraudulent political hit jobs?

 

[AlexBailey]

It's almost a draw, considering the current greed, arrogance, and incompetence of the medical professions. I raise one finger.

Honestly, that one finger thinks politicians are better at making medical decisions than a doctor you would choose for yourself?

Is your finger saying abortionists are only in it for profit?

 

[Yarglenurp]

It's almost a draw, considering the current greed, arrogance, and incompetence of the medical professions. I raise one finger.

You can generally find a new doctor. The only way to find a new senator is to outlive him or move.

 

[Lazaran]

I used to be. But after 8 years of being called racist, sexist, white supremacist, and generally attacked by people that know nothing about me. Just because the liberal media has told them too. Nope, don’t need to hear the same ol rhetoric they repeat from the media. Nothing a NPC says means much to me anymore

Anyone (CuriousDick) who voted for / supports DonOld Drumpf DESERVES to be “called racist, sexist, white supremacist, and generally attacked” by people who know PLENTY about anyone (CuriousDick) who voted for / supports the racist, sexist, white supremacist (I’ll add: rapey, corrupt, fascist, traitorous, authoritarian) DonOld Drumpf.



CuriousDick

 

[jaF0]

Because most people, including myself, believe that the abortion question presents a conflict of values-- the woman's right to autonomy and in her body v. the interest of the fetus in being alive.

Disagree.

A puddle of goo has no 'rights'.

 

[jaF0]

suppose a pregnant woman at 8 months decides she wants to abort the pregnancy and a) she's known about the pregnancy for a while and b) there's no indication that there's any threat to her health from the pregnancy.

No one has ever proposed that. No competent medical professional would support it. You have basically tossed ALL of your credibility out the window with that one sentence.

 

[jaF0]

To me the biggest issue about regulating abortion is that it puts control over medical decisions, and even what is considered a medical decision, in the hands of politicians instead of leaving it between patients and their doctors.

Raise your hand if you believe politicians are a better suited to make medical decisions than your doctor.

My position has always been to leave to the doctor and patient. No one else. Possibly thne partner if the patients chooses to include them.

If the AMA and other professional medical organizations agree something is OK, no one in politics or religion should have any other formal, binding say.

 

[HisArpy]

No one has ever proposed that. No competent medical professional would support it. You have basically tossed ALL of your credibility out the window with that one sentence.

Except...

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthc...abortions-are-real-and-they-happen-every-day/

 

[Yarglenurp]

No one has ever proposed that. No competent medical would support it. You have basically tosed ALL credibility out the window with the one sentence.

Yeah, in younger days, I’d patiently take time to say that this wasn’t happening and that this is a bad argument because so-and-so reason. But then I realized that it won’t matter, they’ll have moved onto the next lie even before it happens. And your own position will look weak because now your showing empathy to a bully.

Now, my new position is that these are traitorous scum who seek to enslave free people in the US and around the world. They deserve nothing but hatred and the dark. The only time they respect the flame of knowledge is when it burns them.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Except...

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthc...abortions-are-real-and-they-happen-every-day/

That link provides no evidence that elective late term abortions are being performed.

 

[AlexBailey]

Except...

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthc...abortions-are-real-and-they-happen-every-day/

I’m not weighing in on the debate here but I am saying that the article you posted doesn’t say what you seem to think it says. It was written by a self proclaimed pro-lifer and does not provide any proof that elective late term abortions are happening.

The closest thing to proof in the article could be interpreted in many ways and probably could be said to be a sort of Rorschach Test for the reader’s preconceptions rather than a definitive statement:

One of Planned Parenthood’s chief medical officers, Colleen McNicholas, similarly admitted during sworn testimony before Congress that “there is no particular gestational age” for viability. “There are some pregnancies in which the fetus will never be viable,” she added. “My practice includes (abortion) through the point of viability, and as we previously discussed, that could be at any point.”

 

[Yarglenurp]

That link provides no evidence that elective late term abortions are being performed.

I’m not weighing in on the debate here but I am saying that the article you posted doesn’t say what you seem to think it says. It was written by a self proclaimed pro-lifer and does not provide any proof that elective late term abortions are happening.

The closest thing to proof in the article could be interpreted in many ways and probably could be said to be a sort of Rorschach Test for the reader’s preconceptions rather than a definitive statement:

This is a common right-wing trick. They can’t actually cite reputable references to support their positions, so they’ll either cite Alex Jones-type ramblings or cite refs that don’t support their position under the assumption no one actually reads them.

Either way, they’ve made you spend more energy than they did. They consider that a win. This is why the best choice these days is not to try to be the better person, but treat them like the pieces of shit traitors that they are.

 

[Lazaran]

Except...

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthc...abortions-are-real-and-they-happen-every-day/

An opinion piece.



Derpy apparently "thinks" a woman deciding to have an abortion in the eighth month based on the information provided by her physician that her life would be at risk, or that the baby would have some profound deformity / mental defect (an anomaly) = elective abortion.



For Derpy’s benefit:

https://www.parents.com/pregnancy/m...ing-as-late-term-abortion-here-are-the-facts/



Hope that ^ helps.



Derpy

 

[AlexBailey]

This is a common right-wing trick. They can’t actually cite reputable references to support their positions, so they’ll either cite Alex Jones-type ramblings or cite refs that don’t support their position under the assumption no one actually reads them.

Either way, they’ve made you spend more energy than they did. They consider that a win. This is why the best choice these days is not to try to be the better person, but treat them like the pieces of shit traitors that they are.

I actually enjoy finding the crux of issues, it’s kind of like playing chess or solving puzzles. So digging into propaganda and finding the intentional or unintended misinterpretations and pointing them out is kind of fun.

On the other hand, watching the dickheads who stand by their statements even after they’ve been disproven is both funny and tragic - common elements to robust entertainment.

 

[Lazaran]

This is a common right-wing trick. They can’t actually cite reputable references to support their positions, so they’ll either cite Alex Jones-type ramblings or cite refs that don’t support their position under the assumption no one actually reads them.

Either way, they’ve made you spend more energy than they did. They consider that a win. This is why the best choice these days is not to try to be the better person, but treat them like the pieces of shit traitors that they are.

I like to counter their propaganda articles with factual articles. (See: Post #200)

Then someone who is truly uninformed about the issue can decide for themselves which side is trying to gaslight them.

 

[Yarglenurp]

I like to counter their propaganda articles with factual articles. (See: Post #200)

Then someone who is truly uninformed about the issue can decide for themselves which side is trying to gaslight them.

I actually enjoy finding the crux of issues, it’s kind of like playing chess or solving puzzles. So digging into propaganda and finding the intentional or unintended misinterpretations and pointing them out is kind of fun.

On the other hand, watching the dickheads who stand by their statements even after they’ve been disproven is both funny and tragic - common elements to robust entertainment.

Well, all power to you.

I’m just going to call them out as traitorous filth who hate America.

 

[beckiefalwell]

I'm curious. I don't see any point in participating in a politics forum without genuine curiosity and open-mindedness toward people who think differently from the way I do. But I see no evidence of that at all in this forum. It's boring, and the nastiness and one-sidedness is dispiriting.

Most online political forums I've seen are like this, but this one is worse than most.

Low-information MAGAs are dying of the Kool-Aid. Why bother. We're getting Harris elected. No more Miss Nice Girl. This is evolution!

 

[AlexBailey]

Because most people, including myself, believe that the abortion question presents a conflict of values-- the woman's right to autonomy and in her body v. the interest of the fetus in being alive. As the pregnancy progresses the relative weights of those interests change. Even the majority in Roe v. Wade recognized that the state had a legitimate interest in protecting the fetus's life interest, and that at some point in the pregnancy that interest warranted regulating the right to abortion. If you believe in NO restrictions on abortion, then you are entitled to your opinion, but yours is a minority view, with no support in legal precedent, history, or public opinion.

Here are some examples of necessary “late term” abortions that many pro-life politicians don’t want to consider:



"The medical reasons for an abortion in the second trimester include a diagnosis of fetal malformation or genetic anomaly," says Dr. Grossman. These can include:6

• Anencephaly, the absence of the brain and cranium above the base of the skull
• Limb-body wall complex, when the organs develop outside of the body cavity
• Chromosomopathy, a chromosomal disorder

https://www.parents.com/pregnancy/m...ing-as-late-term-abortion-here-are-the-facts/

(Thanks for posting the link, @Lazaran )

These issues are only discovered with thorough prenatal care.

Imagine being 28 or fewer weeks pregnant and having politicians demand that you have to carry your pregnancy to 40 weeks (full term) only to have it inevitably “die” upon delivery.