The Myth of the Elective Third Trimester Abortion

[bijedi]

This still means any ban of elective third term abortions will infringe on no one, correct?

You would think so, but unfortunately the real world doesn't work that way. It comes down to who is determining if the abortion is medically necessary. If a doctor's decision is subject to review by a court, the determination now becomes a legal one as much as a medical one. In these circumstances, history has shown doctors will be reluctant to perform necessary medical procedures and put the life and/or reproductive health of the mother in jeopardy rather than face the threat of potential legal and criminal sanctions.

Given the serious negative consequences of such proposed legislation, it should require clear and convincing proof that it is solving an actual real world problem. The fact that there is scant to no evidence that the behavior the proposed legislation would criminalize exists argues heavily against the necessity of such legislation. Until such evidence can be produced, the legislation represents an unjustified state intrusion into medical decisions that should be left to the mother and her physician.

 

[TastySuckToy]

Correct. He does. However it is very rare to see any republican/conservative/trumper speak with any kind of intelligence regarding abortion.

The sad thing is that he is one among many who sacrifice various issues - things like abortion etc - to things they view as "more important".

If I actually thought Trump was 'rapey, racist, misogynistic, corrupt, traitor', I wouldn't support him.

As for Roe v Wade, I would argue overturning it is actually beneficial for women and their debate about abortion.

 

[adrina]

If I actually thought Trump was 'rapey, racist, misogynistic, corrupt, traitor', I wouldn't support him.

As for Roe v Wade, I would argue overturning it is actually beneficial for women and their debate about abortion.

I was referring to his policy pandering regarding Roe. Gins up the crowds using lies and hyperbole. Named three judges directly responsible for the overturn of Roe.

Historically that may be. What it represents to me is a grave miscarriage of public trust. Men can no longer be trusted to legislate abortion on any level. At least not conservative men or men who do not defer to medical science, as well as any man who is not a full throated ally in the abortion fight. And regardless of how I feel about it, there are over 70k women and counting who are being forced to carry a rape caused pregnancy. There are hundreds of Kate Cox's out there. And there is going to be a whole lot of women suffering.

Because men wanted to stop abortion at all costs.

And yes, you support Trump and that is also part of Trump.

You may be logical about abortion but you will sacrifice it as an issue of value.

 

[Pad_Foot]

When will their thinking run up against Jewish Law and a family about to lose their daughter ?? That’s gonna happen soon

So.. good luck taking on religious rights

Also.. life, liberty and pursuit of happiness ??

To say nothing of the future kids a woman may really want.

Women!! Can’t really live without them. Fuck these know it all men!!

 

[TastySuckToy]

Men can no longer be trusted to legislate abortion on any level.

Because men wanted to stop abortion at all costs.

I'm honestly curious, why do you completely ignore the opinions and political will of women who are against abortion?

You may be logical about abortion but you will sacrifice it as an issue of value.

I'm not a one issue voter, and like I said, I argue the over turning of Roe v Wade actually helped women in their debate about abortion.

I'm firmly in the camp of the government absolutely staying out of people's medical business altogether.

 

[schism666]

I'm honestly curious, why do you completely ignore the opinions and political will of women who are against abortion?

because it is never limited to abortion. the laws go too far just as they just did. forcing tweens to carry rape/incest babies to term is cruel as fuck. women who support that can fuck right off.

 

[bijedi]

As for Roe v Wade, I would argue overturning it is actually beneficial for women and their debate about abortion.

Interesting position to take. Would you make the same argument that overturning District of Columbia vs Heller would be beneficial for gun owners and their debate about gun control laws? If no, why not?

 

[adrina]

I'm honestly curious, why do you completely ignore the opinions and political will of women who are against abortion?

I'm not a one issue voter, and like I said, I argue the over turning of Roe v Wade actually helped women in their debate about abortion.

I'm firmly in the camp of the government absolutely staying out of people's medical business altogether.

The majority of women aren't against abortion. The majority of men are.

The majority of women who are against abortion are following the christian doctrine - definitively patriarchal and male-centric. And many times taught to them by men in church.

Then you shouldn't be a conservative. The conservatives are the ones who are getting in everyone's business making dictates and legislating their morality to be followed by all. Conservatives didn't like pro-choice. That wasn't good enough. Just like they want to control what literature other children besides their own have access to.

You say you're not a one issue voter. Fine. That's a line I've heard a million times - to justify allowing abortion bans and all of the other personal freedom issues which get criminalized by conservatives.

You're not making much sense.

 

[Lazaran]

I was referring to his policy pandering regarding Roe. Gins up the crowds using lies and hyperbole. Named three judges directly responsible for the overturn of Roe.

Historically that may be. What it represents to me is a grave miscarriage of public trust. Men can no longer be trusted to legislate abortion on any level. At least not conservative men or men who do not defer to medical science, as well as any man who is not a full throated ally in the abortion fight. And regardless of how I feel about it, there are over 70k women and counting who are being forced to carry a rape caused pregnancy. There are hundreds of Kate Cox's out there. And there is going to be a whole lot of women suffering.

Because men wanted to stop abortion at all costs.

And yes, you support Trump and that is also part of Trump.

You may be logical about abortion but you will sacrifice it as an issue of value.

I rejects TFB’s premise altogether.

Going backwards on abortion rights, with the accompanying trauma and tragedy befalling women in theocratic"red" states is not "a good thing".



Codifying women’s reproductive rights into the constitution would have been a good thing.



Side note:

The fact that TFB is in denial / is purposefully ignoring the objective reality of the orange MAGAt king being a rapey, racist, misogynistic, corrupt traitor, removes any question about TFB’s intelligence or intellectual honesty.

*nods*

TFB is just a Sea Lion trying to keep the exchange going.

Full stop:

 

[bijedi]

I'm honestly curious, why do you completely ignore the opinions and political will of women who are against abortion?

Because Roe v Wade doesn't force women who are against abortion to have abortions.

In general, your discomfort or dislike of another person's choices or actions should not allow you to prevent them from making those choices and actions if they do not materially affect your choices and actions.

 

[Lazaran]

The majority of women aren't against abortion. The majority of men are.

The majority of women who are against abortion are following the christian doctrine - definitively patriarchal and male-centric. And many times taught to them by men in church.

Then you shouldn't be a conservative. The conservatives are the ones who are getting in everyone's business making dictates and legislating their morality to be followed by all. Conservatives didn't like pro-choice. That wasn't good enough. Just like they want to control what literature other children besides their own have access to.

You say you're not a one issue voter. Fine. That's a line I've heard a million times - to justify allowing abortion bans and all of the other personal freedom issues which get criminalized by conservatives.

You're not making much sense.

TaintyFuclBoi is the Canadian version of TrailerHitch aka Kioti#s.

Not making sense is a feature of that kind of mentality. They have to contort their logic sooooo profoundly to advance their worldview, that they stop making sense to…anyone, really.



Of course, humans have never understood Sea Lions, so…

 

[PaxNurgle]

I'm honestly curious, why do you completely ignore the opinions and political will of women who are against abortion?

Because such women constitute a small minority. Most women, while they might favor SOME restrictions, (e.g. opposed to late-term abortions of healthy fetuses) certainly do NOT want the government making laws that relegate them to, essentially, government owned breeding stock, with about as many reproductive rights as cattle on a dairy farm.

They are a minority of women pushing for an intrusive government agenda that is unpopular with the vast majority of women.

In other words, it's the same as ignoring the opinions of men who believe the government should make vasectomies mandatory after fathering a child. Maybe some men believe that, but the majority of them do not. Which makes this opinion a less than relevant one held by a minority of people pushing for an unpopular (and intrusive) government agenda.

 

[TastySuckToy]

Then you shouldn't be a conservative.

I've never identified as a conservative.

You say you're not a one issue voter. Fine. That's a line I've heard a million times - to justify allowing abortion bans and all of the other personal freedom issues which get criminalized by conservatives.

You're not making much sense.

See above.

 

[adrina]

I've never identified as a conservative.

See above.

You're not making much sense.

Or either you aren't being honest.

 

[TastySuckToy]

Or either you aren't being honest.

If I said I was conservative, that would be dishonest.

 

[TastySuckToy]

The majority of women aren't against abortion.

The majority of women who are against abortion are following the christian doctrine

The percentage of women in the United States who are against abortion, either fully or partially, can vary depending on the polling source and methodology. Here are a few recent polls:

1. According to a Pew Research Center survey conducted in 2019, 43% of women in the U.S. said abortion should be legal in all or most cases, while 55% said it should be illegal in all or most cases. Source: Pew Research Center - Abortion: Public Opinion on Abortion
2. A Gallup poll from 2021 found that 45% of women identified as pro-choice (believing abortion should be legal in all or most cases), while 48% identified as pro-life (believing abortion should be illegal in all or most cases). Source: Gallup - Americans Remain Divided on Abortion, With Slim Majority in Favor of Legal Abortion

Your claim the majority of women are in favour of abortions seems to contradict polling data. The data I found suggests the opposite.

 

[adrina]

The percentage of women in the United States who are against abortion, either fully or partially, can vary depending on the polling source and methodology. Here are a few recent polls:

1. According to a Pew Research Center survey conducted in 2019, 43% of women in the U.S. said abortion should be legal in all or most cases, while 55% said it should be illegal in all or most cases. Source: Pew Research Center - Abortion: Public Opinion on Abortion
2. A Gallup poll from 2021 found that 45% of women identified as pro-choice (believing abortion should be legal in all or most cases), while 48% identified as pro-life (believing abortion should be illegal in all or most cases). Source: Gallup - Americans Remain Divided on Abortion, With Slim Majority in Favor of Legal Abortion

Your claim the majority of women are in favour of abortions seems to contradict polling data. The data I found suggests the opposite.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/244709/pro-choice-pro-life-2018-demographic-tables.aspx

View attachment 2321809

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alison...ne-year-after-roe-overturned/?sh=7168de6f5ea3

Federal ban unpopular: CBS/YouGov found only 37% of respondents would favor a federal law that outlaws abortion nationwide (63% would oppose it), and a May poll from All in Together found only 39% of even Republican women would support a national ban, while 50% of women would support a federal law that instead legalized abortion.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/23167397/abortion-public-opinion-polls-americans

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-r...rtion-should-be-legal-in-all-or-most-cases-2/

View attachment 2321813



Not sure WTF you're on about.

 

[ll74]

The percentage of women in the United States who are against abortion, either fully or partially, can vary depending on the polling source and methodology. Here are a few recent polls:

1. According to a Pew Research Center survey conducted in 2019, 43% of women in the U.S. said abortion should be legal in all or most cases, while 55% said it should be illegal in all or most cases. Source: Pew Research Center - Abortion: Public Opinion on Abortion
2. A Gallup poll from 2021 found that 45% of women identified as pro-choice (believing abortion should be legal in all or most cases), while 48% identified as pro-life (believing abortion should be illegal in all or most cases). Source: Gallup - Americans Remain Divided on Abortion, With Slim Majority in Favor of Legal Abortion

Your claim the majority of women are in favour of abortions seems to contradict polling data. The data I found suggests the opposite.

Probably should provide sources for the polls you mention

 

[TastySuckToy]

Not sure WTF you're on about.

Sources I've previously seen showed many women are against abortion. Perhaps not the majority, but certainly a very significant percentage.

My main point being it's not a man vs women issue. Heck, your own last poll shows the majority of men are in favour abortion.

This isn't exactly strengthening your claim it's men that are ones unilaterally deciding the issue.

 

[adrina]

Sources I've previously seen showed many women are against abortion. Perhaps not the majority, but certainly a very significant percentage.

My main point being it's not a man vs women issue. Heck, your own last poll shows the majority of men are in favour abortion.

This isn't exactly strengthening your claim it's men that are ones unilaterally deciding the issue.

Your point is rendered moot considering the information you put up to support it is false.

Except that it is men that are doing the majority of the legislating and proposing and passing the majority of anti abortion legislation.

You're not arguing from the facts. You should be.

 

[bijedi]

Sources I've previously seen showed many women are against abortion. Perhaps not the majority, but certainly a very significant percentage.

Okay, by why is this relevant? Nobody is going to force these women to have an abortion. As I stated above, the fact that some people are discomforted by the actions of another person doesn't give them the right to prevent that person from taking those actions if it doesn't materially affect them.

My main point being it's not a man vs women issue. Heck, your own last poll shows the majority of men are in favour abortion.

While this is true, a higher percentage of men are against abortion than the percentage of women is against abortion.

Most polls show the largest anti-abortion group is evangelical Christians. Which raises the question, in a country where the government is prevented from endorsing any specific religion, should the desires of a specific religious group determine the laws for the rest of us.

This isn't exactly strengthening your claim it's men that are ones unilaterally deciding the issue.

Maybe not, but the legislatures that are passing the laws ARE predominately men, and they are unilaterally deciding the issue.

 

[Lazaran]

Except that it is men that are doing the majority of the legislating and proposing and passing the majority of anti abortion legislation.

Not to mention, the vast majority of preachers are men. And they are the ones really pushing the theocratic control freak pro-birth agenda on women.

 

[TastySuckToy]

Except that it is men that are doing the majority of the legislating and proposing and passing the majority of anti abortion legislation.

This is irrelevant unless you're going to contest the equality of men and women.

By your logic, how society is shaped and run is determined by women, who overwhelmingly are the ones who raise and teach the ongoing generations of people.

 

[adrina]

This is irrelevant unless you're going to contest the equality of men and women.

By your logic, how society is shaped and run is determined by women, who overwhelmingly are the ones who raise and teach the ongoing generations of people.

Except that it's not.

The reality is that women and men are not treated equally by the law. Or by many other elements as well. The reality is that men historically have been in power.

You are not speaking from factual history. Again. It was just 50 years ago when women had to get permission to be on birth control and to get a credit card. Jury duty, work after pregnancy, marital rape. Priesthood. Presidency. Etc.

At this point I can't take you seriously. You are inventing a reality that does not exist to further your "debate".

 

[TastySuckToy]

Except that it's not.

The reality is that women and men are not treated equally by the law. Or by many other elements as well. The reality is that men historically have been in power.

You are not speaking from factual history. Again. It was just 50 years ago when women had to get permission to be on birth control and to get a credit card. Jury duty, work after pregnancy, marital rape. Priesthood. Presidency. Etc.

At this point I can't take you seriously. You are inventing a reality that does not exist to further your "debate".

So you reject the notion that men and women are equals. Fair enough.