The Myth of the Elective Third Trimester Abortion

[adrina]

Massive hysteria. Massive histrionics.

But do they exist? Do you know of any instance of one?

Can you find an example? A documented example of an elective abortion performed in the third trimester in America.

We are legislating as if this is a thing. I have never heard of it happening ever. Have you?

 

[Veroe]

Republicans certainly talk on the campaign trail as if there's an epidemic of them. Some whackadoos say they even wait until after the baby's born to perform the abortion...which I would've thought would be an actual murder rather than a conflated one pro-life activists would like us all to do.

 

[YDB95]

They've been beating that drum for 30 years (remember "partial-birth abortion," a term that does not appear in any reputable medical text?). I have no doubt the leaders of the anti-choice movement know it never happens. But they also know they can't win with the truth, so they need something that will make even their opponents squeamish.

 

[adrina]

Just thought I'd bump this.

I still haven't found a single instance of an elective third trimester abortion.

 

[Pad_Foot]

Come on Right to Lifers SHOW US

While at the same time the Pope cuts back on embryo killing! Perhaps those who care so much about human life will have to adopt vs renting a womb

 

[Chobham]

Late term abortions.

 

[schism666]

Late term abortions.

you looked into this as a way to finally rid yourself of your idiot son.

 

[RoryN]

Late term abortions.

Took a month for you to come up with an answer...and this one is from a righty rag with dubious facts: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/lozier-institute/

You lose. Play again?

 

[adrina]

Late term abortions.

20 weeks. So 5th and 6th months included. No where in the article was a single example of a an elective third trimester abortion.

However the hysterical posturing clearly demonstrated that the author is not well suited to deal with the topic of abortion. At least not on a rational level.

It shouldn't be that difficult considering how it's legislated as if it is a regular occurrence. Find one verified example of an elective third trimester abortion.

 

[adrina]

It's been a couple weeks, anyone find any of those elective third term abortions we're all so apparently outraged about yet?

 

[Bn2f]

No. But in November I believe the orange demon spawn's presidential bid won't come to term and will be rejected a 3rd time at the ballot box by the American voters. I, for one, will point to the fact that had trump only practiced abstinence talking about Roe as the reason good and decent Americans respecting the autonomy of the democratic body politic, and not any miscarriage of justice, to his campaign's abortion.
Roe, Roe, Roe Your Vote!

Trump boasts he's 'proud' about his role in overturning Roe v. Wade, the issue that has become ballot-box poison for Republicans​

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-abortion-roe-v-wade-supreme-court-gop-primary-2024-1?amp

 

[adrina]

It's been a couple weeks. Seems like a good time to re-up the question.

Especially given all the hysterics.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Roe, Roe, Roe Your Vote!

NGL that shit is fucking brilliant.

 

[Lazaran]

It's been a couple weeks. Seems like a good time to re-up the question.

Especially given all the hysterics.

I believe the most hysterical idiot on this subject has left the chat.

That "TST" idiot in your other thread actually posted a comment in support of a woman’s right to have an abortion at any time up until birth (I had some hope that "TST" finally got a clue), but then "TST" qualified that statement by adding some nonsense about there (and I’m paraphrasing) “not always being a need to kill the fetus”.



Ironically, that "TST" idiot terminated (deleted) that comment, which is why I had to paraphrase earlier.

 

[a93dipqx]

There are no elective third trimester abortions. They do not exist. Men, and it is overwhelmingly men, discovered they could activate evangelicals to cast ballots if they fed into that group's suspicion of anyone who does not think like them. Evangelicals and satellite groups holding similar views on abortion, are unwilling to deal with the hard question of what it means to be a person. When I encounter individuals proselytizing their pro-life line, I ask them to describe their criterion. Invariably, I get some nonsense that either personhood begins a conception or lately, the whole heartbeat at six weeks bullshit. (Electrical impulses do not mean a heart is beating, but that is a different discussion.) I then ask if a person taking their own life is acceptable which they universally tell me "No." So then, I point out that if life is only the presence of a heartbeat and no one is allowed to end their own life, they cannot have a living will or agree to any kind of Do Not Resuscitate order. As someone who worked in the medical field, I get to do anything I want to keep your heart beating, regardless of your desires or state of consciousness.

When suddenly they realize that their position on life can result in them helpless in a nursing home bed, wearing a diaper and trapped in their own head, incapable of communication because I have them on a ventilator to make sure their heart keeps beating, they just walk away frustrated because I just made a point that directly impacts them, rather than some woman carrying a fetus with a defect incompatible with life and forcing that woman to give birth and then watch that child die.

 

[Paul_Chance]

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/ss/ss7110a1.htm#T10_down

Here is the best available data. To the best of my knowledge, the data accumulating agency (in this case the CDC) doesn't ask for the reason for the abortion, just whether or not there was one, plus attached demographic data.

I am just curious about something though - when you say "elective" do you mean "non-medically necessary". (Because the opposite of elective is non-elective, which would mean forced abortions, which isn't the same as "medically necessary".

 

[Lazaran]

I am just curious about something though - when you say "elective" do you mean "non-medically necessary". (Because the opposite of elective is non-elective, which would mean forced abortions, which isn't the same as "medically necessary".

You’re smarter than that ^, right Paul???

"Elective", in this case, OBVIOUSLY means a third trimester abortion "just because the woman felt like it". (And this thread is also meant to rebut / rebuke those hysterical idiots who claim women are having "elective" abortions at NINE MONTHS, and that the doctors are killing a perfectly healthy fetus (that poses no medical risk to the mother), either in the womb by some surgical / chemical method, or they are killing a perfectly healthy Baby (that obviously poses no medical risk to the mother) after some kind of non-abortion delivery at NINE MONTHS.)

Kinda like getting a face lift is "elective" surgery.

Hope that ^ helps.

 

[adrina]

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/ss/ss7110a1.htm#T10_down

Here is the best available data. To the best of my knowledge, the data accumulating agency (in this case the CDC) doesn't ask for the reason for the abortion, just whether or not there was one, plus attached demographic data.

I am just curious about something though - when you say "elective" do you mean "non-medically necessary". (Because the opposite of elective is non-elective, which would mean forced abortions, which isn't the same as "medically necessary".

Honestly, this is why I am opposed to men contributing their opinions on abortion. All people who speak in ignorance really, but as the majority of men are anti abortion and the majority of legislation regarding abortion proposed and passed by men is emotion based twaddle which goes directly against recommended medical practices and accepted medical science.

The term "elective" is a long used term in the abortion "discussion" to mean abortions that aren't medically necessary. Ones that are performed because the woman doesn't want to be pregnant, doesn't want to gestate and birth the fetus, doesn't want to raise a/another child etc.

If you don't realize this then you either haven't been paying attention - which again doesn't speak well for you to insert yourself into a discussion that you are so ignorant on or you are not being sincere.

I would apologize for being harsh, but frankly men's hysterical ignorance has directly caused about 70,000 women in America to be forced to carry a rape pregnancy. Thus far.

 

[Lazaran]

Honestly, this is why I am opposed to men contributing their opinions on abortion. All people who speak in ignorance really, but as the majority of men are anti abortion and the majority of legislation regarding abortion proposed and passed by men is emotion based twaddle which goes directly against recommended medical practices and accepted medical science.

The term "elective" is a long used term in the abortion "discussion" to mean abortions that aren't medically necessary. Ones that are performed because the woman doesn't want to be pregnant, doesn't want to gestate and birth the fetus, doesn't want to raise a/another child etc.

If you don't realize this then you either haven't been paying attention - which again doesn't speak well for you to insert yourself into a discussion that you are so ignorant on or you are not being sincere. Thus far.

I would apologize for being harsh, but frankly men's hysterical ignorance has directly caused about 70,000 women in America to be forced to carry a rape pregnancy.

I’ve found Paul to be a weasel word-y Derpy type.

I believe Paul is also a "lawyer".

 

[Paul_Chance]

You’re smarter than that ^, right Paul???

"Elective", in this case, OBVIOUSLY means a third trimester abortion "just because the woman felt like it".

Kinda like getting a face lift is "elective" surgery.

Hope that ^ helps.

That's why I am trying to narrow the language down. "Elective" is the political term. It appears the medical term is TToP (Therapeutic Termination of Pregnancy - where the life of the mother or child is at risk) and VToP (Voluntary Termination of Pregnancy). I've found some references where you could calculate in on the numbers, but so far they've been buried behind pay-walls. It appears that, in general, about 70+ percent of abortions are VToP, and about 30% are TTop. No direct cite yet. I'll keep poking at it out of curiosity.

(Cosmetic surgery to the face is also split a similar way - medically necessary, as in cases of injury or deformity, and voluntary, as in "make me better looking".)

 

[adrina]

I’ve found Paul to be a weasel word-y Derpy type.

I believe Paul is also a "lawyer".

I can't say this loudly enough: men have proven they can't be trusted to legislate abortion.

 

[Lazaran]

That's why I am trying to narrow the language down. "Elective" is the political term. It appears the medical term is TToP (Therapeutic Termination of Pregnancy - where the life of the mother or child is at risk) and VToP (Voluntary Termination of Pregnancy). I've found some references where you could calculate in on the numbers, but so far they've been buried behind pay-walls. It appears that, in general, about 70+ percent of abortions are VToP, and about 30% are TTop. No direct cite yet. I'll keep poking at it out of curiosity.

(Cosmetic surgery to the face is also split a similar way - medically necessary, as in cases of injury or deformity, and voluntary, as in "make me better looking".)

 

[Lazaran]

I can't say this loudly enough: men have proven they can't be trusted to legislate abortion.

Historically, yes.

I do believe there is a more intelligent and enlightened coterie of men who have listened and heard what intelligent and enlightened women have communicated on the matter, and could be counted on as allies to help pass an amendment that would remove government from the discussion all together. (While also protecting women’s access to comprehensive health care).



((And yes, I count myself as one of those men).

*nods*

 

[Paul_Chance]

Okay, found it. Here is a solid data source (with access to the underlying data tables), from the Guttmacher Institute (a pro-choice organization). The rate of VToP and TToP (also called TFMR (termination for medical reasons) hovers around 75% voluntary termination and 25% medical reasons (parent or fetus).

https://www.guttmacher.org/journals...ons-quantitative-and-qualitative-perspectives

There is also a ton of other interesting data in there, if you're a data wonk.

 

[a93dipqx]

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/ss/ss7110a1.htm#T10_down

Here is the best available data. To the best of my knowledge, the data accumulating agency (in this case the CDC) doesn't ask for the reason for the abortion, just whether or not there was one, plus attached demographic data.

I am just curious about something though - when you say "elective" do you mean "non-medically necessary". (Because the opposite of elective is non-elective, which would mean forced abortions, which isn't the same as "medically necessary".

A point to make about the use of the CDC's information within the context of this discussion. This thread's theme addresses the question of late term abortions, which--and I suspect everyone would agree--occurs well into the third trimester. The third trimester of a pregnancy begins at week twenty-eight. Your Centers for Disease Control charts only list abortions occurring at greater than twenty-one weeks.

In this instance, including information from the CDC does not offer any illumination on the topic, but rather works to obscure a meaningful dialog. It refutes nothing.