Sweden invades the USA…

[Cogan]

While that's true, you are kind of comparing apples and oranges. The problem in Sweden is that you pay for the universal healthcare through taxes, and then pay again for private care that actually works.

You can skip the queues and pay from your own pocket, but that's unnecessary since the private care is under the universal healthcare too. If you are in the system it depends on how ill you are how long you have to wait. A heart attack for example or massive bleeding will be treated without any waiting in a queue. Then there is a scale on how sick the patient is how long the patient has to wait for his treatment.

 

[Cogan]

Is the question whether you would defend against an invader? The Swedes tend to be fairly passive

Nowadays yes. We are a peaceful bunch of people that mainly trained defense when we did our military service.

But once upon a time..........
https://media1.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExa2M0YmVuaW93eTBhbW1zaGEydHRoc3VrcHJxOXlpZWtsd20waXpzaCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/j0qYU35hA5t9vfhckv/giphy.gif

 

[LoneMilf]

Nope.



Not according to any unbiased source.



US insurance companies regularly deny care to people who need it. US doctors and nurses are chronically overworked.



True. It’s far far more expensive in the US and bankrupts more than 500,000 Americans annually.

I do think there are horrible inefficiencies in the US system, and maybe I would have a less positive impression if I had first-hand experience with it.

But I have significant experience with the Swedish system and know for a fact that it is being glorified and oversold in international media. The reality of living with that system is scary and not something that should be thrived for by anyone.

This isn't an academic study, but if you want insights into real experiences with Swedish healthcare, you can try having a look here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TillSverige/comments/10eo8oh/what_the_fuck_is_wrong_with_the_healthcare_system

 

[OralAllOver]

…suddenly, America has universal healthcare, the number of Americans living in poverty plunges, the number of billionaires increases too, support for freedom of speech goes up...

...minimum wages rise as they’re negotiated by unions not politicians, gun deaths plummet, hate speech declines, college is free so student debt does not force young people into dead-end jobs...

...you are free to live and work in any country in the EU whenever you want, licorice is everywhere…

But here's my question: what would you, as an American, be prepared to do to defend against such a scenario?

a) Nothing - as long as I have my guns and can bitch on the internet, that's all I need.
b) I would just vote against this. That's what I usually do.
c) I would sacrifice my future happiness and my first-born child to ensure this never comes to pass.

Yes, I will open wide for Swedish meatballs

https://www.sex.com/fr/gifs/239712

 

[MajorRewrite]

I do think there are horrible inefficiencies in the US system, and maybe I would have a less positive impression if I had first-hand experience with it.

But I have significant experience with the Swedish system and know for a fact that it is being glorified and oversold in international media. The reality of living with that system is scary and not something that should be thrived for by anyone.

This isn't an academic study, but if you want insights into real experiences with Swedish healthcare, you can try having a look here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TillSverige/comments/10eo8oh/what_the_fuck_is_wrong_with_the_healthcare_system

Personal anecdotes that may or may not be completely fabricated are not evidence of anything.

 

[LoneMilf]

Personal anecdotes that may or may not be completely fabricated are not evidence of anything.

True. And I'm not trying to prove anything. Just trying to help people get a nuanced picture of reality. Healthcare is a huge and complicated topic that is very difficult to describe fully through quantitative studies alone.

 

[kreemi_pi]

…suddenly, America has universal healthcare, the number of Americans living in poverty plunges, the number of billionaires increases too, support for freedom of speech goes up...

...minimum wages rise as they’re negotiated by unions not politicians, gun deaths plummet, hate speech declines, college is free so student debt does not force young people into dead-end jobs...

...you are free to live and work in any country in the EU whenever you want, licorice is everywhere…

But here's my question: what would you, as an American, be prepared to do to defend against such a scenario?

a) Nothing - as long as I have my guns and can bitch on the internet, that's all I need.
b) I would just vote against this. That's what I usually do.
c) I would sacrifice my future happiness and my first-born child to ensure this never comes to pass.

Sweden invaded the US? Nor way!

Is it still happening, or is it already Finnished?

 

[HumpDayHoratio]

I do think there are horrible inefficiencies in the US system, and maybe I would have a less positive impression if I had first-hand experience with it.

But I have significant experience with the Swedish system and know for a fact that it is being glorified and oversold in international media. The reality of living with that system is scary and not something that should be thrived for by anyone.

This isn't an academic study, but if you want insights into real experiences with Swedish healthcare, you can try having a look here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TillSverige/comments/10eo8oh/what_the_fuck_is_wrong_with_the_healthcare_system

Sweden has a population of a little over ten million…almost 90% urban. Attempting to implement that in a country of 360m is untenable. Something the advocates of Euro socialist style medicine never tell you.

 

[MajorRewrite]

Sweden has a population of a little over ten million…almost 90% urban. Attempting to implement that in a country of 360m is untenable. Something the advocates of Euro socialist style medicine never tell you.

Sweden has a lower population density than the US. So do Finland, Norway, Canada and Australia.

Pretending that size or distribution of population is relevant is dumb.

 

[HumpDayHoratio]

Sweden has a lower population density than the US. So do Finland, Norway, Canada and Australia.

Pretending that size or distribution of population is relevant is dumb.

At 11% of GDP it far exceeds the orgasmic vision of our resident socialists. The point stands, nothing is “free.” This will NOT work in a country the size of the US. For many reasons.

Here’s a little walk down memory lane. There are a couple of things to be leaned here. Just how big the headwinds are for you eruo-style healthcare types. It’s also a good PolySci lesson. .

 

[MajorRewrite]

At 11% of GDP it far exceeds the orgasmic vision of our resident socialists.

What does that have to do with anything?

The point stands, nothing is “free.”

Nobody claims anything is free. But we can reduce healthcare spending by 50% by copying any of the systems used in other developed nations.

This will NOT work in a country the size of the US. For many reasons.

fOr MaNy ReAsoNs

The size and wealth of the US provides more resources for implementing whatever healthcare system we want. It’s a feature, not a bug.

Nations with lower population density and lower wealth have universal healthcare.

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

Sweden has a population of a little over ten million…almost 90% urban. Attempting to implement that in a country of 360m is untenable. Something the advocates of Euro socialist style medicine never tell you.

The reason the advocates don't tell you that is because America already has over 144 million people on government funded healthcare. Or 'socialist style medicine'.

America is perfectly capable of implementing universal healthcare.

 

[HumpDayHoratio]

What does that have to do with anything?



Nobody claims anything is free. But we can reduce healthcare spending by 50% by copying any of the systems used in other developed nations.



fOr MaNy ReAsoNs

The size and wealth of the US provides more resources for implementing whatever healthcare system we want. It’s a feature, not a bug.

Nations with lower population density and lower wealth have universal healthcare.

The reason the advocates don't tell you that is because America already has over 144 million people on government funded healthcare. Or 'socialist style medicine'.

America is perfectly capable of implementing universal healthcare.

I would direct both of you to the link I posted. It explains what you’re up against to change the system and have been since the 50’s. You’re going to have to tear down the three pronged front of doctors, Big Pharma, and Insurance. That’s a tall order.

I’m not saying our system is perfect or doesn’t need an overhaul. Believe it or not, I may be closer to your way of thinking on this. I just know that entrenched institutions don’t die easy. With doctors the needle may be moving. The other two institutions?

A euro style system will not happen in our lifetime.

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

I would direct both of you to the link I posted. It explains what you’re up against to change the system and have been since the 50’s. You’re going to have to tear down the three pronged front of doctors, Big Pharma, and Insurance. That’s a tall order.

I’m not saying our system is perfect or doesn’t need an overhaul. Believe it or not, I may be closer to your way of thinking on this. I just know that entrenched institutions don’t die easy. With doctors the needle may be moving. The other two institutions?

A euro style system will not happen in our lifetime.

Yes, it requires a huge amount of effort and expertise to pull off. And it is expensive. No way around that. Just not as expensive as what America does at the moment.

In all honesty, when a country gets its shit together and determines to pull off something like universal healthcare, it really lifts the country. Makes the people proud of themselves and increases trust. Like America putting a man on the moon.

The reason the Brits are so proud and protective of their NHS is because, when it was set up, they had to endure rationing up until 1954 to make it work. They did that willingly. They understood the bargain. It was worth it.

Quite often you hear arguments that X isn't possible in the USA because there isn't enough trust. But trust sort of works the other way around: you build trust by doing difficult things together, which then allows you to be even more ambitious in the future.

 

[HumpDayHoratio]

Yes, it requires a huge amount of effort and expertise to pull off. And it is expensive. No way around that. Just not as expensive as what America does at the moment.

In all honesty, when a country gets its shit together and determines to pull off something like universal healthcare, it really lifts the country. Makes the people proud of themselves and increases trust. Like America putting a man on the moon.

The reason the Brits are so proud and protective of their NHS is because, when it was set up, they had to endure rationing up until 1954 to make it work. They did that willingly. They understood the bargain. It was worth it.

Quite often you hear arguments that X isn't possible in the USA because there isn't enough trust. But trust sort of works the other way around: you build trust by doing difficult things together, which then allows you to be even more ambitious in the future.

We pulled together for a couple of war efforts, but haven’t done or been asked to sacrifice like that in 80yrs. I feel pretty confident that this generation of American’s would NEVER make those kinds of sacrifices.

The US spends twice as much as the next closest country on healthcare, yet we’re sicker and getting fatter by the day. I think Sweden ranks as one of the healthier countries in the world. Just try and motivate your average yahoo to go take a walk. Look how RFK Jr. is roundly mocked by our “enlightened” on this forum. It gives you glimpse at what we’re up against. Until we get serious about treating the root cause of our health crisis, we’ll be in this never ending race to the bottom.

Here’s a Council on Foreign Relations member who has written extensively on modernizing health care.

• Continue to evolve Medicare and Medicaid payment policy away from fee-for-service and toward incentivizing providers to keep people healthy and out of expensive, intensive care settings like hospitals and nursing homes unless necessary.
• Bring transparency to healthcare prices, utilization and clinical data to unlock better policymaking and private market competition.
• Reduce administrative expenses by simplifying healthcare quality reporting and streamlining utilization management.
• Combine Medicare’s Part A hospital care program with Part B ambulatory services, implement an annual cost-sharing cap, a single deductible and simplified co-pay schedule.
• Change how Medicare and Medicare Advantage benefits (known as Part C) are structured to encourage greater head-to-head competition between Medicare Advantage plans and a modernized traditional Medicare program.
• Reform coverage for low-income individuals who need long-term and high-cost care and are eligible for Medicare and Medicaid (known as "dual eligibles").
• Evolve commercial insurance market rules to encourage the creation of novel benefit designs that fuel competition and empower patient consumerism.
• Modify FDA approval processes and patent laws to encourage greater generic drug and biosimilar competition.
• Encourage digital health innovation that spurs competition and reduces costs.-Peter G. Peterson Foundation (former member of the CFR)

This may be the way forward here?

 

[Bn2f]

The reason the advocates don't tell you that is because America already has over 144 million people on government funded healthcare. Or 'socialist style medicine'.

America is perfectly capable of implementing universal healthcare.

First, it must always be said that the Republican Party has no practical solution to reforming healthcare and therefore their base also has no solution when they dare try talking about it. This trumper member has nothing either and that’s why he posted the suggestions of someone else. Even scanning through the suggestions reads like it’s proposing an expansion of what Americans know as Obamacare. The teeny, tiny mention of unlocking private market competition is really the only conservative idea in the whole list and where in the American public is the clamor for that but for bought and paid politicians? Republicans fear an expansion because eventually it will lead to single payer.

 

[MajorRewrite]

This may be the way forward here?

Fiddling around the edges is more effort than just moving to an efficient new system, and won’t provide nearly as much savings.

 

[Hel_Books]

Remember the previous Swedish invasion . . . Oh yeah, and I have met my destiny in quite a similar way . . . The history book on the shelf . . . Is always repeating itself

 

[LoneMilf]

Nobody claims anything is free. But we can reduce healthcare spending by 50% by copying any of the systems used in other developed nations.

It might be interesting to look at Japan. They have a healthcare system where everyone pays a standardized price for treatment with prices linked to salary levels. It's insurance based and avoids the pitfalls of the 'free for everyone' systems (i.e. regulating costs by lowering quality).

 

[LLCox]

I would welcome our new Overlords