closed Thread

[Rightguide]

FOREIGN AFFAIRS

To Bomb or Not to Bomb Iran: That Is the Question​

Air strikes must be proportional to presumed gains, as well as anticipated losses.

Douglas Macgregor
Feb 4, 202412:05 AM

Secretary of State Antony Blinken said Monday that it was “an incredibly volatile time in the Middle East.” The world, Blinken said, has “not seen a situation as dangerous as the one we’re facing now across the region since at least 1973, and arguably even before that.”

In response to Blinken’s astute evaluation, President Biden is “virtue signaling” to Washington’s war party that he too is willing to pointlessly bomb targets in the Middle East. In Washington, to do otherwise is to appear weak, something that presidents frequently conclude the leader of the world’s superpower cannot do.

Tehran made it clear that any strike on its territory is a redline and bombing any part of Iranian territory “would be met with an appropriate response.” Make no mistake, a strategic bombing campaign directed at Iran sends a clear and unambiguous message: The United States is at war with the Iranian State, its people, and its armed forces.

At this point, whether Biden does or does not remove Iran from his target list, Americans should still beware. There is no shortage of bombing activists inside the beltway who are convinced that war with Iran is the only solution to Iran’s hostility to Israel.

Rest of long article here: https://www.theamericanconservative.com/to-bomb-or-not-to-bomb-iran-that-is-the-question/

Not all conservatives are on board with what is happening in Gaza or the Middle East.

 

[ll74]

So should we bomb Iran?

 

[18xoxo]

FOREIGN AFFAIRS

To Bomb or Not to Bomb Iran: That Is the Question​

Air strikes must be proportional to presumed gains, as well as anticipated losses.

Douglas Macgregor
Feb 4, 202412:05 AM

Secretary of State Antony Blinken said Monday that it was “an incredibly volatile time in the Middle East.” The world, Blinken said, has “not seen a situation as dangerous as the one we’re facing now across the region since at least 1973, and arguably even before that.”

In response to Blinken’s astute evaluation, President Biden is “virtue signaling” to Washington’s war party that he too is willing to pointlessly bomb targets in the Middle East. In Washington, to do otherwise is to appear weak, something that presidents frequently conclude the leader of the world’s superpower cannot do.

Tehran made it clear that any strike on its territory is a redline and bombing any part of Iranian territory “would be met with an appropriate response.” Make no mistake, a strategic bombing campaign directed at Iran sends a clear and unambiguous message: The United States is at war with the Iranian State, its people, and its armed forces.

At this point, whether Biden does or does not remove Iran from his target list, Americans should still beware. There is no shortage of bombing activists inside the beltway who are convinced that war with Iran is the only solution to Iran’s hostility to Israel.

Rest of long article here: https://www.theamericanconservative.com/to-bomb-or-not-to-bomb-iran-that-is-the-question/

Not all conservatives are on board with what is happening in Gaza or the Middle East.

yes

 

[18xoxo]

I’m afraid the ICJ ruling and the South Africa submission are pretty clear: it meets 4/5 criteria under the genocide convention.

It is not possible to declare it is not a genocide, unless you ignore all of the evidence.

You would have to ignore:

1. Cutting off water
2. Preventing aid from getting in
3. Wholesale destruction of civilian architecture
4. Damaging waterways and environment to prevent future use
5. Damage to whole or part of the population
6. Forced displacement (now 95% of the population)
7. Genocidal intent from people in power (ample evidence)

These are just the headliners, let alone the use of 2000lb bombs indiscriminately, use of phosphorous weaponry, snipers hitting civilians, etc etc

The only way Gaza is not a genocide is if it didn’t happen in the first place.

“Self defence” is not a legal defence for genocidal intent or actions.

Stop Whining~

 

[ll74]

CHILDREN TRAPPED IN GAZA CONFLICT FACE GENERATIONAL TRAUMA

 

[ll74]

Haven't had a chance to dig into this proposal
Or counterproposal but wanted to post info on it

Hamas counterproposal on hostage and ceasefire deal calls for phased Israeli pullout from Gaza and plan to end war​

 

[LLCox]

So should we bomb Iran?

Only if the US finishes the job. The US hasn't fought to win since WW2... well except Grenada.

 

[ll74]

Dehumanizing Palestinians...... What a new and unique take (original article is shit and also paywalled, so not linking it)

Thomas Friedman's describing the Middle East as an 'animal kingdom' is even worse than it sounds

 

[Nicefella]

What’s happening in Gaza isn’t a “genocide”.

@BrightShinyGirl

I would like to hear how you conclude that it isn’t a genocide. Maybe you can explain instead of just throwing around random speaking points.

Here is my two cent take - Even the US, by far and shamefully the biggest shills for Israel in this mess, are now withholding aid. The conservative Republicans and the liberal democrats who can’t stop cumming over themselves to befriend “Bibi” are fucking off left and right.

The reason is because the ICJ decision solidified what anyone with an intelligent quotient north of not-retarded knew already: that this is a genocide and there is no legally cognizable justification of self-defense for killing innocent children and civilians.

The fact remains that the far right Israeli regime blew it by retaliating without restraint to the Oct 7 attack.

They took it too far and now are so far entrenched that they have to continue to murder and pillage Palestinian civilians until the likes of Iran, Iraq, Lebanon and Syria join forces and force America to intervene.

Except I think even Joe Biden and his dimwit Sancho Panza won’t be able to help because Congress will withhold aid. And then there is the election that Joe Biden is desperately trying not to lose to an even bigger moron.

We are truly fucked. But at least I can see a turd on the street and call it a turd. I look forward to your explanation

 

[Nicefella]

Only if the US finishes the job. The US hasn't fought to win since WW2... well except Grenada.

We should stay the fuck out and possibly fix the border and the ridiculous migrant bullshit crisis. Or fix the crime rate in traditionally shitty cities? Or maybe help out by lowering the tax rate?

No - let’s give the bomb makers billions. Ugh. I should’ve just not gone down this rabbit hole this morning.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

@BrightShinyGirl

I would like to hear how you conclude that it isn’t a genocide. Maybe you can explain instead of just throwing around random speaking points.

Here is my two cent take - Even the US, by far and shamefully the biggest shills for Israel in this mess, are now withholding aid. The conservative Republicans and the liberal democrats who can’t stop cumming over themselves to befriend “Bibi” are fucking off left and right.

The reason is because the ICJ decision solidified what anyone with an intelligent quotient north of not-retarded knew already: that this is a genocide and there is no legally cognizable justification of self-defense for killing innocent children and civilians.

The fact remains that the far right Israeli regime blew it by retaliating without restraint to the Oct 7 attack.

They took it too far and now are so far entrenched that they have to continue to murder and pillage Palestinian civilians until the likes of Iran, Iraq, Lebanon and Syria join forces and force America to intervene.

Except I think even Joe Biden and his dimwit Sancho Panza won’t be able to help because Congress will withhold aid. And then there is the election that Joe Biden is desperately trying not to lose to an even bigger moron.

We are truly fucked. But at least I can see a turd on the street and call it a turd. I look forward to your explanation

A genocide is a deliberate attempt to exterminate a group of people. Not every act of excessive brutality in war is a “genocide”.

 

[snailspace]

Sinwar's wife is being treated in an Israeli hospital for cancer! GENOCIDE!. Why dont they hold her hostage? BTW, Sinwar was treated in an Israeli hospital for cancer as well! GENOCIDE!

Israel is dumb for doing this!

 

[ll74]

A genocide is a deliberate attempt to exterminate a group of people. Not every act of excessive brutality in war is a “genocide”.

I think the accepted international definition has been met., though I have always had a similar position in what it is. Israel's true problem is that their actions and their objectives continue to be at odds with each other. When a country has the upper hand, as they do, criticism comes hard (and imo, is deserved in many aspects) if you have military superiority and impunity, your targets should be more strategic and limited. 3000 lb dumb bombs in densely populated areas are neither.

It’s bad enough to be using the weapons when they are precisely hitting their targets. It is a massive civilian harm problem if they do not have that accuracy, and if you can’t even give a benefit of the doubt that that the weapon is actually landing where the Israeli forces intended to,” Castner added.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/13/politics/intelligence-assessment-dumb-bombs-israel-gaza/index.html

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

A genocide is a deliberate attempt to exterminate a group of people. Not every act of excessive brutality in war is a “genocide”.

Maybe you should read this document: https://www.un.org/en/genocidepreve...n and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.pdf

And pay attention to article II:

Article II
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with
intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as
such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its
physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

The ICJ determination showed Israel met 4/5 of these.

The South Africa submission can be found here and should be read in full for anyone brave enough to stomach some of the awful things said and done in the last five months:

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf

So yes, it is both plausible, likely and is in fact evidenced that Israel has been and is continuing to conduct a genocidal campaign in Gaza and the West Bank of Palestine.

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

I think the accepted international definition has been met., though I have always had a similar position in what it is. Israel's true problem is that their actions and their objectives continue to be at odds with each other. When a country has the upper hand, as they do, criticism comes hard (and imo, is deserved in many aspects) if you have military superiority and impunity, your targets should be more strategic and limited. 3000 lb dumb bombs in densely populated areas are neither.


https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/13/politics/intelligence-assessment-dumb-bombs-israel-gaza/index.html

Last month Israel was able to assassinate four Hamas members in Lebanon with a drone in a crowded area of public space without killing anyone else.

Now compare to Gaza.

 

[RobDownSouth]

A genocide is a deliberate attempt to exterminate a group of people. Not every act of excessive brutality in war is a “genocide”.

Do you recall the early days of the genocide? When that first hospital got blown up and we argued for a week over who was at fault?

Fast forward three months and Israel has now destroyed all 35 hospitals within Gaza.
There is not a single functional hospital within Gazan borders.
And the world press hasn't made a single peep about it.

This is genocide
This is ethnic cleansing
This is terrorism, plain and simple.
This is an Israeli Jihad.

 

[Rightguide]

So should we bomb Iran?

When they kill Americans we should return the favor with enough force to deter a future attack.

 

[Rightguide]

Do you recall the early days of the genocide? When that first hospital got blown up and we argued for a week over who was at fault?

Fast forward three months and Israel has now destroyed all 35 hospitals within Gaza.
There is not a single functional hospital within Gazan borders.
And the world press hasn't made a single peep about it.

This is genocide
This is ethnic cleansing
This is terrorism, plain and simple.
This is an Israeli Jihad.

All of them used as bases for Hamas Terrorists.

 

[ll74]

When they kill Americans we should return the favor with enough force to deter a future attack.

That didn't answer the question.

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

All of them used as bases for Hamas Terrorists.

How convenient for your rhetoric.

 

[ll74]

All of them used as bases for Hamas Terrorists.

Worth noting that this claim has not been independently confirmed.

And even if it were, does not absolve responsibility of an attacker on hospitals.

 

[Rightguide]

Today's Israelis may still revile Adolf Hitler as a man, but they embrace his genocidal tactics against "subhumans" with a near-religious fervor.
See also: Lebensraum.

Of course, Hamas and the majority of Palestinians don't harbor those "near-religious" feelings about the Israelis, right?

 

[Rightguide]

Worth noting that this claim has not been independently confirmed.

And even if it were, does not absolve responsibility of an attacker on hospitals.

Independently by who, you?

 

[ll74]

Independently by who, you?

By people (countries, journalists..etc) other than Israel, dipshit.

 

[Deleted member 6736302]

Of course, Hamas and the majority of Palestinians don't harbor those "near-religious" feelings about the Israelis, right?

Where does the rhetoric of “an eye for an eye” end? When we all end up blind? One awful act does not justify others, ever.

Thats why the genocide act and other international laws were made.