Israel/Hamas PB Tribal Fight

[Dribble]

I haven't yet seen you call for Hamas to surrender.

Wonder why.

Because Israel's actions are the only one that should never happen from a civilized country. One expects terrorists to act like terrorists. Maybe...you are saying Israel is nothing but a sanctioned terrorist group?

 

[ll74]

Israeli intelligence is legendary. To the point that there are serious questions as to how this slipped past them. You think they don't know at least who the leaders are? They probably don't know the exact locations but that can be figured out. I'm not familiar with their military but I'm sure they have something similar to SEAL Team 6. Go in, get the people in charge, rinse, wash, repeat.

What they are doing now is at the point where they might as well just finish the job. I served and I sincerely believe that right now there is a young man in his early twenties, late teens whose earliest memory is that his brother was killed by a rocket or missile I personally built, loaded and delivered.

I'm reminded of the opening scene of 'Kill Bill' where The Bride tells the daughter that if she's still bitter in twenty years to do what she has to do.

So you believe the right way is a ground invasion but limited in scope. And what do you do when your targets are hiding all over Gaza?

I noticed how you still haven't answered the first question.

 

[Sean Renaud]

So you believe the right way is a ground invasion but limited in scope. And what do you do when your targets are hiding all over Gaza?

I noticed how you still haven't answered the first question.

Take them out one by one, you've got all the time in the world. How long did we take getting Bin Laden. Which I might add I think was the wrong move. Letting him die of old age would have been fine.

Sorry what was the first question?

 

[ll74]

Take them out one by one, you've got all the time in the world. How long did we take getting Bin Laden. Which I might add I think was the wrong move. Letting him die of old age would have been fine.

A sustained ground invasion. Got it.

And basically let Hamas continie to hide amongst civilians and fire rockets.at Israel. Better yet, escape into neighboring countries to wait it out and recruit more figjhters.

Sorry what was the first question?

Oddly enough, this forum keeps a thread of all posts for your reference.

 

[ll74]

Because Israel's actions are the only one that should never happen from a civilized country. One expects terrorists to act like terrorists. Maybe...you are saying Israel is nothing but a sanctioned terrorist group?

So Hamas shouldn't surrender and save lives. Instead, Israel should stop going after them and cease all hostilities.

Got it.

Hamas is the literal government of Gaza.

 

[ll74]

It was a huge mistake to move ground troops into Gaza.

What Israel should have done was a punitive bombing campaign to inflict several times as many casualties as the Palestinians did in their attack.

They've done that already.

Then they should have turned their attention and energy to reinforcing their defensive position to prevent another similar attack from taking place.

They're doing that as well.

That would have answered the calls to retaliate, given more protection to their own citizens, and avoided uniting a large chunk of the world against them.

And those responsible would get away with it.

America should be demanding a cease-fire and refusing to invest blood or money in this debacle. America should also be telling Israel that continuing to act out of emotion, or a strategy to eliminate the Palestinians entirely… will probably result in the end of Israel.

We've done that.

This situation is that serious… but Americans can’t see it that way because our media and politicians are both in Israel’s pocket.

If you give them the chance, they will take America down with them. Believe me they don’t give a fuck about America’s survival.

Who is "they"?

 

[Sean Renaud]

A sustained ground invasion. Got it.

And basically let Hamas continie to hide amongst civilians and fire rockets.at Israel. Better yet, escape into neighboring countries to wait it out and recruit more figjhters.



Oddly enough, this forum keeps a thread of all posts for your reference.

Would you call what we did to get Bin Laden a sustained ground invasion? Cus I think that would be a very strong interpretation of get in, get the job done, get out.

Ultimately yes just let Hamas keep firing rockets that aren't really doing anything. If they escape into other countries either go get them there or make a like a Disney Princess and let it go.

Yeah it does, but I'm not reading through pages and pages to figure out what the first question I was asked.

 

[ll74]

Would you call what we did to get Bin Laden a sustained ground invasion? Cus I think that would be a very strong interpretation of get in, get the job done, get out.

Yes.

Ultimately yes just let Hamas keep firing rockets that aren't really doing anything. If they escape into other countries either go get them there or make a like a Disney Princess and let it go.

What would prevent them from another major attack?

Yeah it does, but I'm not reading through pages and pages to figure out what the first question I was asked.

I asked it twice even. Does Israel have a right to seek justice for the Hamas attack?

 

[Sean Renaud]

I literally said yes and described how to do it properly so I would have considered that an answer. If you want to call a surgical strike with no long lasting presence a sustained ground war so be it. I never argue semantics. Israel should engage in a sustained ground war to get the leaders or at least a few of them.

 

[ll74]

Hamas - everything we do is justified

https://twitter.com/x/status/1719662664090075199

 

[ll74]

I literally said yes and described how to do it properly so I would have considered that an answer. If you want to call a surgical strike with no long lasting presence a sustained ground war so be it. I never argue semantics. Israel should engage in a sustained ground war to get the leaders or at least a few of them.

No, you didn't. You said "not in that way". I was looking for a simple yes or no. Thank you.

Israel is engaging in a sustained ground war to get the leaders of Hamas....though many are residing in Qatar and Iran

 

[Lazaran]

One thing:

Can we stop getting reports from "The Hamas health ministry" etc.

 

[Rotadom]

My aunt just posted this and I agree.

"It's okay to be heartbroken for more than one group of people at the same time"

 

[ll74]

One thing:

Can we stop getting reports from "The Hamas health ministry" etc.

The fog of war is real. I'd suggest not believing reports in real time.

That being said, I am fine with any source as long as it's noted that it is likely unconfirmed.

 

[Sean Renaud]

No, you didn't. You said "not in that way". I was looking for a simple yes or no. Thank you.

Israel is engaging in a sustained ground war to get the leaders of Hamas....though many are residing in Qatar and Iran

Not in that way heavily implies a yes. However if you need that word all by itself.

Yes.

However the actions they are taking are just going to make the situation worse for them. If they insist upon this and the other actions they have been taken they should just bomb until nothing is left alive and call it a day.

 

[ll74]

Not in that way heavily implies a yes. However if you need that word all by itself.

Yes.

The way you replied added qualifiers....yes, but.....

Either they do or they don't. I don't mind being critical of Israel, but acknowledging that their actions have a root valid reasoning is important.

However the actions they are taking are just going to make the situation worse for them. If they insist upon this and the other actions they have been taken they should just bomb until nothing is left alive and call it a day.

Worse than it has been? They literally have had to setup an "iron dome" which they (and the US) spend millions of dollars replenishing yearly, just so their citizens aren't killed from Gaza rockets.

Targeted attacks have actually been their typical response to rocket attacks and that resulted in the October 7 attack.

 

[Dribble]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/01/opinions/israel-flawed-strategy-defeating-hamas-pape/index.html

People see it for what it is

One must wonder...why any "civilized" country would embark in a war using tactics that have zero percent chance of success? Could it be...there is a motive behind this war not related to Hamas? Surely not...from any "civilized" country.

I wonder...why did Israel ignore the US warning twice? I wonder...why did Israel ignore the Egyptian warning? I wonder...why did Israel ignore the warning from the Palestinian Authority? Could they have ignored the warning...on purpose? Surely not. No "civilized" country would sacrifice their own citizens for some goal beyond elimination of Hamas...which they will never accomplish using the tactics being used today. Would they?

But then...they aren't very "civilized" murdering women and children are they?

One must ask...what is really going on here? Seems to me...total destruction of Gaza...forcing those that survive to leave. But I can't see into the hearts of uncivilized humans. Maybe...they just like murdering people like Hamas does?

The ignorant ask...well Dribble...if you know so much...what do you suggest? I would allow the Qatar path to resolve itself to the fullest extent. Why...if this about the murdering of Israelis...are they (Israel) willing to sacrifice the hostages? To prove what? Back to the real motive. But let's ignore that.

Let's change directions...shall we? Tell me...how the path Israel has chosen results in the elimination of Hamas. Do you understand...Hamas is a gang compared to Hezbollah. Wouldn't that...be a more worthy target for a "civilized"" country? Or maybe...go for the head...and go after Iran. Do you think either of these groups won't seek retribution? Eye for an eye?

So again...here we are asking the same question. What is the true motive of Israel? Because no matter which path we look...what is observed...isn't fitting the words said to explain it.

If our country...the US...is to wear a target on our back...and we will be held accountable because that's how terrorists function...shouldn't we know?

 

[Dribble]

My aunt just posted this and I agree.

"It's okay to be heartbroken for more than one group of people at the same time"

It really is that simple. We can not allow our humanity dissolve into that of Hamas. Else...we are no better than Hamas

Edit: maybe I should add Israel next to Hamas? We cannot allow our humanity to dissolve into that of Hamas and Israel. Else we are no better than either

 

[Sean Renaud]

The way you replied added qualifiers....yes, but.....

Either they do or they don't. I don't mind being critical of Israel, but acknowledging that their actions have a root valid reasoning is important.


Worse than it has been? They literally have had to setup an "iron dome" which they (and the US) spend millions of dollars replenishing yearly, just so their citizens aren't killed from Gaza rockets.

Targeted attacks have actually been their typical response to rocket attacks and that resulted in the October 7 attack.

Either they do or they don't is bullshit because a sustained ground war is fundamentally different from carpet bombing. IF you're gonna carpet bomb then at least don't pretend its about justice.

I get it, not their problem, but we're seeing an even faster increase in anti-semitism in the US probably globally but I haven't looked into Europe. Besides I think Europe in particular France kinda fucks themselves.

I've always had a hard time supporting Israel in anyway other than "damage has been done fuck it". I don't understand how you punish someone by taking their land for the sins of people a continent away that had nothing to do with you.

The entire reason HAMAS was able to take over was because it was obvious the PLO wasn't getting shit. History has shown that when people feel they are not getting their needs met violence eventually happens.

 

[ll74]

Either they do or they don't is bullshit because a sustained ground war is fundamentally different from carpet bombing. IF you're gonna carpet bomb then at least don't pretend its about justice.

Excessive bombing is definitely worth criticism, I agree

I get it, not their problem, but we're seeing an even faster increase in anti-semitism in the US probably globally but I haven't looked into Europe. Besides I think Europe in particular France kinda fucks themselves.

Antisemitism and antiMuslim attitudes are definitely rising. War does that.

Same thing happened with Russia and Ukraine.

I've always had a hard time supporting Israel in anyway other than "damage has been done fuck it". I don't understand how you punish someone by taking their land for the sins of people a continent away that had nothing to do with you.

No one should unequivocally support anyone.

The entire reason HAMAS was able to take over was because it was obvious the PLO wasn't getting shit. History has shown that when people feel they are not getting their needs met violence eventually happens.

I agree. And Hamas hasn't allowed for elections since 2006. To say that Palestinians voted for this is another bullshit talking point I've seen. I typically respond with asking if they would support Obama still as President today? (Especially since they are.typically right leaning)

It's difficult to understand the path going forward on this....I don't see Israel leaving Gaza to its own

 

[Dribble]

Who was our last "president"? And who did he put in charge of working with Israel?. His son in law? What is his "faith"? Interesting. Same people running a great media blitz covering up all past discretions. That same media can't be used to justify war crimes?

It is simple...if you have a stated goal...use a tactic that results in that goal. Not a tactic guaranteed to fail. Otherwise...start asking questions...what is the real motive here?

 

[Dribble]

It's difficult to understand the path going forward on this....I don't see Israel leaving Gaza to its own

See...it isn't hard is it? Now all you have to do is accept the reality...that WAS THEIR TRUE MOTIVE

 

[ll74]

See...it isn't hard is it? Now all you have to do is accept the reality...that WAS THEIR TRUE MOTIVE

Their true motive is the safety of its citizens.

Your useless and biased opinion notwithstanding.

 

[ll74]

I found this tracker of attacks on Israel by Hamas since 2001

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/palestinian-rocket-and-mortar-attacks-against-israel

 

[ll74]

Abraham Accords signatory, Bahrain strangely silent on the Oct 7 attack.

https://allarab.news/bahraini-state-news-agency-goes-silent-amid-israels-war-with-hamas/