What does gender mean to you?

[SissySalina]

As growing up "gender" was just an identifier and nothing more to this sissy. If you had an outty you were a male and if you had an inny you were a female and that was all, sex had nothing to do with it.

 

[SPARTAN047]

It would be how you think of yourself.

 

[TheF1x3r]

What does gender mean to you? What role does it play in your life and what importance to you place on it in the relationships you have with those around you?

Gender meaning
Gender, to me, means the same thing as sex. It identifies who carries eggs and who carries wonderful salty bois.

People, these days, have kind of joined what I understand to be gender and what I understand to be identity.

For example I met a person at the weekend who identified as a man, but was born with the egg kit. So I treated the person as a man (consciously, but subconsciously I probably treated them like a woman). They would say that their gender is male, but I would say their gender is female but their identity is male.

Significance to me
It determines my choice of words and not much else.

I am sexually dominant and devious; I will drop a load on, in or around areas of interest regardless of which set of parts a person has. The main thing is that I like them.

Interpersonally, I'm have a level of psychological education that makes me aware of the statistically significant differences in personality traits depending on which reproductive parts a person is born with and that can determine my behaviour to some degree when I don't know the person that well.

And.. this bit is fascinating...

Everyone, consciously or not, will treat people different based upon the parts they believe another person to have.

And lastly... I try to be good to everyone who doesn't give me cause to do otherwise. If everyone tried to do that, there'd be no gender argument.

 

[TheF1x3r]

It would be how you think of yourself.

What is how I think of you called?

 

[Escierto]

Gender meaning
Gender, to me, means the same thing as sex. It identifies who carries eggs and who carries wonderful salty bois.

People, these days, have kind of joined what I understand to be gender and what I understand to be identity.

For example I met a person at the weekend who identified as a man, but was born with the egg kit. So I treated the person as a man (consciously, but subconsciously I probably treated them like a woman). They would say that their gender is male, but I would say their gender is female but their identity is male.

Significance to me
It determines my choice of words and not much else.

I am sexually dominant and devious; I will drop a load on, in or around areas of interest regardless of which set of parts a person has. The main thing is that I like them.

Interpersonally, I'm have a level of psychological education that makes me aware of the statistically significant differences in personality traits depending on which reproductive parts a person is born with and that can determine my behaviour to some degree when I don't know the person that well.

And.. this bit is fascinating...

Everyone, consciously or not, will treat people different based upon the parts they believe another person to have.

And lastly... I try to be good to everyone who doesn't give me cause to do otherwise. If everyone tried to do that, there'd be no gender argument.

I know that my girlfriend has a penis yet I never treat her as a man. In fact, she has told me several times that I always make her feel like a woman but to me that’s easy. She looks, acts, moves and sounds like a woman. Usually I forget she even has a penis.

 

[stickygirl]

Gender meaning
Gender, to me, means the same thing as sex. It identifies who carries eggs and who carries wonderful salty bois.

People, these days, have kind of joined what I understand to be gender and what I understand to be identity.

For example I met a person at the weekend who identified as a man, but was born with the egg kit. So I treated the person as a man (consciously, but subconsciously I probably treated them like a woman). They would say that their gender is male, but I would say their gender is female but their identity is male.

Significance to me
It determines my choice of words and not much else.

I am sexually dominant and devious; I will drop a load on, in or around areas of interest regardless of which set of parts a person has. The main thing is that I like them.

Interpersonally, I'm have a level of psychological education that makes me aware of the statistically significant differences in personality traits depending on which reproductive parts a person is born with and that can determine my behaviour to some degree when I don't know the person that well.

And.. this bit is fascinating...

Everyone, consciously or not, will treat people different based upon the parts they believe another person to have.

And lastly... I try to be good to everyone who doesn't give me cause to do otherwise. If everyone tried to do that, there'd be no gender argument.

So how would you address someone intersex?

 

[TheF1x3r]

Usually I forget she even has a penis.

This is the wonder of psychology - you do perceive her as a woman and your behaviour is oriented itself that way. And hey... that's a wonderful compliment to her! You must make her very happy

So how would you address someone intersex?

You mean as in how I would speak to them? I haven't actually met an intersex person yet (as far as I know).

In a formal setting, if nobody told me then I'd need to ask (that is a legal thing here). Informally I'd probably ask a mutual friend or someone else in the circle who knows them. If all else fails though I don't mind sticking my neck out and asking, I'd rather be thought silly than rude. It's ok to not know something

What about you? How would you approach that situation?

 

[stickygirl]

You mean as in how I would speak to them? I haven't actually met an intersex person yet (as far as I know).

In a formal setting, if nobody told me then I'd need to ask (that is a legal thing here). Informally I'd probably ask a mutual friend or someone else in the circle who knows them. If all else fails though I don't mind sticking my neck out and asking, I'd rather be thought silly than rude. It's ok to not know something

What about you? How would you approach that situation?

If their gender presentation was aligned with social norms it sends a clear message that that is how they wish to be regarded. If for instance, they called themselves Sarah, you'd use feminine pronouns. If they called themselves Kell or Sam and their appearance is not clear, then stick with neutral pronouns until they say otherwise.

The frequent problem in discussion is that people ask for explicit definitions, when modern presentations of roles and gender are now less distinct - women wearing trousers - imagine! . If someone is sincere in their misgendering then a brief apology and correction is all that's required.

Cynics will writhe with indignation that some horror has been forced on them by observing a small matter of etiquette. The same person would think nothing of apologising and moving on if they addressed a woman as Miss instead of Mrs. Same thing.

 

[Escierto]

This is the wonder of psychology - you do perceive her as a woman and your behaviour is oriented itself that way. And hey... that's a wonderful compliment to her! You must make her very happy

As a matter of fact, she does tell me how happy it makes her (although it’s not like I am making an effort since it just comes as my natural response to her).

 

[TheF1x3r]

As a matter of fact, she does tell me how happy it makes her (although it’s not like I am making an effort since it just comes as my natural response to her).

That's great - some people never find that

 

[SPARTAN047]

What is how I think of you called?

Being a naughty boy?

 

[TheF1x3r]

Cynics will writhe with indignation that some horror has been forced on them by observing a small matter of etiquette. The same person would think nothing of apologising and moving on if they addressed a woman as Miss instead of Mrs. Same thing.

and thank god, because how would you see into their hearts otherwise?

Reminds me of a pivotal moment in my life (if I may briefly indulge myself)

Two men at a wedding. Both smartly attired, but one sparkles more than the other. Mr Sparkles is making fun of Mr Mundane for a) not having a tie bar and b) having a scruffy handkerchief instead of a neat pocket square.

A toddler clatters to the floor nearby and starts heading toward us, boogers and tears. Mr Mundane wipes the kids face up with the handkerchief and Mr Sparkles stands there looking like a set of bollocks (testicles) on a pool (billiards) table.

I would later find out that you don't wear a tie bar if you have a waistcoat. Mr Mundane was a gentleman and Mr Sparkles was dressed up as gentleman.

The heck that have to do with gender? Anyone causing a stink over a minor inconvenience (either side of the disagreement) is just dressed up like they care.

 

[TheF1x3r]

Being a naughty boy?

Oh that's not nice, come and sit that to my face!

 

[SPARTAN047]

Oh that's not nice, come and sit that to my face!

Say, sit, or perhaps smother your face?

 

[TheF1x3r]

Say, sit, and smother your face.

Fixed it

 

[AlexBailey]

And.. this bit is fascinating...

Everyone, consciously or not, will treat people different based upon the parts they believe another person to have.

Fascinating.

Why do you suppose someone would treat some differently based on what genitals they have?

What difference does it make socially unless they are wanting to be intimate or procreate with them?

 

[BrendaBear]

Fascinating.

Why do you suppose someone would treat some differently based on what genitals that have?

What difference does it make socially unless they are wanting to be intimate or procreate with them?

I personally don’t think we treat people differently because of genitals… we treat everyone (presumably unconsciously) as we think is appropriate based on what we observe of the other person.

If a woman is standing in line at the grocery store and another woman steps up behind her, she is going to be far more relaxed then if a guy comes up that looks scary to her (maybe he is really big, or looks like he just escaped prison, etc).

There is inherent baggage between men and women because of past experiences. A pretty young woman is going to be very on edge if she sees some creepy looking guy staring at her. She will feel very different if it is another woman her age staring at her.

That is not because of genitalia right?

And socially, men are more polite in mixed company they when they are only with other men. And conversely, women act differently when they are in a group of only women, then when they are in mixed company.

 

[AlexBailey]

I personally don’t think we treat people differently because of genitals… we treat everyone (presumably unconsciously) as we think is appropriate based on what we observe of the other person.

If a woman is standing in line at the grocery store and another woman steps up behind her, she is going to be far more relaxed then if a guy comes up that looks scary to her (maybe he is really big, or looks like he just escaped prison, etc).

There is inherent baggage between men and women because of past experiences. A pretty young woman is going to be very on edge if she sees some creepy looking guy staring at her. She will feel very different if it is another woman her age staring at her.

That is not because of genitalia right?

And socially, men are more polite in mixed company they when they are only with other men. And conversely, women act differently when they are in a group of only women, then when they are in mixed company.

I agree with your points and will add that this is the product of social constructs, not biology.

 

[Escierto]

I personally don’t think we treat people differently because of genitals… we treat everyone (presumably unconsciously) as we think is appropriate based on what we observe of the other person.

If a woman is standing in line at the grocery store and another woman steps up behind her, she is going to be far more relaxed then if a guy comes up that looks scary to her (maybe he is really big, or looks like he just escaped prison, etc).

There is inherent baggage between men and women because of past experiences. A pretty young woman is going to be very on edge if she sees some creepy looking guy staring at her. She will feel very different if it is another woman her age staring at her.

That is not because of genitalia right?

And socially, men are more polite in mixed company they when they are only with other men. And conversely, women act differently when they are in a group of only women, then when they are in mixed company.

I don’t think men have any idea of how different their world is than it is for women. I think most men assume that it’s the same but they are so wrong.

When I go out, I am so rarely apprehensive about other people or animals (stray dogs!) that I can’t actually think of the last time that I was. It’s a complete non-issue as I believe it is for most white men. Men of color of course also live in a different world than white men.

Because they are unaware of what a different world they live in, I don’t think men do enough to assuage the justified fears women have about men. Really if I was a woman, I would assume that every man I encounter is a potential rapist.

 

[AlexBailey]

I don’t think men have any idea of how different their world is than it is for women. I think most men assume that it’s the same but they are so wrong.

When I go out, I am so rarely apprehensive about other people or animals (stray dogs!) that I can’t actually think of the last time that I was. It’s a complete non-issue as I believe it is for most white men. Men of color of course also live in a different world than white men.

Because they are unaware of what a different world they live in, I don’t think men do enough to assuage the justified fears women have about men. Really if I was a woman, I would assume that every man I encounter is a potential rapist.

Presenting as non-cis can make you acutely aware of that dynamic.

I was often misgendered in my early twenties and have been groped by men in crowds on several occasions. I’ve had cars slow down as I’m walking down the street and had guys whistle or yell to me. It’s scary and dangerous to be alone and vulnerable in those situations.

There have been many times when I’ve seen men’s attitudes flip from curious attraction to anger as they realize I’m not what they were expecting - and I’ve seen a very similar reaction by some men who were rejected when they tried to hit on some of my lesbian friends.

I think a lot of that is based on toxic attitudes and lust, but not all of it. I think some of it is simply jarring confusion about their own assumptions.

I go out in public dressed in non-gender conforming ways but when I do I feel a dire need to remain in a high state of situational awareness.

 

[Escierto]

Presenting as non-cis can make you acutely aware of that dynamic.

I was often misgendered in my early twenties and have been groped by men in crowds on several occasions. I’ve had cars slow down as I’m walking down the street and had guys whistle or yell to me. It’s scary and dangerous to be alone and vulnerable in those situations.

There have been many times when I’ve seen men’s attitudes flip from curious attraction to anger as they realize I’m not what they were expecting - and I’ve seen a very similar reaction by some men who were rejected when they tried to hit on some of my lesbian friends.

I think a lot of that is based on toxic attitudes and lust, but not all of it. I think some of it is simply jarring confusion about their own assumptions.

I go out in public dressed in non-gender conforming ways but when I do I feel a dire need to remain in a high state of situational awareness.

Meanwhile schmucks like me can wander around without being aware of anything. It’s not fair, he said!

 

[TrailerHitch]

Biologically you are either male or female, no matter what you claim as a gender. You can identify as male or female but genitalia are the definitive answer of what you are biologically.

 

[AlexBailey]

Biologically you are either male or female, no matter what you claim as a gender. You can identify as male or female but genitalia are the definitive answer of what you are biologically.

And why does biological identity matter how someone chooses to present socially?

 

[stickygirl]

I agree with your points and will add that this is the product of social constructs, not biology.

I don't disagree but you make it sound like a theoretical interaction, while we're saddled with convention. The fact is we do react differently to sexes, based on both culture and for personal reasons ie safety.

Speaking as a woman, until we have reached a Star Trek level of non-discrimination, then our first motivation is personal safety, then social etiquette, then I suppose we can talk about the rare instances of hooking up with someone sexually. The nirvana of equality exist only in rare, artificial situations, not the grocery store, train station or darkened street.

To the point of gender presentation, we can still safely refer to convention as a guide. If someone presents as female, with their dress and demeanour, it obliges everyone to respect that. Plenty of trans women have their born-with genitals but there's no need to know what they have between their legs: if they act as a woman that should be respected.

Most red-necks get their knickers in a stew over the fear of being 'caught out' as queer. What they never consider is that they've already met transgender people and never noticed... maybe that's what keeps them awake at night!?

 

[Escierto]

I don't disagree but you make it sound like a theoretical interaction, while we're saddled with convention. The fact is we do react differently to sexes, based on both culture and for personal reasons ie safety.

Speaking as a woman, until we have reached a Star Trek level of non-discrimination, then our first motivation is personal safety, then social etiquette, then I suppose we can talk about the rare instances of hooking up with someone sexually. The nirvana of equality exist only in rare, artificial situations, not the grocery store, train station or darkened street.

To the point of gender presentation, we can still safely refer to convention as a guide. If someone presents as female, with their dress and demeanour, it obliges everyone to respect that. Plenty of trans women have their born-with genitals but there's no need to know what they have between their legs: if they act as a woman that should be respected.

Most red-necks get their knickers in a stew over the fear of being 'caught out' as queer. What they never consider is that they've already met transgender people and never noticed... maybe that's what keeps them awake at night!?

Speaking of the worried rednecks, one’s sexual identity must be resting on very precarious grounds if you are constantly concerned about being caught out.

In the poor benighted Third World country of the Philippines, everyone knows (so she says) that my girlfriend is transgender with the genitalia that she was born with but they still treat her as a woman. What is so freaking difficult about this?