What does gender mean to you?

[KrisOPossum]

This question is posed to everyone on the forum, whether you're gay, straight, trans, cis, nonbinary or anything else.

I've been doing a bit of thinking lately about the idea of gender and why we place so much importance on it in society, media,relationships, etc. It seems to be something that so many people find to be a pressing issue, myself included to an extent, but I don't quite understand why.

So to the people of this forum, I would like to ask: What does gender mean to you? What role does it play in your life and what importance to you place on it in the relationships you have with those around you?

 

[Rob_Royale]

My parents are boomers, Christians, and card-carrying Republicans. Despite this, they raised my sister and me without ANY prejudice whatsoever. No racial bias, no sexist BS, and no hang-ups with people from other cultures, or religions. Homosexuality was something they didn't understand and just filed it under people who are different, like hippies. BUT, just like all the rest, treat them with the respect and dignity that they deserve, because we're all God's children.

As I grew up, I conformed to all but the God part, but that's another thread. I've studied the gender thing enough to realize that it's more fluid than just man or woman, just like straight or gay, and I've known enough people who don't fall under those labels. I pity them and am intensely proud of them in the same feeling. In this world, it takes a yard of guts to stand up and say, "I'm not like you and you don't have to like it, but you do have to deal with it!" Pretty damn courageous if you ask me.

To answer the question finally, it doesn't mean anything to me. I let people be who they want to be, love who they want to love, and pray how they want to pray or not. Treat me with respect, you will get the same in return.

 

[ZacharyFagg]

I usually just consider myself a femboi, or a feminine male. I never consider myself a man, as I am not remotely manly or masculine. I do like the title non binary, and feels it fits me, but maybe it doesn't. While I may look and act like a woman sometimes, I still consider myself a male.
I don't know. People just like labels.

 

[Escierto]

This is a question that I have spent a lot of time thinking about. I am a man but when I ask myself what it is that defines the male gender, I can’t come up with anything that you couldn’t apply to women as well. The most important thing in my life is taking care of my children and grandchildren which is usually something you associate with women. Men are frequently very poor nurturers but there is nothing I love more than nurturing my chickies. Maybe I should have been a woman but I feel like a man - I just don’t know what that is

 

[cubbyfire04]

I believe the term "gender" has quickly become the most misunderstood word in the history of language.

What was, in the past, a definitive descriptor of the expected distinctions between the two biological sexes, is now a term that has evolved in lock-step with the exploration of our own social and sexual identities. It becomes a problematic only for those people who wish to conflate gender and biological sex as synonymous concepts. They are far from it.

Biological sex is binary. Like it, or not, it is a finite science. It is THE reason our species can proliferate. Many people who disagree with this concept tend to also believe gender is a social construct...

Which means they believe gender roles are "made up". Many people who disagree with this concept tend to believe gender isn't a spectrum...

Which means they believe gender is binary.

Herein lies the confusion. Some people choose not to, or are unable to, distinguish between the two. I look at it like this.

Biological sex is as concrete as a law of physics, but to consider gender a social construct actually underestimates the breadth of the concept. It isn't made up or make-believe.

To me, gender is the measure of where an individual happens to land on the social spectrum. That measure is as unique as a fingerprint. And that's ok. The sooner we can all agree that men just aren't 100% masculine and women's aren't just 100% feminine, the quicker we can get back to a more harmonious society.

 

[stickygirl]

I believe the term "gender" has quickly become the most misunderstood word in the history of language.

What was, in the past, a definitive descriptor of the expected distinctions between the two biological sexes, is now a term that has evolved in lock-step with the exploration of our own social and sexual identities. It becomes a problematic only for those people who wish to conflate gender and biological sex as synonymous concepts. They are far from it.

Biological sex is binary. Like it, or not, it is a finite science. It is THE reason our species can proliferate. Many people who disagree with this concept tend to also believe gender is a social construct...

Which means they believe gender roles are "made up". Many people who disagree with this concept tend to believe gender isn't a spectrum...

Which means they believe gender is binary.

Herein lies the confusion. Some people choose not to, or are unable to, distinguish between the two. I look at it like this.

Biological sex is as concrete as a law of physics, but to consider gender a social construct actually underestimates the breadth of the concept. It isn't made up or make-believe.

To me, gender is the measure of where an individual happens to land on the social spectrum. That measure is as unique as a fingerprint. And that's ok. The sooner we can all agree that men just aren't 100% masculine and women's aren't just 100% feminine, the quicker we can get back to a more harmonious society.

I'd mostly agree with your framing of biological sex, but would just mention that as well as XX and XY there can be genetic variations such as XXY that have a marked effect on the individual. There are other Intersex variations that are part of our LGBTQIA+ umbrella.

I was asked years ago on another thread if I thought gender was performance and at the time I wasn't sure how to answer it. If you hear this question, you might associate 'performance' with theatre and that performing a gender was simply role-playing, even deceitful, which it isn't. The question points towards not just how we are 'read' or 'marked' in society ie 'is that a woman or man walking towards me because that will affect how I interact with them' but also how an individual perceives their own gender.

That starts to become more complicated, because there is not a definitive test for proof, other than taking the person's word for it. Should we doubt the conviction of people who presents as transgender? The answer to that is affected by what happens if we ignore them, because there's a good chance they'll try to end their lives*. Simply put, you can either support a trans person and help them rebuild their life to become happy, productive citizens or accept the high number of resulting suicides.

Society will eventually become more accepting of gender beyond the simple binary male/female. Being able to codify another person's sex by their gender presentation is a short-hand trick to fit with pretty much every aspect of our western, christian society. Our laws are based on christian doctrine and so is our language so it's perhaps understandable why some people have such a problem being objective when the lens they use is so biased.

I could go but I'll leave space for others. I suspect Golden Compulsion will have some useful input when he's up to it.

* eta - there's a lot more to that but you get my drift.

 

[FeelingLikeMyself]

Gender is just how you present yourself outwardly to the world. Sex is biological. Neither are binary.

As far as personal attraction, personality and attitude count for way more than appearance

 

[cubbyfire04]

I'd mostly agree with your framing of biological sex, but would just mention that as well as XX and XY there can be genetic variations such as XXY that have a marked effect on the individual. There are other Intersex variations that are part of our LGBTQIA+ umbrella.

I was asked years ago on another thread if I thought gender was performance and at the time I wasn't sure how to answer it. If you hear this question, you might associate 'performance' with theatre and that performing a gender was simply role-playing, even deceitful, which it isn't. The question points towards not just how we are 'read' or 'marked' in society ie 'is that a woman or man walking towards me because that will affect how I interact with them' but also how an individual perceives their own gender.

That starts to become more complicated, because there is not a definitive test for proof, other than taking the person's word for it. Should we doubt the conviction of people who presents as transgender? The answer to that is affected by what happens if we ignore them, because there's a good chance they'll try to end their lives*. Simply put, you can either support a trans person and help them rebuild their life to become happy, productive citizens or accept the high number of resulting suicides.

Society will eventually become more accepting of gender beyond the simple binary male/female. Being able to codify another person's sex by their gender presentation is a short-hand trick to fit with pretty much every aspect of our western, christian society. Our laws are based on christian doctrine and so is our language so it's perhaps understandable why some people have such a problem being objective when the lens they use is so biased.

I could go but I'll leave space for others. I suspect Golden Compulsion will have some useful input when he's up to it.

* eta - there's a lot more to that but you get my drift.

Love this take... In all honesty, there's just so much to unpack and so many nuanced variables to consider, that it's impossible to do this topic justice without a full blown, in-person discussion on the matter. Perhaps that is another reason the objective biases exist... It requires so much effort to give it the analysis it deserves, that people (both pro & anti-trans) just give up on caring. Unfortunately, that's the exact opposite of what we need.

 

[plesmoreagain]

Hmmm... I have never been with a Trans, so can't speak to that, but when I am with a girl I want a girl, when I am with a guy I want a guy.
I guess there are people who are very confused at who they are and how to fit in, but frankly, being who you are starts with who you are, not some made up scenario.

 

[Escierto]

Hmmm... I have never been with a Trans, so can't speak to that, but when I am with a girl I want a girl, when I am with a guy I want a guy.
I guess there are people who are very confused at who they are and how to fit in, but frankly, being who you are starts with who you are, not some made up scenario.

My girlfriend is transgender and when I am with her, I completely forget what is between her legs, she is just so naturally feminine.

 

[stickygirl]

Hmmm... I have never been with a Trans, so can't speak to that, but when I am with a girl I want a girl, when I am with a guy I want a guy.
I guess there are people who are very confused at who they are and how to fit in, but frankly, being who you are starts with who you are, not some made up scenario.

I get that, but imagine if you'd lived your formative years with a question that you can't quite verbalise or put your finger on. When you finally learn about the possibility, then suddenly the scales fall from your eyes. I didn't figure it out my gender until I was close to puberty and for me it grew like a thunderstorm. Society is generally more relaxed about the gender of children but when the boundaries and rules later start to close in, the truth dawns on you - "This is all wrong. I'm not that gender."

Remember Morpheus telling Neo 'What you know you can't explain. You feel it. You've felt it your entire life... like a splinter in your mind'. The Matrix is one huge transgender allegory!

The expression of gender can occur at any age - there is no rule. Some people take a lifetime to come out, others verbalise it as soon as they can speak, but that doesn't qualify their 'trans-ness'. Other people might recognise both aspects of gender within themselves, but neither side is compelling enough to make a permanent change = genderfluid folks.

You mentioned your own changing sexuality, which sounds pretty healthy. Only you can decide your emotions and desires and it isn't for other people to police them. My own sexuality isn't fixed either and I've loved both sexes and never thought there was anything wrong, until you step outside and risk being policed.

 

[KrisOPossum]

Hmmm... I have never been with a Trans, so can't speak to that, but when I am with a girl I want a girl, when I am with a guy I want a guy.
I guess there are people who are very confused at who they are and how to fit in, but frankly, being who you are starts with who you are, not some made up scenario.

Honestly, it sounds like you're the only one who's confused here

 

[stickygirl]

Gender is something you do.

Yes, I include this description for cisgender men and women, for all transgender people, for nonbinary people, and for people of all sexualities. This is for people who have any gender roles in any cultures or societies.

The idea that we identify as a gender is extremely new. The idea that we do gender is technically newly described, but it's not a new concept. This is the reason transgender people (without that terminology) have existed for a long time and in different ways.

"Doing gender" is defined here by Candace West and Don H. Zimmerman. They focus on cisgender, heterosexual men and women, but I believe the same applies to all people. And we can complicate the picture by talking about how gender is affected by our other social identities (race, ethnicity, religion, etc.), while still keeping it simple: that gender is something we do, not something we intrinsically are.

Specifically, on p. 126 (see below for simplified version because academics use too many word when few word do trick):



Simplified (my version of above):



Based on this theory, this means that for example, a transgender woman individually does gender by performing conventional femininity, her own sense of what womanhood is, etc. So for that reason, she is a Woman. There are many types of Women (black women, white women, poor women, rich women). But her doing of gender interacts with Institutions, including the ones that mark her at birth as "male." This makes her a Trans Woman.

If that never happened, and if there were gender roles carved into our society specifically for her experience, "trans woman" might not even be a word. She would be called something entirely different. She would fit into a completely different gender.

Cisgender women (women assigned female at birth) also do gender. They do it in how they present themselves everyday---and how they changes based on where they are, and who they are with.

That's what it means to me!

Hmm... I understand what you're saying I think, but what about very young trans children? I'm thinking of the ones who insist on their gender as soon as they can speak? I realise children vacuum up information unconsciously before speech, but at that age they are not 'doing gender' but claiming the concept for themselves without reference to broader societal practices. If they recognise their mother or sisters ( or father, brothers for trans men) as being the same as them but they have a nursery, toys and clothes to match their sex, then how do they see past that camouflage as not matching their gender?

For what it's worth, I've never been comfortable with this verb identify in this context. It sounded neat when it first emerged but it has been so maligned since, in order to mock us, that I prefer doing.

I listened to an interesting BBC radio program, with Melvin Bragg. The life and work of Elizabeth Anscombe, a moral philosopher was discussed at length. While it doesn't have bearing specifically on gender, her seminal work was 'Intention' in 1957. She made plain the character of human action and will. I'm sure she would have had views of gender roles as she faced all the usual crap of being an academic in a 'man's world'. You might be able to pick up the podcast link...

 

[Escierto]

Hmm... I understand what you're saying I think, but what about very young trans children? I'm thinking of the ones who insist on their gender as soon as they can speak? I realise children vacuum up information unconsciously before speech, but at that age they are not 'doing gender' but claiming the concept for themselves without reference to broader societal practices. If they recognise their mother or sisters ( or father, brothers for trans men) as being the same as them but they have a nursery, toys and clothes to match their sex, then how do they see past that camouflage as not matching their gender?

For what it's worth, I've never been comfortable with this verb identify in this context. It sounded neat when it first emerged but it has been so maligned since, in order to mock us, that I prefer doing.

I listened to an interesting BBC radio program, with Melvin Bragg. The life and work of Elizabeth Anscombe, a moral philosopher was discussed at length. While it doesn't have bearing specifically on gender, her seminal work was 'Intention' in 1957. She made plain the character of human action and will. I'm sure she would have had views of gender roles as she faced all the usual crap of being an academic in a 'man's world'. You might be able to pick up the podcast link...

Very good point. My girlfriend says that she has been a girl ever since she can remember and her family always accepted her as such. She was definitely one of those young trans children.

 

[none2_none2]

This is a question that I have spent a lot of time thinking about. I am a man but when I ask myself what it is that defines the male gender, I can’t come up with anything that you couldn’t apply to women as well. The most important thing in my life is taking care of my children and grandchildren which is usually something you associate with women. Men are frequently very poor nurturers but there is nothing I love more than nurturing my chickies. Maybe I should have been a woman but I feel like a man - I just don’t know what that is

So much of my sexuality throughout my life has been about wanting a man's love. I'm NOT talking about what most associate with a man seducing a woman (romantic dinners, flowers, jewelry, etc), but rather as a father caring for his son, a big brother caring for a smaller brother, etc. I moved to the country side when I was 48 (now 63), and remember watching how a hen collected her chicks under her wing at night to keep them warm and protected. I thought how I wish more fathers were that way towards their young.

I won't lie and say I would have been 100% str8 had my dad NOT been a jerk (and luckily, I only lived with him for 3.5 years (11 to 14.5 years of age). There were also other emotional things. I had a wonderful grandpa. (My household in my early years consisted of my mother, grandmother, and grandpa who unfortunately died when I was 7.5 years of age.) He was such a wonderful man. Sadly, he struggled with a cancerous brain tumor years before the wonderful medical world had diagnostic tools like MRI's that might have caught it early enough to make a difference... Anyway, he would kiss his nurses on the cheek -- not because he was a womanizer, but because he had a stroke which made it hard to talk or move his hands. (As a tangent, I find it so silly how some men are so turned off by m2m kissing, some health problems such as stroke make things like a kiss all a man has to offer to thank someone -- male or female.)

Anyway, grandma thought that young people shouldn't deal with death. I understand her love for me and that logic. However, it means I never got to say goodbye to my grandpa and tell him just how much I love him. So part of my sexuality is that I want to be around a man I love as much as possible, because he could suddenly die, and I would be alone again. I know it sounds pretty pathetic, but inside this senior body is a boy who missed his grandpa.

As I said before I wish I could impregnate a man to create life with someone I love. However sometimes I wiash that life was me. To somehow return to that mythical male womb where I can be protected from the turmoil out in the real world.

I'm just so fortunate that I have my partner. Though I have ED, I know he loved me despite such problems. I hope to God I never outlive him as I couldn't bear the though of him not coming home from work, not sitting near me, not having his body next to mine at night, etc.

As to gender roles, I suppose I'm a slave to the concept as well as do not understand them at all. I don't wish to be a woman, and I don't wish my partner to be one either. However, I do see gender roles blended. I wish I could empregnate my masculine partner. I wish to watch him raisie children that have eome part of me to bind us. I do wish I didn't have ED so I could be inside him. Yet, I love doing things for him. I like doing his laundry. I like getting him whatever he needs from the grocery store. If you were to interact with us, you would think he couldn't possibly be gay as he is so masculine in appearance and attitude. I'm not effeminate. He simply is so much more of a stereotypical man. Anyway, I'm just fortunate that I have my little peace of heaven on earth since he puts up with all my flaws. We are simply two men, making the most out of life together.

 

[stickygirl]

Little children count for this.

By the age of like... 3, children are beginning to understand what gender is. Because we are teaching them. It is a fundamental part of our society, as is race. These things aren't actually intrinsic parts of human biology (penis is human biology--masculinity is not). But we teach them to our children.

And children begin to become self-conscious. By the age of 4-5, this self-consciousness congeals. The early childhood wonderment and self-importance, that being the center of the world-ness (drawing themselves the biggest in every family portrait, that feeling of being able to do everything and anything, etc.), doesn't go away yet but also becomes a time when they become aware of how dirty they are. How they are dressed. And how they might want to change that.

It's when they become self-conscious.

That is not necessarily negative. It means they care about how they look. And this basically always happens no matter how we raise our kids, because everyone cares about how they look. If you care about looking like a stinky grungy person, then your kid will start caring about looking like that. Or whatever.

Children are also smarter than just the crap their parents feed them. At 2 years old, yes, they are just mostly listening to whatever their parents say because they only have Parent(s) to trust. That is it, that's the world. But it doesn't take long before they take cues from other people.

My theory and understanding of child development is that a young one's gender comes not just from their parent's obsession with pink or blue, but from their peer group and other sources.

Rarely any child is raised in a steel cage sitting in front of their parents. That's cruel. Also, too much work for parents. You send this kid to day care. Preschool. The kid has friends. A babysitter. The kid sees other kids outside or on the street. The kid watches TV. How many sources of gendered behavior is that? Hundreds. If not thousands, of routinized gender behaviors.

I think kids pick and choose without realizing what they are doing (just like adults). The child assigned and raised male one day thinks about wearing the dress that the princess on TV is wearing, and then thinks, that seems like fun! Other children assigned male may think that too, but then not give it another thought. Others yet will never think that. But this one might continue to think it, and even demand a new dress.

Children develop in diverse ways. Those who insist on their gender as soon as they can speak are just part of that diversity. They are doing gender, too. It's not like most adult people are aware of their "production" of some gender roles--they are just living life. Children are the same.

Children find out about opportunities to do something they like, that feels correct to them, and they do it. And so, it feels "natural." But there is technically nothing "natural" about gender the same way there is nothing "natural" about race.

I don't think having a biological or innate answer to the gender question is the answer. It does a disservice to trans people who come out in their 40s, 50s, 60s. It also just doesn't make much sense. Our brains aren't Male or Female or even Nonbinary. Yeah, what about nonbinary people? And what about cultures that have more than 2 gender roles? Because those have existed and still exist.

The Bugis people have 5 gender roles, one of which being the bissu. The bissu are community priests, and they are valued for their spiritual knowledge and presence. All 5 gender roles were once considered to exist in harmony and there are rituals for emphasizing this. However, the increased presence of more militant Islamic identity has led to modern-day prejudice.

And the bissu is not a "transgender woman" or a "transgender man." They are none of these.

I wouldn't say that the "doing gender" theory has to be considered a perfect one, but I bring it up because I have problems with our current state of Identity Politics which you mentioned. I don't want PB salivating over this one so what I mean is, the way it has gone has been a disservice to the Left and to how queer people, trans people, people of a variety of ethnicities, disabled people, etc., carry themselves and their movements. Because we have been splintered into exclusive political groups rather than being united as one against the broad group who works against our existence.

And, that actually all started way back when "homosexuality" was first defined as a mental illness by some German asshole in the 1800s (instead of just accusing people of sodomy). Gay stuff (and straight stuff) went from being something you did to something you are. And that extended to trans identity later on.

Instead of us transing gender, we are trans. I think there is a huge difference there politically and socially that impacted how we interact with other affinity groups. How all these groups turned inward.

I'm not sure if that's a good thing. I gotta keep thinking about it.

Some good thoughts there and it is looking at things from a philosophical standpoint ( or whatever part of my brain is pinging away right now ). Yea - maybe I did a disservice to small kids everywhere! Little sods are like sponges

I had someone ask my on my thread years ago, that if I lived in a world where there was no gender bias or policing and that any expression of gender was accepted, would I still transition or have surgery? My answer then as now, is 'but it isn't that world' and I can't project my decision there.

Society impacts who we are in every way and leaves a bruise. Until the bullies get bored of giving us bruises and turn their attention elsewhere, then siding with one political faction or another changes very little. Haters gonna hate.

 

[Escierto]

So much of my sexuality throughout my life has been about wanting a man's love. I'm talking about what most associate with a man seducing a woman (romantic dinners, flowers, jewelry, etc), but rather as a father caring for his son, a big brother, etc. I moved to the country side when I was 48 (now 63), and remember watching how a hen collected her chicks under her wing at night to keep them warm and protected. I thought how I wish more fathers were that way towards their young.

I won't lie and say I would have been 100% str8 had my dad been a jerk (and luckily, I only lived with him for 3.5 years (11 to 14.5 years of age). There were also other emotional things. I had a wonderful grandpa. (My household consisted of my mother, grandmother, and grandpa who died when I was 7.5 years of age.) He was such a wonderful person. Sadly, he struggled with a cancerous brain tumor years before the wonderful medical stuff like MRI's that might have caught it early enough to make a difference. He would kiss his nurses on the cheek -- not because he was a womanizer, but because he had a stroke which made it hard to talk or move his hands. (As a tangent, I find it so silly how some men are so turned off by m2m kissing, some health problems such as stroke make things like a kiss all a man has to offer to thank someone.)

Anyway, grandma thought that young people shouldn't deal with death. I understand her love for me and logic. However, it means I never got to say goodbye of how much I love him. So part of my sexuality is that I want to be around a man I love as much as possible, because he could suddenly die, and I would be alone. I know it sounds pretty pathetic, but inside this senior body is a boy who missed he grandpa.

As I said before I wish I could impregnate a man to create life with someone I love. However sometimes I wiash that life was me. To somehow return to that fantasy male womb where I can be protected from the turmoil out in the real world.

I'm just so fortunate that I have my partner. Though I have ED, I know he loved me despite such problems. I hope to God I never outlive him as I couldn't bear the though of him not coming home from work, not sitting near me, not having his body next to mine at night, etc.

As to gender roles, I suppose I'm a slave to the concept as well as do not understand them at all. I don't wish to be a woman, and I don't wish my partner to be one either. However, I do see gender roles blended. I wish I could empregnate my masculine partner. I wish to watch him raisie children that have eome part of me to bind us. I do wish I didn't have ED so I could be inside him. Yet, I love doing things for him. I like doing his laundry. I like getting him whatever he needs from the grocery store. If you were to interact with us, you would think he couldn't possibly be gay as he is so masculine in appearance and attitude. I'm not effeminate. He simply is so much more of a man. Anyway, I'm just fortunate that I have my little peace of heaven on earth since he puts up with all my flaws. We are simply two men, making the most out of life together.

When you talk about a hen protecting her chicks, it makes me wonder why more men are not like that. For me it’s always been the most natural thing in the world to have my children and grandchildren sitting on my lap with my arms around them. Often I had more than one of them on my lap feeding them or reading to them.

 

[comegently]

I never felt comfortable with what the male gender role was assumed to entail.
Because of when I grew up, I did not have the words for it until much later.
I was forced to do things I disliked, such as playing soccer, and expected to be assertive in dating, where I hit an invisible wall if I tried, or simply looked as though I was putting on an act.
If you fit your assumed gender role you do not notice these things, because they come naturally.
These days, I almost always present in a feminine way and use a feminine name.
I do not see myself as similar in any way to a gay man, but I do find the idea of being in the traditional feminine role in sex titillating.
This is why some people find Trans females like me confusing, but gender is at the heart of this. In terms of perception, a trans female, surgery or not, who has sex with a man, perceives themself as a woman while that's happening.

 

[bobbyinhouston]

I think there was a movie back in late 70's where a man was pregnant and ready to have a child I want to say Robin Williams was in it but I'm probably wrong. When that happens I will change my mind.

 

[stickygirl]

I think there was a movie back in late 70's where a man was pregnant and ready to have a child I want to say Robin Williams was in it but I'm probably wrong. When that happens I will change my mind.

But you're talking about sex, not gender. There's a difference

 

[bobbyinhouston]

Excuse me for being a dumbass but what is the difference?

 

[Escierto]

And another one bites the dust. And another one down…

 

[stickygirl]

Excuse me for being a dumbass but what is the difference?

You're not but if you've never had cause to check the dictionary for it, then the shorthand assumption is they mean the same thing, like talking about a hamburger when we all know it's got beef in it, not pig. Something like that - it's just an accepted expression although it's incorrect.

Sex refers to the biology. Gender refers to the pronouns we use for them. If you call a person who appears to be female, she/her or Miss / Madam, then you make an assumption about them - you haven't checked their chromosomes.

 

[RobLivesInTexas]

My two cents' worth:

Strictly speaking, gender is a phenomonon of language. We see it clearly in Romance languages such as Italian or French. Nouns and pronouns are either masculine or feminine, and verb forms have to agree with the gender of the noun or pronoun. I have more experience with German, which has three genders: masculine, feminine, and neuter. The origin of the gender of some nouns is obvious, but for the life of me, I don't see why, in German, a table is masculine. There may have been, in the murky depths of the language's history, a "sexual" reason for such things. But when the word "magd" (girl), which is feminine, has the diminutive suffix "chen" (little) added to it, it becomes neuter. Go figure.

All this is to say that the very word "gender," which had rigid lines of demarcation in the grammar of languages (I believe there are languages that have more than three genders), had been carried over into discussions of human behavior. I wish we had another word to use besides gender.

Biological sex is, with the rare exceptions of XXY and XYY, binary, with the XX or XY imprinted in every cell of a person's body. Gender, is the sense of a language's structure, is also rigid. That is why we have such confusion when it comes to using a person's preferred pronoun. We are trying to apply something fixed (gender pronouns) to something as fluid as a person's perceptions of themselves and the way they express it in their behavior.

You can see the confusion in that last sentence. In "proper" English usage, I would have used himself instead of themselves, he expresses instead of they express, and his instead of their. In order to express an idea in an acceptable, "non-judgmental" and politically correct way, I've written a poorly constructed sentence and contributed a bit to the murder of the English language.

Many of the problems in "gender" discussions stem from the fact that we are applying something rigid (grammar) to something fluid (being and behavior). I wish we had another word to use besides gender in discussions like this. Maybe we can come up with something. Any suggestions?

 

[Paradox]

This is, without a doubt, the most helpful discussion of gender I have ever found. My thanks go out to all of you. Honestly, I wish I could have you all in my home, beverages of choice in hand, and have that in-person conversation suggested by Cubbyfire. I hope this discussion continues.