Mechanism for removing reported stories.

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

Well, no. Yes, it would be very nice if there were rules that were unformily applied, but, no, this is a private Web site. It's under no obligation to be fair or equal. It can reject whatever it wants, on an individual basis, that it wants to reject.

This Web site isn't subject to any restriction on this point. It just isn't.

Users aren't entitled here on that point.

That is all technically correct. But I see this as a problem when looked at it from a different perspective.

The site might not have any restrictions like that, and the users are not entitled on that point, but this site does live off user's submissions. Look at the level of frustration in the various topics about the rules and their enforcement.

As much as I disagree with lovecraft68 most of the time, I still believe that he's an exemplary writer. One of the very few remaining (active) authors on this site who care about posting actual stories and maybe even make use of a proofreader once in a while. Contrary to the onslaught of people typing their masturbation fantasies on a smartphone and submit the very first draft.

If people like him were to grow too frustrated with the unpredictable ways this site is run and decide to leave, literotica would die off.

 

[lovecraft68]

One final observation. The OP who is questioning why we can't seem to get rid of problematic stories is taking far more heat than the person who wrote this rule breaking material

For those who might not be aware that person boasted about this story in another thread, and even stated "But I'm not going to link it"

Hmm...why wouldn't they link it?

Because they know it breaks the rules, but just had to smirk about it, probably figuring no one would look for it, and someone did.

Now that person is the wrong party here.

.Because the best-meaning worst-thing about this thread is because no one has a legit answer for this is "don't worry about it"

I think they all need to be reminded of that in the next thread where someone questions the precious under age rule. I'll just reply to everyone "Don't worry about it"

I'm sure that will go over well.

 

[KeithD]

That is all technically correct.

Conceding this, there's no relevant "but" to what I posted, because I wasn't weighing in on any other point than noting that including users' views more would be nice.

Also, not incidentally, I was voicing most of the positions covered on this thread before any of you posting to this thread, including lovecraft68, appeared at Literotica for the first time (and I don't see where your acclaim of Lovecraft68's writing ability has to do with anything on this thread--or in comparison to anyone else's writing). In particular, you'll find the concept that the writers here are providing the raw product the Web site is basing its existence on and thus should be given high consideration in my posts as sr71plt before any of the rest of you showed up at Literotica.

 

[TheRedChamber]

The blame lies with Literotica.

Bobby,

Two very simple questions.

1) Does your story include a scene 'in which the “victim” receives no thrill or enjoyment from the acts?'

2) Was this rule in place when you posted the story eight years ago?

 

[TheRedChamber]

One final observation. The OP who is questioning why we can't seem to get rid of problematic stories is taking far more heat than the person who wrote this rule breaking material

Agreed. This thread has been weird.

 

[SimonDoom]

The blame lies truly with Literotica.

The point I was making, and sadly it was your story I used to make it, was that they do not enforce their so called rules fairly. And while SimonDoom would say that they have no obligation to do so, his point was very elequently repudiated by belleCanzuto.

I can't quite let this pass, because it misstates my position.

Anybody who's read my posts in this forum since I started contributing in 2016 knows I have often criticized the opaqueness of this site's content rules, and the apparent inconsistency and capriciousness with which the rules are enforced. I'm a Johnny come lately on that subject. KeithD, under his former name, was talking about it long before that.

If you're going to have rules, then in the best of all worlds you will enforce them fairly and consistently.

My point is that, in the context of this site, it doesn't matter as much as some seem to think it does, and it's not something to get outraged about. There's way too much ink and angst spilled on this subject.

In 90+% of the cases I've seen where somebody claims that their story was unfairly rejected, when the facts come out it's crystal clear why the story was rejected, and the author simply isn't quite clue-ing into what he/she needs to do. The chief remedy for this is, in most cases, for the author to do a little more homework about what's allowed and not allowed, by carefully reviewing the rules and the threads and posts that try to explain them.

I don't have sympathy for people who track down other people's stories and complain that they haven't been rejected. That smacks far too much to me of the hall monitor trying to get his classmates in trouble. I don't like that attitude. It's not something I do, it's not something I want to have any part of, and if some stories happen to slip by the filters I do not care in the slightest. I focus on my own stories, doing the homework, and doing what I can to make sure my stories get accepted. If somebody else "gets away with something" it is of no consequence to me.

Since I've had a story rejected before, I DO have some sympathy for that and I've given recommendations on how to get Laurel to change her mind. I've done that successfully. It can be done.

 

[PastMaster]

NO NO NO. This is the whole point. You're tilting at windmills. The site doesn't have to do anything. It's one person reviewing all the stories every day. Of course there will be weird glitches. Just get over it, don't complain, and don't submit stories that push the limit. It's so simple. it's not worth complaining about. There's no injustice here. This is a private website run by 2 people. Just avoid underage issues. Not at all complicated.

Your position seemed clear enough in your post

And as was said in the previous repudiation of this very comment - how are we supposed to know if our stories push the limit - if we have absolutely no idea where that limit is.

Any my very final comment on this was the issues had nothing to do with underage - it was always about violence.

 

[KeithD]

I don't have sympathy for people who track down other people's stories and complain that they haven't been rejected. That smacks far too much to me of the hall monitor trying to get his classmates in trouble. I don't like that attitude. It's not something I do, it's not something I want to have any part of, and if some stories happen to slip by the filters I do not care in the slightest. I focus on my own stories, doing the homework, and doing what I can to make sure my stories get accepted. If somebody else "gets away with something" it is of no consequence to me.

This thread has two aspects of vigilantism that the arguing sides here displayed, one in form and one in content of the practice. You cover the form here, and I agree with this. This is a broad-ranging Web site, covering a whole lot of kinks, some of them extreme. To be able to have mine included here that the Web site accepts means, to me, that I should tolerate the kinks of others that the Web site tolerates. Nobody's forcing me to read anything here. Beyond that, I think folks should mind their own business and leave it to the Web site to decide what it will accept or not.

What slips through here that can be mooted as outside the stated content rules is, I think, slipping through because not enough scrutiny is being given of submissions, not that it's some sort of Literotica selection conspiracy to purposely let some writers' stuff through and not others. The site is being swamped with submissions. Solving/improving this problem would mean either putting more resources to submissions scrutiny or limiting submissions. The Web site shows no hint of being willing to do the former and the latter will hurt writers and readers alike. Both the power and authority of what will be allowed in the story file belongs to the Web site, not the users, however. That's reality. Adult users should be able to deal with it. Most of us, in fact, do without bleeding our personal hurts all over the board.

In terms of vigilante form, The Web site provides a reporting mechanism. That should be the extent of how far the users should weigh in on questioning whether a specific story should be permitted here. Going beyond this is, I think, junior high school "you should just mind your own business" vigilantism.

In terms of vigilante content, the content of the Literotica file in terms of what anyone else is submitting is also the sole privilege and responsibility of the Web site. Users should just be glad their interests are being served/tolerated to the extent they are and leave others the hell alone to enjoy the content they like as long as the Web site passes them.

This thread not only brings out all aspects of nosy and childish--and beyond entitlement--vigilantism, but it does so in tiresome, whiny, hypocritical, over and over and over again repetition. I'm sure there's a lot here that either turns my stomach or doesn't, I think, stay in acceptable Web site bounds. I think it's natural that it's here--dealing with submissions is overwhelming; "stuff" will get through (personally, I get more upset by what is challenged that turns out to be in bounds). This is an adult site. There are "reporting" buttons, there's the adult response of just backing out of what a reader finds objectionable, and there's an adult response to this Web site of accepting that the Web site, not the users, owns the right to determine what is posted here.

Users should not spend so damn much of their time/effort and of that of the other discussion board users trying to figure out exactly how close to the edge of content rules they will be able to get away with--and complaining about what didn't work for them. The whining and attacking on the specific stories this thread was about just have gone on and on across the board and for far too long. You could go ahead and submit and deal with any rejection later and get more done quicker than coming here and constantly complaining to folks who can't see your specific issue and have no ability to do anything about even if they can. Either submit it or don't. If it's rejected, you can work it to acceptance or submit it somewhere else.

What I won't give the time of day to is a self-appointed vigilante on what can be here. And that crap is what is running rampant on this thread--in multiple dimensions.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

The blame lies truly with Literotica.

The point I was making, and sadly it was your story I used to make it, was that they do not enforce their so called rules fairly. And while SimonDoom would say that they have no obligation to do so, his point was very elequently repudiated by belleCanzuto.

There are many many works in mainstream publication that would not be allowed to be posted on here, many of which are also in public libraries. That mainstream publishers are willling to publish something is not an argument for it to be allowed here. Either they have rules or they don't. If they do - then they should be applied equally and evenly to all.

But what I found to be more telling was how the same people who were condemning my story as a horrific act of violence, where the most violent act that occurred was someone got shot, defended your story. talking about context and length of story and the fact it would be allowed in mainstream publication.

I could probably find a million books in mainstream publication where someone gets shot.

When I first published hitman - it was rejected because the person got shot during the sex act. - OK so i changed it - so that they got shot afterward to separate the act from the death. I'd breached a rule - It didnt make that much difference to the story - so it was no issue to change it.

The reason I mention this is to show that when it was reposted, it was vetted by a person, and did not just 'slip through the net' when it was finally republished to the site.

Still - someone decided, having seen the furore raised in the forums - to report it again and once again it was pulled. They claimed violence, and they even claimed that I had plagiarized the story. There was no proof offered, no source work suggested - just a bald unsubstantiated lie They wanted the story taken down so they LIED to get it done.

When I challenged again - asking for proof of plagiarizm and pointing out that my story didnt break any rules - it was reinstated.

Perhaps that will happen to your story too - if you make your case - they may reinstate it.

I still maintain though that it does indeed breach the noncon rule (the victim must get some pleasure from the act) and the victim does indeed die - from injuries sustained from the rape - that is snuff - no matter how many words there are between cause and effect.

We'll see which of us Laurel agrees with when you make your case.

You can make all the excuses you want, but the fact remains that you attempted to sabotage someone else's work because you felt slighted.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Hmm...why wouldn't they link it?

For the same reason that more intelligent minds interceded: Linking to individual chapters or scenes allows for content to be taken out of context. The scenes are not in stand-alone stories but within chapters of a larger work.

The scenes in question were disturbingly violent, but they did not incite or promote any titillation, gratification, or arousal of a sexual nature so they do not break the rules or violate the guidelines in my eyes, the 30,000+ readers, or more importantly, the site admins.

This is the argument that I have been trying to convey in the various threads about "rules". Context can influence the acceptability of content.

When viewed as part of the complete story, the admins agreed to reinstate the chapters.

 

[PastMaster]

You can make all the excuses you want, but the fact remains that you attempted to sabotage someone else's work because you felt slighted.

Sabotage impllies that I did something to change the story - to make it no fit into the rules of the site - I did nothing of the sort. I reported a story that I felt breached the rules as i understood them.

Having said that, congratulations on getting your chapters reposted

 

[IsobelDoc]

For the same reason that more intelligent minds interceded: Linking to individual chapters or scenes allows for content to be taken out of context. The scenes are not in stand-alone stories but within chapters of a larger work.

The scenes in question were disturbingly violent, but they did not incite or promote any titillation, gratification, or arousal of a sexual nature so they do not break the rules or violate the guidelines in my eyes, the 30,000+ readers, or more importantly, the site admins.

This is the argument that I have been trying to convey in the various threads about "rules". Context can influence the acceptability of content.

When viewed as part of the complete story, the admins agreed to reinstate the chapters.

View attachment 2218913

Really? they reposted that vile tripe ?
That really takes the fucking biscuit - it is clear that the rules here mean absolustely fuck all with the only thing that matter being who you are as to whether your story gets passed or not.

That is a fucking travesty. The OP was right to report i. That kind of shit has NO place on an Erotic story site.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Sabotage impllies that I did something to change the story - to make it no fit into the rules of the site - I did nothing of the sort. I reported a story that I felt breached the rules as i understood them.

Having said that, congratulations on getting your chapters reposted

Thank you, but I respectfully disagree.

Had you reported the whole story, that would have been one thing, because you would have targeted the entire work. By selecting specific chapters of the story to report, you indeed attempted to change the story. It could not have stood with the missing chapters, and even if I did rewrite and resubmit those, the story would have been affected for however long that process took.

 

[PastMaster]

Thank you, but I respectfully disagree.

Had you reported the whole story, that would have been one thing, because you would have targeted the entire work. By selecting specific chapters of the story to report, you indeed attempted to change the story. It could not have stood with the missing chapters, and even if I did rewrite and resubmit those, the story would have been affected for however long that process took.

The other chapters simply didnt breach the rules as i understood them

I couldn't report the 'whole story' since the site allows only for reporting stories as they are written ie a chapter at a time.
I didn't report the other chapters - because there wasnt anything in them that was a breach in the rules.

I did not sabatage your story. I reported it

 

[djrip]

Both of you were reported. Both of you felt your story did not break the rules. Both of your stories were reposted after arguing your case. Seems like there's nothing to complain about here.

 

[Seadog777]

Because they NEVER answer. simple as that. I'm 0 for 4 on contacting Laurel by PM
The only one here that has even responded to me is AH_Mod who has given me what answers they can - but largely the buck stops with Laurel - who doesnt pick up the phone.

I have personally never had a problem reaching Laurel.
She's been incredibly polite and helpful to me.
You have to remember that she's a very busy woman.
She has a family herself and runs this site.
Just keep DMing her, and she'll get to you.

 

[lovecraft68]

I have personally never had a problem reaching Laurel.
She's been incredibly polite and helpful to me.
You have to remember that she's a very busy woman.
She has a family herself and runs this site.
Just keep DMing her, and she'll get to you.

She answers questions that she wants to answer, anything challenging/questioning her is ignored.

 

[Seadog777]

She answers questions that she wants to answer, anything challenging/questioning her is ignored.

I'll have to take your word on that one.
When my first story was rejected, I was a total asshole to her.
She corresponded with me multiple times to help me fix the problem.
She helped me immediately when my story was reported and I needed to change my name.

 

[djrip]

I've only tried once. Wanted to fix a wrong tag. Got no response. Didn't want to keep trying, I already felt pushy for trying once. I've returned to my hole and submitted a story edit to fix it, been waiting a week so far, expecting another 3. Just thought it might have been a simple quick fix, but don't want to annoy her with it more than once.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

While I do complain about quite a few things about Lit, I must say that my communication with Laurel has been very much a positive experience. In the 2-3 times I had a communication with her (account), I was always polite and to the point, and she was also polite and helpful and often very prompt in her reactions.

 

[KeithD]

We get a lot of testimonials about not receiving responses from Laurel and/or Manu--enough to indicate it happens and not to look askance at posters reporting they don't get responses. It's got to be frustrating if you don't get responses. I've gotten responses, usually, but not always, but I've only rarely messaged, using the PM system.

 

[Voboy]

The other chapters simply didnt breach the rules as i understood them

I couldn't report the 'whole story' since the site allows only for reporting stories as they are written ie a chapter at a time.
I didn't report the other chapters - because there wasnt anything in them that was a breach in the rules.

I did not sabatage your story. I reported it

You knew exactly what you were doing, and you didn't do it out of any nobility of your soul. You did it out of pique, because you were butthurt over what you saw as shoddy treatment. You decided misery should love company, so you set out to make someone else's day just as bad as yours was. I think that's an unfortunate thing for you to be known for.

What's done is done, but I for one think a story that's been posted a long time, and which promptly got reposted, is clearly not as big a problem as you think it is. So all you've done is spread ill-will. I'm not sure how that's a desirable outcome for anyone.

 

[TheRedChamber]

So all you've done is spread ill-will.

I disagree. This whole incident has been very informative. We now have very clear confirmation from the site that the lines on noncon are way further back than we thought they were.

Anyone who wishes to write a story involving shoving a broom so far up a woman's sexual organs that she can no longer have children, can rest easy knowing as long as they stick it a few chapters in and make it clear that the perpetrators are 'very, very bad men' then it's going to sail through.

I'm sure this will have a net positive effect on the nature of stories coming into the site.

It also confirms what Lovecraft has been saying for ages (and I foolishly argued against) that the forum cares a lot more about the horror of a seventeen-year old having vanilla consensual sex than they do about a twenty year old being gang raped, tortured and then snuffed out.

 

[Voboy]

I disagree. This whole incident has been very informative. We now have very clear confirmation from the site that the lines on noncon are way further back than we thought they were.

Yeah.

I'm sure that's why he did it: for the improvement of the site.

None of us is responsible for anyone but ourselves. We write our own stories, making our own choices and seeking our own audiences. We are not responsible for what others choose to write... but nor should we seek responsibility for what others choose to read. I can VERY easily choose not to read work that doesn't interest me, but where do I get off making that decision for others?

That is the responsibility @PastMaster took upon himself. He decided he knew better than the site owners what belongs here, and in the process he set himself up as an arbiter for what permissible conduct is. Those are things he must take responsibility for: they are choices he made. He isn't accountable for the story in question, but he decided he'd take responsibility for it anyway.

That's what people do when they report other peoples' work: that's them, claiming they know better than everyone else. I find that attitude odious, to be frank.

JMO. He has congratulated the writer for getting their story reposted, but he hasn't yet apologized for such a demonstrably poor lapse in judgement: the story in question has been approved now not once, but twice. Simply put, whether he likes it or not, he was wrong in his determination that that story didn't belong here. Acknowledging that would be a classy thing to do, I would think.

 

[djrip]

To be fair I haven't seen anyone apologize, or call upon others to apologize, to pastmaster for reporting his story. Personally I don't think any apologies are needed; if you think a story breaks the rules and want to report it, fine, go ahead. The site will make the final decision. And both of them got their stories reposted, and are apparently now buying each other's books. So it's all good.
Red, I care about underage and violent content equally: not at all. I read what I like and I don't read what I don't like; I think that policy would work for everyone!