Women: how can men talk about their fantasies with their gf / wife?

[Nowackosplease2]

I’ve been spending time reading threads / talking to people about their fantasies lately. An overarching concern is the ability to talk to their partner about fantasies without causing WW3 / a divorce.

What kind of suggestions / examples can you give to help with mischief and shenanigans?

 

[KatieDoes]

Honestly.
With the focus placed on being open and vulnerable and trusting your partner enough to be open and honest. Without expectation that your partner will share or agree to try your fantasies. With patience to give your partner time to process and consider what you said before replying or deciding if they might be into it.
When you’ve made a solid effort to make sure that your partners emotional needs are being met. When you know that she feels safe and valued and heard by you. When your reason for sharing is to enrich an already strong emotional connection and become closer, not to get her to do something for you.

 

[Rob_Royale]

Try to start with theirs. If they won't talk about their own, well ......

 

[Nowackosplease2]

Honestly.
With the focus placed on being open and vulnerable and trusting your partner enough to be open and honest. Without expectation that your partner will share or agree to try your fantasies. With patience to give your partner time to process and consider what you said before replying or deciding if they might be into it.
When you’ve made a solid effort to make sure that your partners emotional needs are being met. When you know that she feels safe and valued and heard by you. When your reason for sharing is to enrich an already strong emotional connection and become closer, not to get her to do something for you.

Thank you for that well thought out reply. There is a lot of good information there.

 

[Diosax]

Honestly.
With the focus placed on being open and vulnerable and trusting your partner enough to be open and honest. Without expectation that your partner will share or agree to try your fantasies. With patience to give your partner time to process and consider what you said before replying or deciding if they might be into it.
When you’ve made a solid effort to make sure that your partners emotional needs are being met. When you know that she feels safe and valued and heard by you. When your reason for sharing is to enrich an already strong emotional connection and become closer, not to get her to do something for you.

This

Also first ensuring that there is healthy communication outside of these conversations. And also setting a good time to share with them. Don't just bring it up out of blue esp if other areas of the relationship aren't nurtured

 

[Nowackosplease2]

Best it there is a hint of attraction to another that you would be okay with. If you saw the way your gf was with another girl you might explore if she was attracted sexually and move the discussion that way.
Better than "hey bud, lets have a 3sum okay??"

That is some high quality advice right there.

 

[policywank]

Honestly.
With the focus placed on being open and vulnerable and trusting your partner enough to be open and honest. Without expectation that your partner will share or agree to try your fantasies. With patience to give your partner time to process and consider what you said before replying or deciding if they might be into it.
When you’ve made a solid effort to make sure that your partners emotional needs are being met. When you know that she feels safe and valued and heard by you. When your reason for sharing is to enrich an already strong emotional connection and become closer, not to get her to do something for you.

Try to start with theirs. If they won't talk about their own, well ......

I guess it partly depends upon the person but I gotta go with Katie on this one. I think it is difficult to ask someone else to open up if you aren't willing to take that initiative yourself. Or at least doing so creates more of a safe space for them.

Opening up about one's personal fantasies is inherently risky. No matter how much a person assures us that they won't judge us, we know that how they feel about what we tell them isn't entirely voluntary so it could still go poorly. By opening up first we do something more powerful than make promises we may or may not be able to keep. We make ourselves vulnerable, demonstrate our commitment to being open and lead by example.

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

I guess it partly depends upon the person but I gotta go with Katie on this one. I think it is difficult to ask someone else to open up if you aren't willing to take that initiative yourself. Or at least doing so creates more of a safe space for them.

Opening up about one's personal fantasies is inherently risky. No matter how much a person assures us that they won't judge us, we know that how they feel about what we tell them isn't entirely voluntary so it could still go poorly. By opening up first we do something more powerful than make promises we may or may not be able to keep. We make ourselves vulnerable, demonstrate our commitment to being open and lead by example.

That can be very frightening to do.
One of the results of being in a long-time relationship is to become very sensitive to the other party's reactions.
So, even she tries to hide it, I know when my wife is disgusted by something that I might hint at or suggest.

 

[policywank]

That can be very frightening to do.
One of the results of being in a long-time relationship is to become very sensitive to the other party's reactions.
So, even she tries to hide it, I know when my wife is disgusted by something that I might hint at or suggest.

Indeed it can be very frightening. But that runs both ways. If one partner wants to take the initiative, it doesn't make much sense to insist that their partner be the one to risk the frightening part first.

Imagine if you talked your wife into going sky diving. It scares both of you equally, but it was your idea and you were the one who pushed for it. You can't very well get up there and so you go first honey. Well, you can but that isn't going to go over very well is it?

Perhaps if there is a compelling reason to believe that she is substantially less frightened than you are or has less to fear you might take a different approach. But that is a challenging premise. Most of us have more confidence in our own ability to be non-judgmental than our partner's but they probably feel the same way. So there you are at the exit from the plane. It was your idea....so who goes first?

 

[Darcy1961]

I’ve been spending time reading threads / talking to people about their fantasies lately. An overarching concern is the ability to talk to their partner about fantasies without causing WW3 / a divorce.

What kind of suggestions / examples can you give to help with mischief and shenanigans?

We started by talking about our fantasy's in bed after we had made love and it always led to another sexy session it turned us both on so much . In a short time we agreed to share every fantasy , tell each other everything , no secrets at all plus a pledge of no jealousy and no judgement . It works great and has led to us trying some fanatsy's for real

 

[UtilityCurve]

I was shocked that my wife was 100% okay with my fantasies (even shared some). She explained that she figured "boys were like that" and they didn't stop when they said "I do."

She's gone now (ten years), but every wife I've spoken to since has said the same thing: Boys are just horny and rings don't stop it.

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

Indeed it can be very frightening. But that runs both ways. If one partner wants to take the initiative, it doesn't make much sense to insist that their partner be the one to risk the frightening part first.

Imagine if you talked your wife into going sky diving. It scares both of you equally, but it was your idea and you were the one who pushed for it. You can't very well get up there and so you go first honey. Well, you can but that isn't going to go over very well is it?

Perhaps if there is a compelling reason to believe that she is substantially less frightened than you are or has less to fear you might take a different approach. But that is a challenging premise. Most of us have more confidence in our own ability to be non-judgmental than our partner's but they probably feel the same way. So there you are at the exit from the plane. It was your idea....so who goes first?

I agree 100%. If you want to open up communications, you have to take the risk first of sharing information that you fear my provoke a negative reaction. But then, what happens when you get that negative reaction? Not a full out rejection, not a reaction that endangers the relationship of itself, but a more subtle expression that conveys disgust?

 

[policywank]

I agree 100%. If you want to open up communications, you have to take the risk first of sharing information that you fear my provoke a negative reaction. But then, what happens when you get that negative reaction? Not a full out rejection, not a reaction that endangers the relationship of itself, but a more subtle expression that conveys disgust?

I think that or some version of it is the big challenge for many couples. Do you risk a negative reaction in search of greater communication? How likely is that outcome and how negative is the reaction likely to be? I don't think there is a clear answer as it is so situation specific.

However, I think that there are a few things that you can do to lay the ground work.

You can have a broad discussion about the important of having an open mind and not letting outside influences affect how you feel about things. It helps if you have a few innocuous examples. I think you and I talked about how attitudes have change around the legalization of marijuana on another thread. I know that seems pretty detached from this, but for me it has been one of those topics that helps illustrate how things about which we were so certain a short while ago were in fact way off base. Likewise acceptance of homosexuality, transgender people and sexual fluidity in general is light years beyond where it was 20 or 30 years ago. That is not to say that today's attitudes are all correct, but that these things do change and the things that we once regarded as immutable truths were nothing of the sort.

You can talk about some of our basic assumptions around central topics like monogamy. Personally I find that this is one that holds intellectual interest. Until recently the prevailing thought was that women crave monogamy because we want someone to provide for us and protect us. But the main reason we needed someone to provide for us was because male dominated society had shut us out of the workforce and push unwed women to the fringes of society where we were in danger from predatory men. In my view men created these conditions to compel us towards monogamy because that is what gives most guys a shot at getting a woman. In many ways the historical characterization of men and women is backwards. If you can find a way to raise it that can be a primarily intellectual discussion that exercises or even tests your partner's willingness to question conventional wisdom.

And of course you can take these conversation in small increments so that if there is a negative reaction it is nominal and not of great consequence. It sucks if you hit that barrier, but at least you can back away from it if you must. And sometimes nudging up against those limits will be what expands the discussion even if it takes some time.

Finally, I think that there is a lot of power in insisting on having your feelings respected. A lot of times when we approach sensitive topics it is one person's opinion versus the other's. That creates a scenario where as equal partners you may not only disagree but also seek to invalidate the other person's point of view at the same time. But if you change it to a simple matter of wanting to be able to communicate your perspective without expecting to change their mind it changes everything. You are then in a position to state that your opinion and feelings are intrinsically valid and it is inappropriate of a loving partner to try to invalidate them. She doesn't have to agree. But to tell you that your own feelings and desires are invalid or wrong is quite reprehensible. A loving partner will recognize that. It is still their prerogative to not indulge your preferences, but they must recognize that is what they are doing.

As an example, suppose you want to try anal sex. If you try to convince your wife it is your will against hers and both are equally valid. But if you take the approach I have described you can state clearly that you think it is a normal and healthy desire. You can state that it doesn't matter if her friends and the pope think otherwise, you feel what you feel and you want what you want and she is in the wrong for trying to invalidate your desires. Her feelings are valid too, so she doesn't have to engage in anal sex. But she does need to accept that your desire is real and valid and therefore she is choosing to ignore it. Ignoring a valid desire is very different and more difficult than ignoring a desire you deem invalid.

 

[MrMikelobe1952]

I think that or some version of it is the big challenge for many couples. Do you risk a negative reaction in search of greater communication? How likely is that outcome and how negative is the reaction likely to be? I don't think there is a clear answer as it is so situation specific.

However, I think that there are a few things that you can do to lay the ground work.

You can have a broad discussion about the important of having an open mind and not letting outside influences affect how you feel about things. It helps if you have a few innocuous examples. I think you and I talked about how attitudes have change around the legalization of marijuana on another thread. I know that seems pretty detached from this, but for me it has been one of those topics that helps illustrate how things about which we were so certain a short while ago were in fact way off base. Likewise acceptance of homosexuality, transgender people and sexual fluidity in general is light years beyond where it was 20 or 30 years ago. That is not to say that today's attitudes are all correct, but that these things do change and the things that we once regarded as immutable truths were nothing of the sort.

You can talk about some of our basic assumptions around central topics like monogamy. Personally I find that this is one that holds intellectual interest. Until recently the prevailing thought was that women crave monogamy because we want someone to provide for us and protect us. But the main reason we needed someone to provide for us was because male dominated society had shut us out of the workforce and push unwed women to the fringes of society where we were in danger from predatory men. In my view men created these conditions to compel us towards monogamy because that is what gives most guys a shot at getting a woman. In many ways the historical characterization of men and women is backwards. If you can find a way to raise it that can be a primarily intellectual discussion that exercises or even tests your partner's willingness to question intentional wisdom.

And of course you can take these conversation in small increments so that if there is a negative reaction it is nominal and not of great consequence. It sucks if you hit that barrier, but at least you can back away from it if you must. And sometimes nudging up against those limits will be what expansion the discussion even if it takes some time.

Finally, I think that there is a lot of power in insisting on having your feelings respected. A lot of times when we approach sensitive topics it is one person's opinion versus the other's. That creates a scenario where as equal partners you may not only disagree but also seek to invalidate the other person's point of view at the same time. But if you change it to a simple matter of wanting to be able to communicate your perspective without expecting to change their mind it changes everything. You are then in a position to state that your opinion and feelings are intrinsically valid and it is inappropriate of a loving partner to try to invalidate them. She doesn't have to agree. But to tell you that your own feelings and desires are invalid or wrong is quite reprehensible. A loving partner will recognize that. It is still their prerogative to not indulge your preferences, but they must recognize that is what they are doing.

As an example, suppose you want to try anal sex. If you try to convince your wife it is your will against hers and both are equally valid. But if you take the approach I have described you can state clearly that you think it is a normal and healthy desire. You can state that it doesn't matter if her friends and the pope think otherwise, you feel what you feel and you want what you want and she is in the wrong for trying to invalidate your desires. Her feelings are valid too, so she doesn't have to engage in anal sex. But she does need to accept that your desire is real and valid and therefore she is choosing to ignore it. Ignoring a vlid desire is very different and more difficult than ignoring a desire you deem invalid.

I don't think she feels that my desires are invalid. She just reacts with a lot of discomfort and disgust. She tries to hide it, but I know her too well. It is very obvious to me. I feel that pursuing it makes her feel guilty for not being open to what I want.

 

[policywank]

I don't think she feels that my desires are invalid. She just reacts with a lot of discomfort and disgust. She tries to hide it, but I know her too well. It is very obvious to me. I feel that pursuing it makes her feel guilty for not being open to what I want.

I understand. It may be that she simply is not able to open her mind to those things and that won't change. Presumably you don't want her to feel guilty but my own preference in relationships is to be honest about those things. Effectively saying "Listen I know you don't share these desires. I don't expect you to indulge them or even hear about them. But they are real and I don't think that there is anything wrong with that. I shouldn't have to deny this aspect of myself or pretend it doesn't exist so that you don't feel guilty."

I guess that we all feel differently about these things. There is a difference between being honest and just saying every thought that comes in to your head - the desire to be honest is no excuse for insensitivity. There are times that sharing something that may make a loved one feel badly has no purpose. But there are also times that denying something or feeling unable to share it just because a loved one might end up feeling bad is not a fair burden to carry and is damaging to a relationship.

 

[lc69hunter]

My first wife had no interest in, and didn't want to hear anything, or talk about anything, sexual. There were other issues that caused the divorce, but that played a part. My second wife, on the other hand, was open to both hearing, and sharing fantasies, many of which we were able to bring to life. That woman was my soul mate and the love of my life.