What do male writers think about females writing from a male perspective?

[AWhoopsieDaisy]

I know this is purely anecdotal but I'm a lesbian who writes stories about gay men and I've actually been surprised to get such a positive response from actual gay men.

View attachment 2184831
Warm fuzzies all around

 

[jehoram]

Maybe "discussion" was stretching it a little, but: https://forum.literotica.com/threads/am-i-a-dick.1576352/#post-95912752

Oh, I saw that thread. It was an interesting read.

 

[My I]

For me it's little things. Things that women say that men don't. Can't think of any specifics in stories off hand but I do remember, years ago, there was an author here who made it a point to not reveal their gender and it had most here baffled and guessing. Then one day they made the tiniest of slips. In a post they mentioned going "shopping". Men don't say "I'm going shopping". They'll say, "I'm gonna run to Lowes and get some screws." or I need to run out and get a few things." "I need to get some groceries." etc. But never "Shopping"
I didn't let her cat out of the bag, but sent her PM and she confessed.

In my own stories from the female first person, I try to find ways of injecting little things she notices, like what brand of soap is in the bathroom, or how a different bra feels so much better than what she normally wears. I think it breathes more of a female life into the character and makes her more real.

 

[jehoram]

I didn't let her cat out of the bag, but sent her PM and she confessed.

Which brings up the issue of why women don't want to be identified as such on Lit. I guess it's because they don't want their message boxes filled up by guys wanting to hit on them. I asked Athalia about that once, and she told me that it hasn't been an issue with her, because she lets people know in her profile that she's in her sixties, and that probably turns a lot of guys off. But she says she still gets a few.

In my own stories from the female first person, I try to find ways of injecting little things she notices, like what brand of soap is in the bathroom, or how a different bra feels so much better than what she normally wears. I think it breathes more of a female life into the character and makes her more real.

I do that, too. The bra not only fits better, but it makes her look better, at least in her eyes. And it might make her feel a little sexier. Stuff like that doesn't affect men as much. And if you see references to the technique of putting on make-up, well, that's not something most men are experienced with. So that's another tell, or at least a male writer doing a good job of imitating a female writer.

 

[AWhoopsieDaisy]

For me it's little things. Things that women say that men don't. Can't think of any specifics in stories off hand but I do remember, years ago, there was an author here who made it a point to not reveal their gender and it had most here baffled and guessing. Then one day they made the tiniest of slips. In a post they mentioned going "shopping". Men don't say "I'm going shopping". They'll say, "I'm gonna run to Lowes and get some screws." or I need to run out and get a few things." "I need to get some groceries." etc. But never "Shopping"
I didn't let her cat out of the bag, but sent her PM and she confessed.

In my own stories from the female first person, I try to find ways of injecting little things she notices, like what brand of soap is in the bathroom, or how a different bra feels so much better than what she normally wears. I think it breathes more of a female life into the character and makes her more real.

As a younger person I'm not entirely sure that's a gendered thing. At least not anymore. My grandmother used the word shopping but my mother and I don't unless it's a trip to something like a shoe or department store.

I remember sometime around 2008-2010 there were a lot of financial tips about going to the store with a list to cut down on impulse purchases. It's with this shift that shopping both as a word and a leisure activity died.

In a funny turn of events the only person that uses the word shopping in my family anymore is my dad. He doesn't describe his own store runs as shopping, but if I ask him where mom is and she's out for groceries he'll say "she's out shopping" every time. I find this pretty ironic because in my family he's technically the only one with a shopping hobby as he scrolls through Amazon listings for fun.

Excuse the tangent. I just find these little linguistic quirks interesting.

 

[stickygirl]

Can't say I'd gender the word shopping, except that maybe I'd associate it with browsing rather than a shopping trip, which is focused. I can't think that I'd ever mention bra-fits in my stories, apart from maybe taking it off at the end of a day. My bf is particular about his u-pants and Sloggi apparently do the job for him. They're just clothes but I guess some people find the words erotic in a story *shrugs*

 

[TarnishedPenny]

WRT brassieres, I did a bespoke story (Film Noir) for a woman who specifically wanted a first-time tale about a young woman with a very large bosom and the issues that caused her. Her bra played a large part - fit, comfort, effect on her bf, etc. I thought it worked out.

 

[stickygirl]

WRT brassieres, I did a bespoke story (Film Noir) for a woman who specifically wanted a first-time tale about a young woman with a very large bosom and the issues that caused her. Her bra played a large part - fit, comfort, effect on her bf, etc. I thought it worked out.

I totally accept there are comfort issues. I guess we bring our own experience to stories

 

[My I]

Which brings up the issue of why women don't want to be identified as such on Lit. I guess it's because they don't want their message boxes filled up by guys wanting to hit on them. I asked Athalia about that once, and she told me that it hasn't been an issue with her, because she lets people know in her profile that she's in her sixties, and that probably turns a lot of guys off. But she says she still gets a few.

My alt, Elloelle, still gets messages from guys. I feel bad when I have to tell them I'm a 60 yr old man.

 

[jehoram]

I don't think of "shopping" as gender-based in some contexts. Back in the day when the department stores of big cities had display windows showing their wares, both sexes would go "window-shopping" as they strolled down the sidewalks in front.

But I think that men tend to go shopping for specific things, and then go home once they've made their purchases. Women go shopping for the sport of it, just to see what's available. It's the old stereotype of man as the hunter and woman as the gatherer. And yes, it's a stereotype, with plenty of exceptions IRL, but there's a germ of truth in it.

 

[stickygirl]

As a child I remember 'going shopping' with Mum was a drudgery of people's legs and counters I couldn't see and being told "Wait a minute" but after 60 seconds we were still there. I must have been a joy to take 'shopping'!

The best 'going shopping' was when a friend was visiting the UK and needed to restock her wardrobe for business. I watched her spend £2500 - that was huge fun!

 

[Lovecraft_Lore]

I think a lot of women then are not good at writing these kinds of scenes where a man is trying to work out how and when to make a move. In an erotic story, often he's going at ask and she's going to say yes, but if there's not more of an element of nervous strategy, the main character goes straight back in the 'attracitve confident man' box - which again is what women like, but make us (inferior) men hate him at least a little.

It is fun to see what they got wrong, especially when it comes to mind reading into woman's motives. I think most guys on a first date are more worried about fucking things up. Men written by women have Sherlock Holmes level observation skills and the ability to read deeply into her mind: "I could see she was wearing Tiffany's blue box earrings, which matched her leggings perfectly. They must have been purchased years before by her father for her sweet sixteen birthday. She would never wear such a prized object on a first date unless she felt the same chemistry I did. I caught a glimpse down her top, her bra and underwear matched. Clearly, she had decided I would be seeing her clad in nothing else later in the date and she had wanted to look her very best."

 

[Athalia]

I want to thank everybody who participated in this thread. I learned a lot, and was gratified to see that people were for the most part respectful of other people's opinions.

I think I learned a little bit about writing male characters from it. But I still get nervous about whether I'm portraying men as they are, rather than as I would want them to be. That erotica is mainly fantasy dictates a lot of that portrayal.

I've commented elsewhere that whereas men have been studying women ever since they hit puberty, women have been studying men for longer, because society imposes so many restrictions on what women should wear and what they could accept from men. We live in a world where, when we grow breasts, we suddenly are confronted with issues of identity and conformity and expectations that boys aren't confronted with. We are still fighting for the right to control our own bodies, for Christ's sake. We still don't earn what men earn in the same position. Fewer of us are elected to public office. So we don't live in the same world, and therefore girls become more acutely aware of it at an earlier age than men do, IMHO.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

If none of the women in the story ever carry purses, almost certainly a guy wrote it. If the girl leaves the club straight from the dancefloor with the guy and doesn't go back for her purse or doesn't stop at the coat check to get her coat ... It doesn't matter how drunk or horny she is, the girl will never leave without her purse.

I've been in chat rooms where some girl is chatting away and when the topic gets to clothes I'll just quickly mention "I'm an 8". If the doesn't understand that you mean a size 8 dress, she's either European (different sizes) a guy or a total lifelong tomboy. Figured a few out that way but never outed any.

 

[AWhoopsieDaisy]

If none of the women in the story ever carry purses, almost certainly a guy wrote it. If the girl leaves the club straight from the dancefloor with the guy and doesn't go back for her purse or doesn't stop at the coat check to get her coat ... It doesn't matter how drunk or horny she is, the girl will never leave without her purse.

I've been in chat rooms where some girl is chatting away and when the topic gets to clothes I'll just quickly mention "I'm an 8". If the doesn't understand that you mean a size 8 dress, she's either European (different sizes) a guy or a total lifelong tomboy. Figured a few out that way but never outed any.

Meanwhile my Dyke ass keeps, wallet, keys, phone in my coat pocket. Legitimately I rarely see college age women with purses. Every store sizes clothes differently so it's gotta be "I'm an 8 at xyz"

 

[TheRedChamber]

If none of the women in the story ever carry purses, almost certainly a guy wrote it. If the girl leaves the club straight from the dancefloor with the guy and doesn't go back for her purse or doesn't stop at the coat check to get her coat ... It doesn't matter how drunk or horny she is, the girl will never leave without her purse.

Sorry, I'm confused, are you not dancing around your handbags? My grandmother always used to say that was the sensible way to do it.

I've been in chat rooms where some girl is chatting away and when the topic gets to clothes I'll just quickly mention "I'm an 8". If the doesn't understand that you mean a size 8 dress, she's either European (different sizes) a guy or a total lifelong tomboy. Figured a few out that way but never outed any.

I'm not sure how even a guy pretending to be a girl would miss this (although I'll take your word for it). Guys don't shop much, but occassionally we still need to buy shoes and such like.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I'm not sure how even a guy pretending to be a girl would miss this (although I'll take your word for it). Guys don't shop much, but occassionally we still need to buy shoes and such like.

Clothes are different than shoes. For clothes, guys buy small medium and large etc. Even pants have a waist measurement. Dress sizes are totally different. Guys don't even know their own suit size unless their job demands suits and ties. All girls except the hardest tomboys know their dress size.

Meanwhile my Dyke ass keeps, wallet, keys, phone in my coat pocket. Legitimately I rarely see college age women with purses.

Sure, not all women carry purses. I've written more than a few who don't myself, but when NONE of the women in the scene ever care about a purse it's a red flag. Come on, how many times have you read two hot girls in a pizza parlor in nothing but skimpy bikinis are eating pizza when a hot guy walks in and they start flirting. They're eating pizza, so obviously they've ordered and paid for it yet neither of them even has a pocket for a phone, let alone a purse or wallet. That's a guy fantasy. Nothing wrong with that, but that's a guy writing.

it's gotta be "I'm an 8 at xyz"

Sure, but if you say "I'm an 8," and the other girl says "huh?" then that's a tell. That's all that I'm saying.

I also had to laugh one time when I read "I have little breasts, just 32D." Someone doesn't know their (I mean his) cup sizes. Now if you want to argue that not all women know their dress size, like I said, of course there are some tomboys out there who always wear tee and jeans sure, but you can't argue that a girl doesn't know her own bra size. I mean really.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I love it when female writers write a male character. I can always tell the gender of the writer, because for me, there are some obvious tells, but still, it gives great insight into how women see us and our way of thinking, or so to say, what makes us tick. It doesn't even need to be erotica, as even in ordinary prose it is not hard to tell the gender, as long as the story/novel is long enough and contains character insight and development. Obviously, if a talented writer wanted to mimic the other gender's tells then it is much harder to say, but in a long enough story even that can come out eventually.

 

[jehoram]

I've commented elsewhere that whereas men have been studying women ever since they hit puberty, women have been studying men for longer, because society imposes so many restrictions on what women should wear and what they could accept from men. We live in a world where, when we grow breasts, we suddenly are confronted with issues of identity and conformity and expectations that boys aren't confronted with. We are still fighting for the right to control our own bodies, for Christ's sake. We still don't earn what men earn in the same position. Fewer of us are elected to public office. So we don't live in the same world, and therefore girls become more acutely aware of it at an earlier age than men do, IMHO.

At first I thought you were being a bit too extreme in your opinion, but then I realized that with an election coming up in the US that may decide whether women have a right to abortions, a lot of my lady friends seem to be edgier than usual. I'm edgy about that. I'm edgier, too, because there also seems to be an assault on the validity of elections themselves, with public servants saying that they have a right to overturn any election where they don't agree with the outcomes. Strange times.

I get your point about how when girls mature, they're in a different ballgame than they were in before. What was my transition like? A lower voice, and the need to shave our faces every few days. (No guys shaved their armpits in those days.) Pubic hair. Boners when I didn't want them. The need to jack off under the covers every night. All but the first one were hidden from the public, so there was no overt transition from boyhood to manhood. That's maybe one thing that makes a male character more believable and relatable.

 

[jehoram]

Clothes are different than shoes. For clothes, guys buy small medium and large etc. Even pants have a waist measurement. Dress sizes are totally different. Guys don't even know their own suit size unless their job demands suits and ties. All girls except the hardest tomboys know their dress size.

My wife tells me that dress sizes are about as informative as weather predictions. One dressmaker's size six is another dressmaker's size five, because the customer would rather think of herself as a size five than as a size six. Wife would much rather buy clothes the way men do, using actual measurements for height, bust, waist, hips, inseam, and so on. She says that there were actually a few web sites that were trying to sell clothes that way, but there wasn't enough business to sustain them.

To make a male character more believable, have him be oblivious to that fact.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I know my rough clothes size but not whether any given item with that number will fit or not. I have been in upmarket clothes stores where a size 12 (US 8) is too big and a size 20 too small, not to mention mass-market brands where they cut so much fabric at once that two pairs of trousers of the exact same style and size are actually about 3 sizes apart...

The problem (apart from cheapskate manufacturers) is curves and wanting a close fit. If you have two women with say 30inch waist and 40inch hips, but one of them has those circles 6 inches above the other and the second woman has them over a foot apart, the first one's trousers ain't going to fit the second. And the second's will probably fall off the first. Add breasts and chest and shoulder dimensions and it's amazing any dress ever fits.

There's a lot to be said for stretchy material and gathered or wrap clothing. I recall a boss who always wore snazzy saris saying it wasn't so much pride in her Indian heritage, as the fact that a sari will always fit...

 

[stickygirl]

I buy my jeans online and never been disappointed. Always the same size Different for knickers though - they're fickle and the manufacturers clearly shop around because the fabrics change - and the frickin elastic.

ETA Actually I've just admitted to be boring haven't I?

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Leave it to women to derail every discussion into shopping chat...

 

[pink_silk_glove]

My wife tells me that dress sizes are about as informative as weather predictions.

Dress sizes can vary quite a bit by manufacturer yes. Cheaper brands tend to put a smaller number on it to convince women to buy it thinking that they are actually thinner.

But the point is *again* if during a conversation about clothes I say "I'm an 8" and the other girl says "huh?" that's a tell. She should almost certainly know that I mean a dress size. If she doesn't, that's a tell.

 

[Seadog777]

I'm trying to finish a story from a female's prospective, and I'm having some trouble with that.

My sisters just laugh when I try to ask them for help.