The suspension of disbelief paradox in erotic fiction

[Bramblethorn]

What "doesn't bear thinking about!" is possibly brave - but decidedly self-appointed - forum Gestapo parading around, apparently, as avuncular proponents of censorship. If being reminded of facts results in some feeling that they are a "peg" or two lower than anticipated, too bad. A little humility - not humiliation - can be good for the soul, even for the Gestapo among us.

Weird how the ones who think their own criticisms of others are socially valuable free speech are the first ones to scream "censorship" when the others criticise them.

Anyway, you're tedious and I'm going to put you on ignore now (which also isn't censorship) but I'll leave you with this thought: just because your hand's not on your dick doesn't mean you're not a wanker.

 

[EarlyMorningLight]

Anyway, you're tedious and I'm going to put you on ignore now (which also isn't censorship) but I'll leave you with this thought: just because your hand's not on your dick doesn't mean you're not a wanker.

This line is as hot as anything in any of your stories, and I mean that as a compliment.

 

[SimonDoom]

Despite some of the noise, it's an interesting thread, but I wish EarlyMorningLight would change on thing: the word "paradox" to "challenge." I don't see anything paradoxical about suspension of disbelief in erotic stories, any more than in any other type of story. But it's a constant challenge if you like, as I do, stories that test the boundaries of erotic things most people would be likely to do.

 

[Smuttyandfun]

One of my 3 part stories, Severely Testing Her Limits, about woman working as a human test dummy for a sex toy company was obviously meant to be funny, and not taken too seriously. Most readers got the fact that it wasn't a serious story, and was meant as a lark, but one remarked, 'Not believable.' Which I thought was hilarious and so did a few of my readers. One reader thought that comment was as funny as the story. I think most people reading on this site know they're reading fiction, even if some of it's pretty far fetched. But there are the odd few who actually think what we're writing should be more down to earth, and even fact based. Imagine how dull that would be, if we held ourselves in check and weren't able to let our imaginations run wild.

 

[Winter_Fare]

Despite some of the noise, it's an interesting thread, but I wish EarlyMorningLight would change on thing: the word "paradox" to "challenge."

You can't edit post titles.

 

[MelissaBaby]

One of my 3 part stories, Severely Testing Her Limits, about woman working as a human test dummy for a sex toy company was obviously meant to be funny, and not taken too seriously. Most readers got the fact that it wasn't a serious story, and was meant as a lark, but one remarked, 'Not believable.' Which I thought was hilarious and so did a few of my readers. One reader thought that comment was as funny as the story. I think most people reading on this site know they're reading fiction, even if some of it's pretty far fetched. But there are the odd few who actually think what we're writing should be more down to earth, and even fact based. Imagine how dull that would be, if we held ourselves in check and weren't able to let our imaginations run wild.

Respectfully, this is exactly what I was talking about.

I strife to keep my writing down to earth. I try to present plausible fiction with realistic characters.

I don't think my work is dull. It does not seem like the people who read it think so, either.

 

[EarlyMorningLight]

I definitely think there’s room for over the top, completely implausible scenarios if the reader is in on the joke. But it takes a deft hand as a writer to get that right balance between tongue in cheek and still sexy.

 

[Smuttyandfun]

Respectfully, this is exactly what I was talking about.

I strife to keep my writing down to earth. I try to present plausible fiction with realistic characters.

I don't think my work is dull. It does not seem like the people who read it think so, either.

I didn't mean to imply that down to earth stories are dull. I just meant that a reader that has no sense of humor and insists that we write everything as gospel can really put a stranglehold on what we write.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I didn't mean to imply that down to earth stories are dull. I just meant that a reader that has no sense of humor and insists that we write everything as gospel can really put a stranglehold on what we write.

Thank you for the clarification. I enjoy some of the more fanciful stories, it's just not what I write.

 

[Maxiine]

Fun story - when I was in Japan I bought a lovely thick art book of the complete works of Hokusai for my mother. I flipped thought it briefly in the shop, but somehow missed the huge tenticle porn section...

My mother knew my pre-teen son loved things with wheels, like motorcycles, so she bought him a vhs tape (I'm old)...

"Sturgis Motorcycle Rally"

He loved it...

 

[Maxiine]

One way that I avoid writing myself into a corner is the story within a story.

Something I do a lot in fan fiction.

You like 'House of Cards' and understand why Season Six took and abrupt turn because of events in real life. So the story is about the studio executives, scriptwriters, and the actors in the real world while shooting an alternate reality Season Six that replaces the one that was broadcast...

XYZ Productions took over the production company and recast Frank Underwood with a new actor and Claire eventually appoints him to be Chief Justice of the Supreme Court after twists and turns argued and fought over by the writers and actors as the studio executives pander to advertisers and focus groups.

All the really "naughty" stuff being between characters that I invented and interjected into the confused and consternated real word cast.

 

[SimonDoom]

I definitely think there’s room for over the top, completely implausible scenarios if the reader is in on the joke. But it takes a deft hand as a writer to get that right balance between tongue in cheek and still sexy.

Totally agree. My story Teddy Bear is about as ridiculous and implausible as it gets for erotica. But it has done very well. It's in the top 10 highest-rated toy and masturbation stories of all time here.

One of the things I did in that story, to suspend disbelief, was to try to stick to my "one bit of magic" rule. The Teddy Bear itself is absurd, but most of the other things about the main female character, her home, her friend, her dubious boyfriend, and her job are more normal and plausible, and I think the normal elements ground the story.

 

[000zing]

Weird how the ones who think their own criticisms of others are socially valuable free speech are the first ones to scream "censorship" when the others criticise them.

Anyway, you're tedious and I'm going to put you on ignore now (which also isn't censorship) but I'll leave you with this thought: just because your hand's not on your dick doesn't mean you're not a wanker.

And I'll leave you with this one to ease your jittery mind with its wondering how folk will react to your last-wordism attempt: yes, we've all noticed how the self-appointed forum police aren't beyond the occasional bit of name calling. One of the surest signals of a failed argument.

 

[36b7]

This is a great example. The teacher has a million reasons to avoid fucking the student. How do you make her decision to give in believable enough to keep her character real, and not just a flimsy fantasy projection? So many of the stories in this vein just come off as completely ridiculous, because the writers don’t want to put the time and effort into creating realistic motivations and compelling moments of decision making.

The novel Tampa by Alissa Nutting tackles that dilemma perfectly so worth a read, very erotic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa_(novel)

 

[MsNatalie99]

we've all noticed how the self-appointed forum police aren't beyond the occasional bit of name calling. One of the surest signals of a failed argument.

You were the first to sling insults... what does that say about your argument? Also, if you are above our crude works, or the site itself, why join? I'm trying to see your reasoning, but all I see is hate and hypocrisy.

 

[EarlyMorningLight]

And I'll leave you with this one to ease your jittery mind with its wondering how folk will react to your last-wordism attempt: yes, we've all noticed how the self-appointed forum police aren't beyond the occasional bit of name calling. One of the surest signals of a failed argument.

I love how entitled walnuts claim censorship when their half-baked ramblings aren’t shown absolute deference. You can say whatever you want. It doesn’t mean that anyone has to respect you.

 

[ElectricBlue]

The novel Tampa by Alissa Nutting tackles that dilemma perfectly so worth a read, very erotic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa_(novel)

Very erotic, but also very disturbing. Interesting the way Nutting resolved the dilemma by having the protagonist suffer a moral punishment for her actions.

 

[36b7]

Very erotic, but also very disturbing. Interesting the way Nutting resolved the dilemma by having the protagonist suffer a moral punishment for her actions.

I just finished Made For Love by the same author - a strange story but yet a page turner.

 

[Magineer]

And I'll leave you with this one to ease your jittery mind with its wondering how folk will react to your last-wordism attempt: yes, we've all noticed how the self-appointed forum police aren't beyond the occasional bit of name calling. One of the surest signals of a failed argument.

On the mark.

Coming back to this thread, I find that an honestly expressed opinion which actually details (a fairly indisputable) fact is shouted down - because it runs counter to the touchy-feely, let's-all-clap-each-other-on-the-back-aren't-I-ever-so-'inclusive' strutting of certain individuals. The irony actually is that, as far as I can see, you were not criticising 'wank material' beyond its self-evident shortfalls, still less proposing any sanctions, but merely putting up a fairly meek reminder of its prevalence on the site.

In future maybe bear in mind that, for some here, running with the gang and getting 'views' and 'likes' is very important to them, easily trumping logic and what they regard as inconvenient truths, not to be mentioned.

 

[8letters]

Despite some of the noise, it's an interesting thread, but I wish EarlyMorningLight would change on thing: the word "paradox" to "challenge." I don't see anything paradoxical about suspension of disbelief in erotic stories, any more than in any other type of story. But it's a constant challenge if you like, as I do, stories that test the boundaries of erotic things most people would be likely to do.

I think the paradox EarlyMorningLight was talking about is that the reader knows generally what the plot is before they start a story, but the writer has to write the story like the reader doesn't know what's going to happen. For example, any reader clicking on my I/T story "My Sister Set Me Up on a Blind Date" already knows the brother is going to be the narrator, his sister is going to set him up on a blind date with herself, and at the end they are going to have sex. But I wrote the story as if the reader doesn't know those things are going to happen in order to give it more verisimilitude.

 

[SimonDoom]

Lots of writers are simply far removed from the realm of non-hetero sex. Especially fan-writers. Gay, lesbian, multiple partners, whatever. (I won't get any other labels in here.) But, some of them are competent enough to represent something wonderful through some form of research & passed-down info, plus lots of writing experience. Mostly, there are those who don't have this and write crap.

Most stuff out there is crap. Same is true for any genre of writing. But, in the case of me failing to suspend disbelief for the sake of erotic writing? Be a straight person and try to write gay porn (a romance, even). I'll likely see that in the writing itself, and it will not be sexy or engaging.

Can you be more specific? Specifically what kinds of things in a gay male sex story would turn you off and make it difficult for you to suspend disbelief? What would help you suspend disbelief?

I'm straight, but I'm working on a gay male story. It's a very interesting challenge, as you can imagine. The concept is a man who has always identified as straight goes to a convention out of town, meets someone, and has a gay encounter. So I have to deal with the challenge: what would impel an adult man who has identified as straight to have a gay encounter? Plausibility is a key to the story's success.

What kinds of things make a story about a gay encounter successful, for you?

 

[8letters]

In that case, maybe one can also help it along by having more vague titles and more suggestive rather than descriptive short-descriptions. That way, you may have a guess at the premise from the start but not an immediate idea of how everything is going to unfold. Of course, if it's I/T, you know it's going to be incest. But how it turns out that way could be obscured?

Not just saying for this story, I mean in general. But I also understand that many readers on this site might just be looking for the most clearly communicated Quick Orgasm via title, right? (Though as writers, we don't have to attend to that. It's up to us.)

I think just the opposite. Readers who click on "My Sister Set Me Up on a Blind Date" are receptive about reading a story with the plot my story has, they get a story that fulfills their expectations about the plot, and they are almost always happy about that (4.80 rating). I don't think readers are looking for surprises. Just the opposite - they want a story that meets their early expectations. The title is how you market your story. It makes a promise to the reader of what the story is going to be about, and the more detailed the promise, the better (as long as you deliver on it).

 

[SimonDoom]

I think just the opposite. Readers who click on "My Sister Set Me Up on a Blind Date" are receptive about reading a story with the plot my story has, they get a story that fulfills their expectations about the plot, and they are almost always happy about that (4.80 rating). I don't think readers are looking for surprises. Just the opposite - they want a story that meets their early expectations. The title is how you market your story. It makes a promise to the reader of what the story is going to be about, and the more detailed the promise, the better (as long as you deliver on it).

I agree with this. When it comes to titles, and tags, and taglines, and category choice, "truth in advertising" is the way to go. Don't be vague. Don't be too coy. Let readers know what they can expect.

But in the body of the story, it helps not to jump into things too quickly. Your stories are mostly about brothers and sisters getting together. That's, for most readers, an improbable thing. As an author you have to get your readers over that hump. The success of your stories, IMO, is that you take a relatively long time figuring out how to get from A to B. I think that approach pays off most of the time.

 

[EarlyMorningLight]

In the past, I have found it difficult to suspend my disbelief with some written gay porn. I'd see works, for example, that were written in a way that would completely take me out. Without writing a whole pleasantly-worded, lengthy write-up about what I mean and all the ways I couldn't "believe" what I have read before... it was kind of like I was reading the work of virgins who hadn't done their research.

Of course, you don't have to have sex to write about sex. You don't have to fight in a war to write about it. It can help, but it's not required. You can never assume a writer's level of experience, especially when they are damn good at writing about it. But, there are instances where I have seen someone write about an experience so poorly, that it really makes me stop thinking about the story and start believing that the writer knows nothing about a convincing, sexual/sensual experience.

Lots of writers are simply far removed from the realm of non-hetero sex. Especially fan-writers. Gay, lesbian, multiple partners, whatever. (I won't get any other labels in here.) But, some of them are competent enough to represent something wonderful through some form of research & passed-down info, plus lots of writing experience. Mostly, there are those who don't have this and write crap.

Most stuff out there is crap. Same is true for any genre of writing. But, in the case of me failing to suspend disbelief for the sake of erotic writing? Be a straight person and try to write gay porn (a romance, even). I'll likely see that in the writing itself, and it will not be sexy or engaging.

This is also true with the majority of stuff I’ve seen in the Trans category here. Story after story written by cis dudes who have obviously never even met a transwoman, much less had sex with one.

 

[yowser]

As for your specific question: what would impel an adult man who has identified as straight to have a gay encounter?

The reasons why many straight-identified men have sex with other men are multiple, but they come down to a couple key factors. These men are not closeted gay or bisexual men. They are typically comfortable in their hetero- romantic attraction towards women and have no current intentions of changing that.

Thoughtful responses.

Couple others:

Inadvertently stumble upon a cruising area or nude beach, witness some 'public' sex taking place. Voyeur arousal takes over, maybe an invitation to join. Sudden, opportunistic thrill.

Relnacting an early adolescent experience (working this angle myself in a story in progress, although will need care in the under-18 rule business.) Lots more same-sex contact early on than many hetero males will admit to, and in the story the MC can rationalise it (even if married - not cheating!) since it is just 'messing around' like earlier in his sexual life.