Do you think submission is a gift?

[cookiecat]

This is something I hear quite often.

The whole gift thing feels a little like the Hallmark version D/s. My submission isn't a pretty gift, all wrapped up to hand someone.

But then, I feel all cranky and cynical these days so I could be way off base. Maybe it is a precious thing?

What do you think?

 

[seela]

This is something I hear quite often.

The whole gift thing feels a little like the Hallmark version D/s. My submission isn't a pretty gift, all wrapped up to hand someone.

But then, I feel all cranky and cynical these days so I could be way off base. Maybe it is a precious thing?

What do you think?

I've always thought the gift thing is... what's a polite and non-offensive way to say marketing BS? (I'm sorry, I'm too brained out to come up with a different wording.) A lot of people see it otherwise, so to many there is something to it, but it just doesn't resonate with me and my experiences.

I think my quite strong and rather negative reaction to the gift speech is at least partially because I can't separate my submission as a special box that I hand to a person - it just is - and my submission isn't necessarily the pretty kind the black and white bdsm meme pics depict. And partially it's probably just my general aversion to fluffy, romantic things and ceremonies.

One thing I've never understood about this gift thing is that often the people who see submission as a gift also say that they can take their submission back. Which is fair and how it should be, you shouldn't submit to someone you don't feel comfortable doing that with. But how is it a gift if you can take it back?

My submission could be a gift in an awesome humiliation scene that involves ribbon and a big bow, though.

(PS. I think this could be a Talk thread?)

 

[ToPleaseHim]

I have always thought the “my submission is a gift” feels hallmarky and overly romantic. I also loathe holidays like Valentine’s Day and Sweetest Day, while others love things like that. I think like everything else this really works for some people and feels really off for others.

(PS I agree and hope Cookie is okay with me moving this to Talk)

 

[Steady67]

I have never like the submission as a gift idea as a way to describe what submission is or how a submissive should be treated. It is just a round about way of saying respect me and don’t fuck me over. I much prefer the latter.

That being said - I will admit to having used the phrase in conversations with my partner over the years. In that case it feels more like a “sweet nothing” you say when you are both in the weirdly, wonderful place in a relationship where you say dumb stuff but it does not sound or feel dumb because in the moment. In those moments it is less about what submission is and just kind of the moment.

But, all other times, yeah —- no thanks.

 

[wicked woman]

You never hear about someone's dominance being a gift, do you? Wonder why? Because it's not...any more than someone's submission is a gift. When I hear that, I just cringe...if I'm not screaming 'no, no, no'! Then my mind goes to the submissive that thinks they can stop being responsible for adulting and incapable of making the simplest decision themself. Nope, not my kind of submission.

My submission is not a gift. It's who I am in certain very special relationship.. Doesn't happen often. Doesn't happen enough. How I act in an intimate relationship, while hopefully apprecitated, is definitely not a gift.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

I think that any human endeavor where you offer your vulnerability to another person is a gift.

Submission and dominance can be among the most vulnerable of human relations, and involve removing masks and trusting another person (or persons) with your deepest needs, your emotional safety, and often, your physical safety.

So yes, submission, given in honesty and good faith, is a gift — and the same is true of dominance.

 

[Smoothshavendad]

I think that any human endeavor where you offer your vulnerability to another person is a gift.

Submission and dominance can be among the most vulnerable of human relations, and involve removing masks and trusting another person (or persons) with your deepest needs, your emotional safety, and often, your physical safety.

So yes, submission, given in honesty and good faith, is a gift — and the same is true of dominance.

I completely agree!!!

 

[ToPleaseHim]

I think that any human endeavor where you offer your vulnerability to another person is a gift.

Submission and dominance can be among the most vulnerable of human relations, and involve removing masks and trusting another person (or persons) with your deepest needs, your emotional safety, and often, your physical safety.

So yes, submission, given in honesty and good faith, is a gift — and the same is true of dominance.

When you say it like that, it does sound less cheesy.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

When you say it like that, it does sound less cheesy.

I said I believed it to be true, I never said it wasn’t cheesy!

 

[cookiecat]

As I read replies and think about my own experience, it occurs to me I've only heard the gift analogy from men.

Is it a guy thing?

 

[JadeNYC]

My submission is not a gift anymore than my partner's erection is a gift - it's a part of me, a fact, a mindset and a means to great ends. Calling it a gift is silly and dresses it up way too much.

 

[JadeNYC]

As I read replies and think about my own experience, it occurs to me I've only heard the gift analogy from men.

Is it a guy thing?

It could be for the guys who think their partner needs buttering up, but not for all I'm sure.

 

[wicked woman]

As I read replies and think about my own experience, it occurs to me I've only heard the gift analogy from men.

Is it a guy thing?

No, I've heard many women, who identify as submissives, say it's a gift.

 

[Primalex]

Gift - noun [Middle English, from Old Norse, first appeared 12th Century]
1 : a notable capacity, talent, or endowment.
2 :
(a) something voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation;
(b) something freely given by one person to another for his benefit or pleasure.


Submission can be a gift, as in being a talent, but it can not be given. There's no doubt for me that many submissives have notable capacities, talents and endowments that are recognizable as valuable submissive traits or characteristics. I believe that there are certain "gifts" that are necessary for someone to be a submissive. And I believe that someone who has those necessary traits is, in fact, a "gifted" individual from my point of view.

But submissives are neither transferring freely nor without compensation their submission.

If you are negotiating at all about how you will or won't submit, and in what ways to which kinds of things and then add in the concept of safewords, we end up with a gift that the person you gave it to, can use it freely only in the ways you tell them they are permitted to and must cease using immediately if you ever say so.

Once a gift has been "voluntarily and freely transferred to me for my benefit and pleasure" I do not expect that the giver would expect to retain any right or power to retake the gift.

And would any submissive really say that they'd enter into a power exchange relationship where there was no exchange at all? If you didn't receive whatever it is that you consider valuable in return, would you really enter into the relationship? Or would you really stay in it if there was absolutely nothing of any value at all in it for you?

My preference is to have someone simply come to me because she has desires, wants and needs that she wishes to satisfy. Not for some altruistic reason. Not because she's packaged her submission as some kind of reward for me for being a good boy (or bad boy). But because she desires, wants and needs to be owned and to be owned by me, to serve and to serve me, and because she wishes to live her life knowing that she's doing exactly what she desires, wants and needs to do.

Her submission is something that she "owns" fully. And I mean "owns" in the sense that she's fully responsible for her submission, at all times. Depending on the road we choose to travel together perhaps it's the only thing that she'll fully own - but I'm not receiving a gift. I'm merely there to squelch the submissive's own demons.

(The use of gendered text is not intended as discrimination of male submissives.)

 

[MeekMe]

I don’t see my submission as a gift. I can’t view it that way as I think gifts are given without expectations and can’t be taken back. I don’t give freely, there is an exchange and I fully expect to “get mine.” But I understand the sentiment when one refers to their submission as a gift. It can be empowering I guess, for those that need a reminder to treat themselves well.

It seems like a way to remind those involved to tread gently. Treat it like a precious gift to avoid resentment and negative feelings. Not a bad thing.

But it’s not a view I hold. It’s an incompatibility with my mindset.

 

[Ginlover]

Primlax explained one reason I don’t see it as a gift because the submissive will want something in return, even if that is just attention.

My other issue with a gift is can I refuse it? Does the submission come with a gift receipt ? Can I pass the gift on or give it to a charity shop when I don’t want it any more ? Nope

To me a dynamic is like buying coffee — even better if you are craving it. I don’t walk into the electrical store and demand they sell me coffee no matter how desperate I am for caffeine. I go to a coffee shop, I give the server money in return they give me a coffee to quench my cravings. It’s a two way exchange. We have preagreed negotiation; I know the coffee shop sells coffee and the owner has said they need money to give me a product because that’s how shops work.

In circles where submission is discussed as a gift I often see Domination called a gift. Gifts are exchanged both ways.

To pull away from thinking submission is a gift is romantic D/s ask lots of women about the self declared male submissive who has contacted them. That man speaks as if it is his god given right to demand to accept his submission. He doesn’t care if you identify as a submissive too or are a lesbian. His attitude and words scream it’s a gift now fucking take it and dominate me.

If you’re a lady who hasn’t experienced this type of man read some of the male submission stories on lit as you’ll not see much care given if the fictional Domme wants the gift or not. If fact read some heterosexual D/s written by submissive women... again you will often see the woman ‘gifting’ her submission and not caring if the man wants it. But of course he will accept it because this is fantasy land and not real life.

 

[zali]

Like so many topics under the BDSM banner, this 'gift' of submission also comes with personal interpretation and preference.

Ultimately of course, it doesn't really matter who feels or thinks what, if they're happy and it works for them, well, it's all good.

Personally though, and oh yes, we all knew where I was going, I may not call it a 'gift', but what I do is yield control, implement an insanely high degree of trust and ultimately submit myself to him. I give these things to him.

 

[Smoothshavendad]

Like so many topics under the BDSM banner, this 'gift' of submission also comes with personal interpretation and preference.

Ultimately of course, it doesn't really matter who feels or thinks what, if they're happy and it works for them, well, it's all good.

Personally though, and oh yes, we all knew where I was going, I may not call it a 'gift', but what I do is yield control, implement an insanely high degree of trust and ultimately submit myself to him. I give these things to him.

Such a sexy gift....

 

[ashkitten]

This is something I hear quite often.

The whole gift thing feels a little like the Hallmark version D/s. My submission isn't a pretty gift, all wrapped up to hand someone.

But then, I feel all cranky and cynical these days so I could be way off base. Maybe it is a precious thing?

What do you think?

I've never liked that wording, agreed that it feels very Hallmark.

Also, tbh, my submission is selfish. I submit because I like the way it feels. If I didn't like the way a Dom made me feel - mentally/physically/emotionally - I would not be involved with that Dom.

 

[Red__Herring]

From the replies it becomes clear that a submissive's submission is a part of their nature. And domination, for the large part, is learned through experience (please correct me if I am wrong). Wouldn't submission then be a gift (something like a talent, not something which is unconditionally given)?

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

From the replies it becomes clear that a submissive's submission is a part of their nature. And domination, for the large part, is learned through experience (please correct me if I am wrong). Wouldn't submission then be a gift (something like a talent, not something which is unconditionally given)?

Submissiveness and dominance are part of people’s nature. Submitting and dominating are learned through experience.

I do think sharing one’s essential nature with others — one’s talents, qualities, vulnerabilities — is giving others gifts, although I can see how a transactional case can be made for any human interaction.

 

[cocktaildress21]

Well - I'll be counterpoint, since that seems to be my thing.

I get it. I could be submissive with any man I'm with - but I'm not. I don't have the required respect for 99% of the men I meet, and so I'm not submissive towards them. That doesn't mean I only have good sex with 1% of all men, but it means I don't do BDSM with most of them.

Not to sound overly promiscuous, but I do have an active sex life and a Tinder profile I use.

Anyways, when I do run into a man how .. instills a certain feeling of 'inferiority' in me, then yes, I can see it: I give you this side of me as a gift, because I feel like you deserve it.

Also, that type of man reacts very satisfyingly to it. Which, in turn, is very good for me.

 

[ToPleaseHim]

Submissiveness and dominance are part of people’s nature. Submitting and dominating are learned through experience.

I do think sharing one’s essential nature with others — one’s talents, qualities, vulnerabilities — is giving others gifts, although I can see how a transactional case can be made for any human interaction.

Maybe I just don’t like the word “gift”.

I love your first paragraph.

I’m with Fara on this one. 1. I like the way you put words together, DGE. 2. I think I just don’t care for the word gift, but I understand it in this context. Sharing vulnerabilities is one of the best things about any relationship and, in my experience, it’s heightened in a BDSM relationship because of the level of trust needed to share desires that may be very dark.

 

[Deleted member 5428187]

This is something I hear quite often.

The whole gift thing feels a little like the Hallmark version D/s. My submission isn't a pretty gift, all wrapped up to hand someone.

But then, I feel all cranky and cynical these days so I could be way off base. Maybe it is a precious thing?

What do you think?

I’m wondering if the word “gift” is the issue. It can mean something special given to another or a natural ability.

I think all of us have certain inclinations and things we are good at. We are “hardwired” in distinct ways. Doesn’t mean we can’t grow, evolve, and try new things. I learned at an early age that some things really turned me on and others didn’t. I tend to lean toward the dominant side of things, but now I’m exploring other avenues as well. I admit, it feels a bit awkward at first but I think that’s what it takes to grow.

As for the other meaning of “gift,” I think any time we give ourselves to someone else in any way it is a gift that should be received with appreciation.

 

[SimonDoom]

I don't quite agree with this concept. I think the essence of satisfying and healthy BDSM is "exchange" rather than "gift." Two people come together who have different, but complementary, needs and desires. One submits, one dominates. Both get what they want. "Gift" is not a word that describes that relationship. It's an exchange.