Punishment as issue closure

[Primalex]

Let's say you screwed up somehow and your PYL is justifiable not in the best mood about it and you feel bad about it.

How would you prefer to have this currently lingering problem be resolved, so everyone can move on?

Would you rather
- hide and wait for it to become a non-issue over time?
- try to make up for this somehow on your own?
- prefer to be sentenced to a punishment with the mutual understanding that this resolves the issue?
- ...?

 

[SissySalina]

She has the right to punish, whether that closes the issue or not that is entirely up to Her. sissy will try to make it up no matter what the punishment is.

 

[HUNGRYHOLLOW]

Punish her when it happens that way there’s no misunderstanding what she’s being punished for
When you’re done tell her good girl I’m proud of you

 

[ToPleaseHim]

I would aim to try to make up for it on my own, but would definitely be open to a punishment that would resolve the issue. I do worry that a punishment intended to resolve the issue may not resolve it in my mind, though. I would probably need to talk and be reassured that it was truly forgiven and to make sure I understand the entire situation so this doesn’t repeat.

 

[ultramarineblue]

I would aim to try to make up for it on my own, but would definitely be open to a punishment that would resolve the issue. I do worry that a punishment intended to resolve the issue may not resolve it in my mind, though. I would probably need to talk and be reassured that it was truly forgiven and to make sure I understand the entire situation so this doesn’t repeat.

I'd probably be like this as well.

 

[Cakecups]

I would want to say punishment but realistically I’d try and hide/wait for it to be a non issue

 

[twister947]

We don't choose our emotions...some take root, some don't. We can't discard them at will. Oh, that it were that easy!

 

[o_pague]

very sensible

I do worry that a punishment intended to resolve the issue may not resolve it in my mind, though. I would probably need to talk and be reassured that it was truly forgiven and to make sure I understand the entire situation so this doesn’t repeat.

Very sensible observation. In our experience, for me to just accept punishment from the Missus without it being couched in mutual understanding and agreement on resolving the issue would be setting her up as an abuser and me as a victim--definitely NOT what we have in mind when I am submitting to her.

 

[MeekMe]

Let's say you screwed up somehow and your PYL is justifiable not in the best mood about it and you feel bad about it.

How would you prefer to have this currently lingering problem be resolved, so everyone can move on?

Would you rather
- hide and wait for it to become a non-issue over time?
- try to make up for this somehow on your own?
- prefer to be sentenced to a punishment with the mutual understanding that this resolves the issue?
- ...?

Does the PYL need this to feel it is resolved?

If so, okay, fine we can do that if it helps them. Will it resolve things on my end? Probably not. If I’m already aware that I fucked up I’m already beating myself up about it pretty hard. Identifying the issue and planning how to not fuck up again? That’s more me.

Though, depending on the type of fuck up, maybe any of those choices above or a little of all? Does the PYL need to not see my face for a few hours so they can enjoy a hobby and feel better? Cool, I’ll gladly hide until they’re feeling in a better mood. Chances are I don’t want them to see my face either at that time. Also, I might try to make up for it, if it makes sense and rarely occurs. But I truthfully don’t feel that “making up for it” is really actually making up for anything. There shouldn’t be something to make up for in the first place. And there it is, how harshly I will judge myself. ^

I’d prefer to constructively work on a solution to avoid future situations arising. Also, remember I’m human and have all the human-ee ways of failing miserably despite my best efforts.

 

[cookiecat]

I'd want to make up for it on my own. Show contrition. Prove I'm not a fuck up and can be a functional adult.

But I crave punishment. There's something hopeful? renewing? about wiping the slate clean and moving on. Enduring punishment, having a good cry and letting the transgression go. Otherwise, I'll beat myself up more than he ever could. I want his forgiveness and this seems like the most clear cut way to feel it.

It also depends on the "crime". Is it something I've fucked up again and again? Was it an honest error? Did I blow him off?

Sometimes just sitting down and talking it over like rational adults throws me for a loop because I was expecting something more dramatic.

 

[Primalex]

If I’m already aware that I fucked up I’m already beating myself up about it pretty hard.

And this is why I was thinking about a closure, after all: How would a pyl know she can stop beating herself up about it if the pyl can't retroactively fix it? Are mere words of the PYL sufficient to stop worrying about it? Or does the pyl then just start worrying about worrying too much then?

 

[Primalex]

I'd want to make up for it on my own. Show contrition. Prove I'm not a fuck up and can be a functional adult.

But I crave punishment. There's something hopeful? renewing? about wiping the slate clean and moving on. Enduring punishment, having a good cry and letting the transgression go. Otherwise, I'll beat myself up more than he ever could. I want his forgiveness and this seems like the most clear cut way to feel it.

This very much captures my train of thought.

 

[MeekMe]

And this is why I was thinking about a closure, after all: How would a pyl know she can stop beating herself up about it if the pyl can't retroactively fix it? Are mere words of the PYL sufficient to stop worrying about it? Or does the pyl then just start worrying about worrying too much then?

Punishment is surface level for me. Good for show and maybe some immediate “fix” but in the long run isn’t helpful. We’re made up of our experiences, and for me, growing up included punishment and that punishment wasn’t one and done. There would be numerous instances of things being brought up over and over and sometimes seemingly for absolutely no other reason than to make me feel guilty.

And punishment never changed the behavior so it would continue to repeat. Well, it DID change the behavior a little. It made me hide EVERYTHING. The fear of punishment made everything this huge anxiety inducing fear over everything. Especially because I lived in a household with a mother you could never tell what would set her off. Is today the day she finally packs her shit and abandons you like she’s been threatening? Who knows, but the fear was very real and left me understanding that punishment isn’t renewing or helpful for the long term it just hangs over you like an impending threat.

Can words work? Yes. What went wrong? Does it feel bad that it went wrong? How can this work moving forward? I prefer a clear discussion and a working plan to avoid the mistake in the future.

Punishment feels like forgiveness to others. It feels like a threat to me. Do this OR ELSE... That fills me with more anxiety. I’m not following because if I don’t I’ll be punished for it. I’m following because I want to and fucking up isn’t my intention.

The only way punishment works for me is if that’s what the other needs to feel better about it. If they can let it go without that, and can tell me so, I’m going to do my best to take their word for it.

 

[MissMandy86]

Definitely
hide and wait for it to become a non-issue over time

 

[LauraWilling]

I would like to make up for it on my own, but the reality is it is not my choice to make, it is my Masters completely. So I expect I would be punished immediately and it would be settled and paid for.

 

[cookiecat]

In reading Meek's reply about why punishment doesn't quite work for her, it struck me that the way I was raised created my desire to be punished. I had no rules, no boundaries as a kid. Fortunately I was a pretty good kid but I recall feeling like I was floundering a lot. Untethered. When I fucked up, there were no consequences. I did what I want when I wanted. At times, it made entering adulthood challenging.

Now, I respond more to concrete consequences. Sometimes it seems goofy and arbitrary. It's all a big circle though - the expectations have to be clear. Lots of communication to prevent misunderstanding. Actually enforcing consequences and not letting things slide.

Ultimately, I mostly want to have a "normal" relationship where we actually talk to each other about issues. What worked, why expectations weren't met, what happened. You know. Adult conversation.

For sure, though, there isn't a one size fits all punishment. It's really important to understand what past triggers could prevent successful resolution

 

[Bramblethorn]

I'd want to make up for it on my own. Show contrition. Prove I'm not a fuck up and can be a functional adult.

But I crave punishment. There's something hopeful? renewing? about wiping the slate clean and moving on. Enduring punishment, having a good cry and letting the transgression go. Otherwise, I'll beat myself up more than he ever could. I want his forgiveness and this seems like the most clear cut way to feel it.

I saw this thread a few days ago and wrote it off as not relevant to me, but Cookie's post made me rethink. It wasn't in a BDSM relationship context, and it wasn't a transgression exactly, but a few years back I used pain (tattooing) as a form of catharsis to give me permission to let go of something heavy I'd been carrying around for years. One of those things that feel like they have to be earned with pain.

 

[MeekMe]

In reading Meek's reply about why punishment doesn't quite work for her, it struck me that the way I was raised created my desire to be punished. I had no rules, no boundaries as a kid. Fortunately I was a pretty good kid but I recall feeling like I was floundering a lot. Untethered. When I fucked up, there were no consequences. I did what I want when I wanted. At times, it made entering adulthood challenging.

I come from equal parts neglect and abuse. If you were old enough to walk you were old enough to fend for yourself for food. Long summers locked outdoors. There were no clear cut rules. Just don’t fuck up? Maybe more like don’t make the parents angry? And then there was “why are you so angry????” No structure, lots of free time, and rare encouragement towards things like education or being an upstanding citizen. Ok, wait, my father warned me never to go to jail because he would “let me rot” if it ever happened. I was a well-behaved kid really. I just did dumb kid stuff.

I, unfortunately, unofficially entered adulthood young as the caretaker of siblings and household when my parents checked out completely. Physical punishment pretty much went away at a certain point because marks get you taken away by the state.

٩( ᐛ )و this silly face feels appropriate.

 

[cookiecat]

Oh Meek.

 

[Master_Doctor]

Let's say you screwed up somehow and your PYL is justifiable not in the best mood about it and you feel bad about it.

How would you prefer to have this currently lingering problem be resolved, so everyone can move on?

Would you rather
- hide and wait for it to become a non-issue over time?
- try to make up for this somehow on your own?
- prefer to be sentenced to a punishment with the mutual understanding that this resolves the issue?
- ...?

For me and most of the subs Ive owned and or collared through the years... if they break a rule or mess up something big (that they should have known better). Then a punishment will be issued... and after its over... the subject is never brought up again unless it continues to re-occure. Once they admit their fault... and we finish with the punishment (different for each sub) they are forgiven and move on.

Thats how I do it anyway (for those of mine that want punishment as a part of the dynamic. Not everyone deals well with it. IME if someone enjoys how you punish them... then its no longer punishment (because its ineffective) and you have to find something else that works for them. Each person is different.

 

[Master_Doctor]

you bring up an excellent point.

I would aim to try to make up for it on my own, but would definitely be open to a punishment that would resolve the issue. I do worry that a punishment intended to resolve the issue may not resolve it in my mind, though. I would probably need to talk and be reassured that it was truly forgiven and to make sure I understand the entire situation so this doesn’t repeat.

If a sub is punished.. the Dom really needs do a few things to make it work.

1. Dont punish if/while you are angry. Wait until you are in complete control of yourself. Walk away if need be if its that bad.

2. Make it clear to your sub why and what she is being punished for. Never make her wonder. You can really hurt a subs mental/ emotional state if you are not clear and honest with her. This is not the time for mind games.

3. Once the punishment is completed. Make sure to let her know that... ok we are done. You are forgiven, We dont have to discuss this anymore. Remind her that she is loved and treasured and her mistake doesnt change that and her willingness to address it and be responsible has made you proud of her.

4. Never set your sub up to fail. Never set her up so that she has no choice but to break a rule so you can punish her... thats sadistic.. I guess if you both are into that... its ok... but for the rest of us... its really hurtful to a subs mental/emotional makeup.


If my choice of pronouns offends, please forgive. Im a straight male Dom. My adivce is equally good regardless of the sex of the Dom or sub in question. I tend to speak from my natural position. Thank you for your understanding.

 

[lisaharlot]

I don’t understand what you mean by “issue”. Was it part of your agreed upon rules for the D/s component of your relationship or was it a relationship issue? Punishing somebody for a relationship issue isn’t going to solve anything and it can cross the line into abuse. The whole punishment thing is weird to me in general. If I’m in top, I’m going to whip somebody because I want to whip them and they want me to. If I’m subbing, I want you to whip me because you enjoy it and I want you to please you and I like it. (Although it’s fun when doing chore play to get “punished” for missing a spot and then rewarded the same way for doing a good job).

The only real way to resolve a relationship issue is to communicate about it. Trying to resolve through punishment, depending on the specifics, can be violence. Safe, sane, consensual, forever and always.

 

[Master_Doctor]

I don’t understand what you mean by “issue”. Was it part of your agreed upon rules for the D/s component of your relationship or was it a relationship issue? Punishing somebody for a relationship issue isn’t going to solve anything and it can cross the line into abuse. The whole punishment thing is weird to me in general. If I’m in top, I’m going to whip somebody because I want to whip them and they want me to. If I’m subbing, I want you to whip me because you enjoy it and I want you to please you and I like it. (Although it’s fun when doing chore play to get “punished” for missing a spot and then rewarded the same way for doing a good job).

The only real way to resolve a relationship issue is to communicate about it. Trying to resolve through punishment, depending on the specifics, can be violence. Safe, sane, consensual, forever and always.

Punishments are normally a part of Authoritative Dynamic relationships. Where in yes, you have rules that are negotiated. Because the sub (for their own mix of reasons) NEEDS these rules. Some have a difficult time with structure and getting (A, B, C) things done in a way that THEY feel they need to. So they ask their Dom/ Master to set up these rules and to give them the structure they need to succeed in (A, B, C).

Punishment is not Funishment. It is not the Fetishes that you enjoy. They are like any punishment in any discussion. An Act used to correct incorrect or bad behavior. So say my sub/slave enjoys me using a flogger on her.. or spanking her. Well then I sure wouldnt do either of those things to punish her unacceptable behavior (by mutual decree). Thats why this is normally not considered abuse. Both sides agree to the rules before hand. Abuse is when a Dom chooses to punish a sub because they enjoy doing it... and not having a reasonable reason (or mutually agreed upon reason).


So... if the person I have authority over chooses to break the rules... and if I say.. ok you know you broke the rules... and by our agreement.. I have to be the heavy and leavy a punishment to remind you the price for breaking the rules we both agreed to... because YOU asked me to. Is that abuse? Not as long as im being reasonable and not overbearing.

Does that help any?

MD

 

[Mei5ter]

Let's say you screwed up somehow and your PYL is justifiable not in the best mood about it and you feel bad about it.

How would you prefer to have this currently lingering problem be resolved, so everyone can move on?

Would you rather
- hide and wait for it to become a non-issue over time?
- try to make up for this somehow on your own?
- prefer to be sentenced to a punishment with the mutual understanding that this resolves the issue?
- ...?

Out of interest, what if it's the PYL who screws up? How would the pyl prefer the issue be resolved?

 

[wallstreetguy]

I come from equal parts neglect and abuse. If you were old enough to walk you were old enough to fend for yourself for food. Long summers locked outdoors. There were no clear cut rules. Just don’t fuck up? Maybe more like don’t make the parents angry? And then there was “why are you so angry????” No structure, lots of free time, and rare encouragement towards things like education or being an upstanding citizen. Ok, wait, my father warned me never to go to jail because he would “let me rot” if it ever happened. I was a well-behaved kid really. I just did dumb kid stuff.

I, unfortunately, unofficially entered adulthood young as the caretaker of siblings and household when my parents checked out completely. Physical punishment pretty much went away at a certain point because marks get you taken away by the state.

٩( ᐛ )و this silly face feels appropriate.

I am so sorry for what you went through. I hope you find happiness.
It is the best revenge and the ultimate closure.