Republicans are quite simply un-American

[YDB95]

It's not a subjective question about 300 million peoples feelings and thoughts.

Oh, of course it is. The USA is an extremely diverse place with a lot of very different points of view, and always has been so. Some Americans have very different values from others, and neither is necessarily un-American in any way.

 

[Ireadforpleasure]

The Constitution was originally written to say,

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

If the Republicans had their way, it would be re-written to say,

"Congress shall make many laws establishing Christianity as the official religion of the United States of America and prohibiting the free exercise of Hinduism, Wicca, Islam and other heretical religions. Freedom of speech, or of the press shall be limited to prohibit the American people from taking the Lords name in vain or engaging in blasphemy. The right of people to assemble peacefully will also be limited to keep the people from engaging in anti-Christian activities or encouraging others to do so."

Freedom of religion and separation of church and state have been considered American values ever since 1789, when James Madison drafted the Constitution of the United States. However, republicans such as Rick Santorum, Phil Bryant, Mike Huckabee, David Barton and Bryan Fischer want to throw that all away and turn America into a Christian theocracy.

 

[Articulate_and_Analytical]

Freedom of religion and separation of church and state have been considered American values even since 1789, when James Madison drafted the Constitution of the United States. However, republicans such as Rick Santorum, Phil Bryant, Mike Huckabee, David Barton and Bryan Fischer want to throw that all away and turn America into a Christian theocracy.

David Barton, Bryan Fischer, Mike Huckabee, Phil Bryant and Rick Santorum are the most obvious examples of the pro-theocracy camp, however, they’re far from the only ones. There are large numbers of theocrats in the Republican Party, and they’re gaining influence. They’re winning elections, wielding power in our legislatures, wielding power in our armed forces, winning gubernatorial elections and spreading propaganda on America’s radio stations and cable broadcast media.


In a theocracy, you get about as far away from democracy as humanly possible. Individual rights get trashed as the individual is considered unimportant in a theocracy. God’s Will takes precedence over the rights of the individual.

America hasn’t even become a theocracy yet, and already Christian theocrats like the people I’ve mentioned above are calling for non-Christians (like atheists, agnostics, Jews, Muslims and Sikhs) to be stripped of their legal rights. Christian theocrats have also called for heretics (such as bisexuals, gays, hermaphrodites and lesbians) to be stripped of legal rights as well.

The theocrats have already passed legal statutes that make it illegal for atheists to hold public office in states like Mississippi, Tennessee and Texas.

And when the Supreme Court declared that gay couples had just as much right to marry as straight couples, Mike Huckabee declared that the states can ignore the Supreme Court, and that the Supreme Court cannot overrule God.

Huckabee has even gone so far as to say that we should amend the U.S. Constitution so that it conforms with his interpretation of what God wants.

America has never been a Christian theocracy, so we can only hypothesize just how bad a Christian theocracy would be.

However, we have actual historical evidence of what a Christian theocracy looks like. There have been a number of Christian theocracies throughout history, however the most recent one was in twentieth century Europe.

From 1939 to 1945 Slovakia was a Christian theocracy under the rule of Father Jozef Tiso (a Roman Catholic priest).

Jozef Tiso ran the country as a Christian Theocracy and only ONE political party was allowed to operate in Slovakia. This was the Slovak People’s Party which was an overtly religious party and avowedly Catholic.

Only Catholics were allowed to run for public office and many priests served in the Slovak legislature. All legislation had to conform to religious dogma.

As you may have guessed, non-Christians in Slovakia were stripped of their legal rights. The Christian theocracy deported about 70,000 Jews, claiming that it was “a Christian act to expel the Jews so Slovakia could free itself from pests.”

Those Slovak Jews were all deported directly to extermination camps. More than 85% of those deported died brutal, ugly deaths while in those camps.

This should give you some idea as to what a Christian theocracy would look like if the Republicans succeeded in creating one in America.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Oh, of course it is. The USA is an extremely diverse place with a lot of very different points of view, and always has been so. Some Americans have very different values from others, and neither is necessarily un-American in any way.

So you think there is nothing un-American about Nazism??

WOW.

Good to know though.

I don't think US values are totally subjective and anything goes.

Considering our founding, founding documents and that for over two centuries we've been pouring millions of lives and trillions of dollars into fighting authoritarian and collectivist values both left and right, domestically and globally?

I think it's pretty apparent that there are value sets out there that are absolutely anti-American. Doesn't matter if 50 million people in the US support it.

Even if they were 150 million strong, Nazis are STILL un-American....100 fuckin' percent.

 

[icanhelp1]

David Barton, Bryan Fischer, Mike Huckabee, Phil Bryant and Rick Santorum are the most obvious examples of the pro-theocracy camp, however, they’re far from the only ones. There are large numbers of theocrats in the Republican Party, and they’re gaining influence. They’re winning elections, wielding power in our legislatures, wielding power in our armed forces, winning gubernatorial elections and spreading propaganda on America’s radio stations and cable broadcast media.


In a theocracy, you get about as far away from democracy as humanly possible. Individual rights get trashed as the individual is considered unimportant in a theocracy. God’s Will takes precedence over the rights of the individual.

America hasn’t even become a theocracy yet, and already Christian theocrats like the people I’ve mentioned above are calling for non-Christians (like atheists, agnostics, Jews, Muslims and Sikhs) to be stripped of their legal rights. Christian theocrats have also called for heretics (such as bisexuals, gays, hermaphrodites and lesbians) to be stripped of legal rights as well.

The theocrats have already passed legal statutes that make it illegal for atheists to hold public office in states like Mississippi, Tennessee and Texas.

And when the Supreme Court declared that gay couples had just as much right to marry as straight couples, Mike Huckabee declared that the states can ignore the Supreme Court, and that the Supreme Court cannot overrule God.

Huckabee has even gone so far as to say that we should amend the U.S. Constitution so that it conforms with his interpretation of what God wants.

America has never been a Christian theocracy, so we can only hypothesize just how bad a Christian theocracy would be.

However, we have actual historical evidence of what a Christian theocracy looks like. There have been a number of Christian theocracies throughout history, however the most recent one was in twentieth century Europe.

From 1939 to 1945 Slovakia was a Christian theocracy under the rule of Father Jozef Tiso (a Roman Catholic priest).

Jozef Tiso ran the country as a Christian Theocracy and only ONE political party was allowed to operate in Slovakia. This was the Slovak People’s Party which was an overtly religious party and avowedly Catholic.

Only Catholics were allowed to run for public office and many priests served in the Slovak legislature. All legislation had to conform to religious dogma.

As you may have guessed, non-Christians in Slovakia were stripped of their legal rights. The Christian theocracy deported about 70,000 Jews, claiming that it was “a Christian act to expel the Jews so Slovakia could free itself from pests.”

Those Slovak Jews were all deported directly to extermination camps. More than 85% of those deported died brutal, ugly deaths while in those camps.

This should give you some idea as to what a Christian theocracy would look like if the Republicans succeeded in creating one in America.

WOW! It's amazing how you lefty loones can confuse Judeo-Christian principles with Christian Theocracy. We don't live in Iran. When have you ever been coerced into belonging to a State Religion, NEVER!!!! because we are free to practice whatever Religion we choose. What I noticed however! is how the left hate any expression of faith, religious freedom is a threat to the anti-american, authoritarian progressives left. Progressives want god out of everyone's lives, religion is an existential threat to progressives. Maybe move to Russia and become a card carrying member of the communist party, you'll feel right at home there.

There is no statute that can be enforced when it come to an atheist holding office. More useless hyperbole.

How do any of these individuals affect you. It's free speech, so what! They don't legislate laws. You try to support your argument with the cry wolf antics, it means nothing. Take a class on how the constitution works, it may help calm you down a little, no-one is going to infringe on your devil worship.

 

[Jesus_Ateo]

Freedom of religion and separation of church and state have been considered American values even since 1789, when James Madison drafter the Constitution of the United States. However, republicans such as Rick Santorum, Phil Bryant, Mike Huckabee, David Barton and Bryan Fischer want to throw that all away and turn America into a Christian theocracy.

Civil Right, Democracy and Separation of Church and State get in the way of the agendas of Republicans like Mike Huckabee and Bryan Fischer. Those pesky American values need to be tossed aside if they're going to outlaw homosexuality, ban Muslims from serving in the U.S. military, ban Muslims from immigrating to the United States, and strip legal rights from atheists, agnostics, Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs and other non-Christians.

 

[icanhelp1]

Civil Right, Democracy and Separation of Church and State get in the way of the agendas of Republicans like Mike Huckabee and Bryan Fischer. Those pesky American values need to be tossed aside if they're going to outlaw homosexuality, ban Muslims from serving in the U.S. military, ban Muslims from immigrating to the United States, and strip legal rights from atheists, agnostics, Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs and other non-Christians.

So, is the separation of church and state under threat? Me thinks it's more CRYING WOLF SYNDROME

 

[icanhelp1]

More of creating crisis when none exist. Typical progressive MO, more of the FIRE FIRE HAIR ON FIRE!!!

 

[magicalmoments]

# 424 above.
I see the fail grade hasn't stopped dump.
He really should try harder. He still doesn't know the difference between a fact and an opinion as evidenced by his statement about the American military.
His bald assertion that the democrats do not have the support of the military is not supported by any evidence and while I have no doubt he believes it, it is only his biased opinion.
The fact is that the American military is and always has been non political. The day that changes you'll have a banana republic and I imagine dump will be one of the first to be rounded up to be sent to the correction camps.

 

[YDB95]

So you think there is nothing un-American about Nazism??

WOW.

Good to know though.

So you don't know what "not necessarily" means?

WOW.

Good to know though.

(Strictly speaking, I can see how you could construe my comment as you did if you were desperately trying to find something to take offence at. But that ain't what I said and it ain't what I meant. And yes, everything about Nazism is un-American. But you have a...shall we say, generous definition of both Nazism and communism.)

 

[The_Trouvere]

This assertion by the original poster needed to be documented. I could not find it on the internet:

"Donald Trump tells us that the United States Constitution is a 'really bad thing' and expresses frustration that the Separation of Powers keeps him from acting like a dictator."

 

[The_Trouvere]

The original poster wrote, "Americans believe in Freedom of Speech, we believe in Freedom of the Press."

I am a Democrat, born and bred. I have only voted for two Republicans in my life. I also believe in unlimited political debate. It seems to me that those on the left are most active in limiting political debate.

In April 1969 the Harvard Educational Review published an article by Berkeley Professor Arthur Jensen who argued that little could be done to increase IQ scores and educational achievement. Since then his argument has been proven by the failures of Head Start and No Child Left Behind to close the race gap.

For the rest of his career at Berkeley Professor Jensen had his classes interrupted, he received death threats. He sometimes required police protection.

In September 1971 Professor Richard Herrnstein of Harvard had an article published in the Atlantic in which he anticipated assertions he was later to combine with Charles Murray in The Bell Curve. The next spring the new left organization Students for a Democratic Society held an convention at Harvard with the expressed purpose of getting Professors Jensen and Herrnstein fired. Fortunately, SDS failed, and the two professors continued to spread their theories far and wide, aided by the prestige of the universities at which they taught.

Unfortunately, the those on the left had established a precedent for suppressing opinions they dislike. Currently Charles Murray, and those who agree with him, are often prevented from speaking at college campuses.

 

[KeithD]

Oh, that is so muddled and constructed on so little. No one is preventing anyone from speaking their mind when they are exercising their right not to listen--particularly at $50,000 a pop (a la paying Donnie Jr. in Florida to peddle his book). Charles Murray and whoever are quite free to express their opinions. No one is obligated to listen to them, though--certainly not to pay them an "exercise your free speech" fee.

This has nothing to do with the exercise of free speech or supporting it--and rotz of ruck getting Liberty University or the 700 club to pay Joan Baez to give them a concert with commentary on the basis of free speech.

You have the concept of freedom of speech mixed up with a concept of obligation to listen and/or obligation to pay to listen. You also are all wet about comparative left/right behavior.

 

[YDB95]

Currently Charles Murray, and those who agree with him, are often prevented from speaking at college campuses.

That's not a matter of "suppressing opinions they dislike". Charles Murray's opinions aren't just racist (though that would be enough in my opinion), they're also based on shoddy science and they don't stand up to scrutiny at all. So why should be be invited to speak at an institution of higher learning?

 

[Schlank]

This should give you some idea as to what a Christian theocracy would look like if the Republicans succeeded in creating one in America.

The Republicans haven't turned this nation into a theocracy yet however, they are already in the early stages of setting things up.

If you pay attention, you may have noticed the "religious freedom" laws they've passed in states like Mississippi. These laws do nothing to enhance freedom, however, they do allow Christians to bully, dehumanize and discriminate against gays, lesbians, transgender people and other people that their religious doctrine tells them to hate.

 

[Schlank]

This assertion by the original poster needed to be documented. I could not find it on the internet:

"Donald Trump tells us that the United States Constitution is a 'really bad thing' and expresses frustration that the Separation of Powers keeps him from acting like a dictator."

Donald Trump has blamed the US constitution for the problems he has encountered during his first 100 days in office.

In an interview with Fox News to mark the milestone, the Republican called the system of checks and balances on power “archaic” and "a really bad thing".

“It’s a very rough system,” he said. “It’s an archaic system … It’s really a bad thing for the country.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...trump-popularity-ratings-barack-a7710781.html

 

[BotanyBoy]

The Republicans haven't turned this nation into a theocracy yet however, they are already in the early stages of setting things up.

If you pay attention, you may have noticed the "religious freedom" laws they've passed in states like Mississippi. These laws do nothing to enhance freedom, however, they do allow Christians to bully, dehumanize and discriminate against gays, lesbians, transgender people and other people that their religious doctrine tells them to hate.

What an absolute lie.

And you go on to immediately verify that.

Being able to follow your religious beliefs, yes including beliefs "progressives" don't like and NOT have the state force you to violate them IS religious freedom. Religious freedom is getting to be a baker and NOT have the government force you to make gay wedding cakes. If you want a giant dick wedding cake go to the gay baker, the Muslim/Christian/Jewish baker shouldn't be forced to do it.

Religious freedom is getting to be a Muslim/Christian/Jewish doctor and not have the government force you to provide abortion services.

People are not owed nor do they have a right to the respect of others.

There is no right to inclusion of all things, nor is there any right to the goods and services of another.

If a private organization or company wants to discriminate they are and or should free to do so. Because freedom n' liberty allow for that.

 

[Dumpington]

magicalmoments writes: "I see the fail grade hasn't stopped dump."

Yeah, about that, professor MagicalMoments - you see, I kind of dropped your class over a month ago. I guess you haven't received the paperwork yet?

The Trouvere writes: "It seems to me that those on the left are most active in limiting political debate."

Very true! Neo-fascist protest hate-groups like Antifa actively try to silence free speech under the guise of combatting hate speech. They attempt to disrupt opposition political rallies in much the same way that Hitler's Brown Shirts once did in pre-Nazi Germany!

Schlank writes: "The Republicans haven't turned this nation into a theocracy yet however, they are already in the early stages of setting things up."

The ONLY world religion respected (and feared) by the modern pro-atheist Democratic Party is ISLAM, Schlank. I would add that most rank-&-file liberals today treat the environment & global warming as their religion. They even have their very own fat, wealthy televangelist in former vice president Al Gore!

"Donald Trump has blamed the US constitution for the problems he has encountered during his first 100 days in office."

And how exactly do YOU feel about the First Amendment, Schlank? And how do you feel about the Second Amendment? And, while we're on the subject, how do you feel about the Electoral College? Many modern "progressive" Democrats openly oppose ALL of these things to some degree. I think it's important for ALL Americans to support our U.S. Constitution, as IT'S what's made our country great!

 

[The_Trouvere]

Oh, that is so muddled and constructed on so little. No one is preventing anyone from speaking their mind when they are exercising their right not to listen--particularly at $50,000 a pop (a la paying Donnie Jr. in Florida to peddle his book). Charles Murray and whoever are quite free to express their opinions. No one is obligated to listen to them, though--certainly not to pay them an "exercise your free speech" fee.

This has nothing to do with the exercise of free speech or supporting it--and rotz of ruck getting Liberty University or the 700 club to pay Joan Baez to give them a concert with commentary on the basis of free speech.

You have the concept of freedom of speech mixed up with a concept of obligation to listen and/or obligation to pay to listen. You also are all wet about comparative left/right behavior.

No one is forced to listen to Charles Murray and people who agree with him. Many times they are prevented from listening to them.

 

[The_Trouvere]

That's not a matter of "suppressing opinions they dislike". Charles Murray's opinions aren't just racist (though that would be enough in my opinion), they're also based on shoddy science and they don't stand up to scrutiny at all. So why should be be invited to speak at an institution of higher learning?

Charles Murray's assertions have been verified by the failure of Head Start and No Child Left Behind.

How have his assertions failed to stand up to scrutiny?

 

[KeithD]

No one is forced to listen to Charles Murray and people who agree with him. Many times they are prevented from listening to them.

No one is prevented from seeking Charles Murray out and listening to him on their own dime. And Charles Murray is free to speak his mind, as are those free not to pay him to listen to him or to give him a platform. And it applies as much on the right as the left. So, I repeat, your post was riddled with limited, selective examples and partisan crap.

 

[YDB95]

What an absolute lie.

And you go on to immediately verify that.

Being able to follow your religious beliefs, yes including beliefs "progressives" don't like and NOT have the state force you to violate them IS religious freedom. Religious freedom is getting to be a baker and NOT have the government force you to make gay wedding cakes. If you want a giant dick wedding cake go to the gay baker, the Muslim/Christian/Jewish baker shouldn't be forced to do it.

Your rights end where theirs begin. Besides that, the logic you're using here is exactly the logic that was used to rationalise racial segregation. If your religious convictions get in the way of doing your job, you should find another job. Not to mention Christ never said one word against homosexuality.

Charles Murray's assertions have been verified by the failure of Head Start and No Child Left Behind.

How have his assertions failed to stand up to scrutiny?

Read any scholarly article about The Bell Curve. I'm sure there are several you can find with a five minute google search.

 

[The_Trouvere]

Read any scholarly article about The Bell Curve. I'm sure there are several you can find with a five minute google search.

No one has ever refuted The Bell Curve. Anyone who has taught in public school knows that some students learn faster and with less effort than others. He learns that what the fast learners can learn the slow learners cannot learn, regardless of effort. He learns that Orientals tend to be more intelligent than whites who tend to be more intelligent than Negroes.

 

[YDB95]

No one has ever refuted The Bell Curve.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/1997/01/the-bell-curve-flattened.html
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=225294
https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691028989/inequality-by-design
https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/262014
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~chance/course/topics/curveball.html

 

[The_Trouvere]

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/1997/01/the-bell-curve-flattened.html
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=225294
https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691028989/inequality-by-design
https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/262014
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~chance/course/topics/curveball.html

Instead of throwing that at me, read it yourself and explain it to me in your own words. If you cannot do that you do not understand it yourself.

The Bell Curve makes three assertions. First, intelligence is the most important factor in determining academic and economic success, as well as other favorable outcomes in life. Second, it is primarily determined by genes. Third, people of some races tend to be more intelligent than people of other races.

You do not need to read The Bell Curve to know that all of that is true. Just consider the people you have known during your life, and think about what has happened to them.