Schumer's disrespectful behavior extends gov't shutdown

[10NadNuder]

It would spoil the view of the scenery.

The view on the southern border, not so much.

I for one could not care less what the view on either border looks like as long as the view of people from any other country (even those on other continents) is that this idiot is the leader of the country I am from (& currently in).

 

[sharingfantasies]

It would spoil the view of the scenery.

The view on the southern border, not so much.

There is plenty of beautiful scenery along the southern border.

https://listosaur.com/travel/10-scenic-sites-along-u-s-mexican-border/

40 percent of lands along the southern U.S. border are federally designated as National Forests, National Parks, National Monuments, National Wildlife Refuges, and Tribal reserves.

Then there are the animals and plants that live along the border. Southeastern Arizona — at the intersection of the Rocky Mountains and Sierra Madre, the Sonoran and Chihuahuan deserts — is one of the country’s most biodiverse places. Since Coronado’s creation in 1941, biologists have found more than 900 species of plants and vertebrates in these seven square miles alone.

 

[Tigersman]

On this you are full of shit. 70% +/- of the citizens of the US want a wall of one sort or another. We're tired of the invasion by the uneducated, unskilled, and unhealthy cockroaches.

Anyone who wants a wall is plain crazy. The illegals have already shown they can go over a wall and the drug cartel has proven they can tunnel underneath any wall. Soon they will be cutting through the metal wall.

 

[10NadNuder]

Anyone who wants a wall is plain crazy. The illegals have already shown they can go over a wall and the drug cartel has proven they can tunnel underneath any wall. Soon they will be cutting through the metal wall.

I forget how long ago I saw a report on CNN (believe it was even before Obama) where they followed tunnel between Mexico & SW States.

Regardless, statement about them "cutting through... wall" implies there will be one. I doubt Trump's Presidency (regardless of when/how it ends) will do so with a complete wall on any landlocked border.

 

[Emerson40]

Anyone who thinks spending billions to build a wall along roughly 20% of the US perimeter, along a section that already has border security (that could use some bolstering, sure), and thinks this will make an impact on illegal immigration, smuggling of arms / drugs / people / etc, is a complete and utter idiot.

It was idiotic when Trump promised it during his campaigning.

It was idiotic that anyone believed it then, and even more so now.

Any idiot who thinks otherwise probably also has no issue with it being the third government shutdown in a year, and thinks the half-wit Trump is doing a good job.


Sad, the gullible lot that accept mediocrity, lies, and stupidity in their leadership.

Some of you deserve better.....most of you don’t.


https://66.media.tumblr.com/ac6c3bd763ba99a211d462cb34921aa2/tumblr_ohakixJDDR1qzofaho1_540.jpg

 

[10NadNuder]

Anyone who thinks spending billions to build a wall along roughly 20% of the US perimeter, along a section that already has border security (that could use some bolstering, sure), and thinks this will make an impact on illegal immigration, smuggling of arms / drugs / people / etc, is a complete and utter idiot.

It was idiotic when Trump promised it during his campaigning.

It was idiotic that anyone believed it then, and even more so now.

Any idiot who thinks otherwise probably also has no issue with it being the third government shutdown in a year, and thinks the half-wit Trump is doing a good job.

I posted on FaceBook recently there was a government shutdown on TV that included Trump before he was President... It was on a fictional show that largely took place in DC called "BrainDead".

Part of me wonders if it's where Dumb Donny got the idea.

 

[bellisarius]

Anyone who wants a wall is plain crazy. The illegals have already shown they can go over a wall and the drug cartel has proven they can tunnel underneath any wall. Soon they will be cutting through the metal wall.

You obviously don't know how 'walls' work. There is no plan to build a wall along the entire length of the Southern border. In fact there are large tracts where no wall would even be necessary. Gaps in the wall work to our advantage. They tend to funnel the hoards into specific and identifiable places, places where enforcement can be concentrated. Further the wall doesn't have to be 100% effective to serve the goal. even 75% would be far better than what we have today, which is next to nothing.

And while it is true that any wall can be scaled, the question is, "at what cost?" A wall of 20' or more would be beyond the physical capabilities of all but the most fit.

Castle and city walls worked in the past, as did many of the fortifications of recent construction. Those cities and castles that did fall fell to siege tactics, not by having the walls physically breached and I doubt siege tactics would work in this application. What are the besiegers going to do, threaten to starve themselves to death? And I somehow doubt that the Mexican army is going to mount an invasion.

Right now we're like a football team without an offensive line wondering why we're getting our asses kicked.

 

[10NadNuder]

There is no plan to build a wall along the entire length of the Southern border. In fact there are large tracts where no wall would even be necessary. Gaps in the wall work to our advantage. They tend to funnel the hoards into specific and identifiable places, places where enforcement can be concentrated. Further the wall doesn't have to be 100% effective to serve the goal. even 75% would be far better than what we have today, which is next to nothing.

"...There are large tracts where no wall would even be necessary", b/c the people coming are for the most part not people who (regardless of their immigration attempts) would be doing anything illegal once they got here. (In fact, judges in Seattle & who knows where else have found against Trump's bans. Add his University that wasn't, & he's more of an anti-law/legal person than many of those he wants to keep out!

 

[phrodeau]

I think he means “hordes.”

And I’m pretty sure that a person traveling 1000 miles on foot is fit enough to climb a wall.

 

[HisArpy]

Anyone who wants a wall is plain crazy. The illegals have already shown they can go over a wall and the drug cartel has proven they can tunnel underneath any wall. Soon they will be cutting through the metal wall.

You start with an invalid premise and then go on to say ignorant things to try and justify your premise.

Google Egypt's "wall" and find out if their drug smuggling/illegal immigration problems were or weren't "solved" for the most part.

Walls work. The fake D narrative that they don't is just that; a fake D narrative.

 

[HisArpy]

Alrighty then. Let's go through it.



We already talked about the Israeli border defense. I got the cost very wrong, but it's not a wall, it's an entire defensive system. I'm pretty sure Hungary is the same.

I hate to be a logomach, but you keep using the word "wall," so I keep hearing you are pushing for Trump's vision of, well, a thirty foot wall, now presently proposed to be comprised of steel pikes, running across the entire US-Mexico border. That's what I think is a bullshit waste of money. If you are meaning something other than that, please let me know.

Because, as you intimate, there is already a system of patrolled barriers on the US-Mexico border. Wikipedia says the barriers cover 580 miles of the over 1900 miles that comprise the border, mostly in Nex Mexico, Arizona, and California.

Can you agree on that?

There are barriers in urban areas of San Diego and El Paso area. (I've been to El Paso at the start of the 21st Century.)

These existing barriers have been effective, in that they funneled most border crossers into unpopulated regions of the Soronan dessert.

Can you agree on that?



I keep asking you to tell me what your conditions are like and you refuse to answer.

If I don't care, why do I ask?

See, as I understand it, strategic barrier placement coupled with patrols and drones would be more efficient and effective than lining the entire US-Mexico border, most of which is a river, with 30 foot high steel pikes. Am I wrong?

Please educate me, and stop projecting your own intractability onto me.

So, first of all you admit you got the cost wrong. Ok, easy mistake to make in this day/age of disinformation. Yet, it highlights the fact that there might be other things you're getting wrong too.

The construction of "the wall" you envision is also wrong. Yes, in the early days, Trump did propose a concrete structure the whole length of the border. He admits that he changed his mind after learning more about the terrain and the needs of the CPB. Yet, somehow that information, even though it's widely disseminated, escaped you. Which points out that you're even more wrongly or poorly informed than just being mistaken on the price of Israel's wall.

You're pretty good with the "wall's don't work" thing, yet in the post quoted above, you admit walls are effective. Your narrative is falling apart at this point because it's internally inconsistent and based on admitted incorrect facts.

You want educated? Ok, Israel's wall cost 600 million to build 600 miles of fencing including control towers. That's approx 1/4 of the US Southern border length. For 4x the same money we "should" be able to fence the entire border. We can't because you have to allow for the difference in construction costs based on cost of living as well as terrain complications. Which is why the US wall will cost more.

It doesn't have to be a solid physical barrier., It only has to cut off the crossing routes and funnel everyone trying to get around it into choke points where they can be apprehended. This is the current proposal and the D's are willing to fund the technology part but not the physical part that makes the tech effective. Why?

It should also cross areas where it is so dangerous to cross that people die.

Imagine that, the wall might actually save lives.

Visa overstays are a problem. But, if CPB and ICE aren't running around chasing illegal immigrants in sanctuary cities, they could be concentrating on visa overstays. Which would cut down on them.

There are other things that can be done. Israel enacted several laws which disincentivized illegal immigration by making it tougher to get money out of the country, bring other family members in, and employer based restrictions on pay whereby the immigrant was financially rewarded for leaving. (It will be interesting to see if there's a way immigrants find to manipulate these laws so that the escrow accounts for illegal immigrant pay withholding can be used as a retirement account of some type.)

In the end, your position in untenable given the facts and intent of what's wanted by the administration. Will a wall be enough by itself? Probably not. But without a wall in place, anything else which is attempted will not succeed or even slow down the flow. By advocating against a wall, you're actually encouraging illegal immigration. Which seems kind of odd.

 

[Luk]

Sarah Sanders just said over 4,000 terrorists were arrested coming across the Southern Border last year.

Sarah Sanders is a liar's fool.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

You start with an invalid premise and then go on to say ignorant things to try and justify your premise.

Google Egypt's "wall" and find out if their drug smuggling/illegal immigration problems were or weren't "solved" for the most part.

Walls work. The fake D narrative that they don't is just that; a fake D narrative.

LOL!

Walls don't even work in mythology.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTHDeET7tAFcQvyp4iRT0MXoXhgZ3SnHu9KI08aI0WlOvC03Lay

 

[Que]

Anyone who thinks spending billions to build a wall along roughly 20% of the US perimeter, along a section that already has border security (that could use some bolstering, sure), and thinks this will make an impact on illegal immigration, smuggling of arms / drugs / people / etc, is a complete and utter idiot.

It was idiotic when Trump promised it during his campaigning.

It was idiotic that anyone believed it then, and even more so now.

Any idiot who thinks otherwise probably also has no issue with it being the third government shutdown in a year, and thinks the half-wit Trump is doing a good job.


Sad, the gullible lot that accept mediocrity, lies, and stupidity in their leadership.

Some of you deserve better.....most of you don’t.


https://66.media.tumblr.com/ac6c3bd763ba99a211d462cb34921aa2/tumblr_ohakixJDDR1qzofaho1_540.jpg

That sounds like you feel like you're very informed on this issue. Spent a lot of time in the Sonoran Desert have you?

I have and I've got a pretty good idea which areas would benefit the most from physical barriers, which area is it you don't really need it because there's absolutely no where to hide once you do cross the border for a quite a distance, and which area is you definitely don't need it because it's either physically impossible or fairly impractical because of the difficulty of the terrain.

I do know what it's like to hike in the Sonoran Desert I do know how long it takes to get through different types of terrain and different types of vegetation. I know how much water you have got to carry to be able to do that.

I'm not prepared to make the kind of grand pronouncement that you seem so confident to me but I can tell you for certain that doing absolutely nothing is the very best path to ensure a continuous stream of democrat voters. Which is the only reason that the Democrats have suddenly decided that they don't like wasting government funds.

 

[Luk]

That sounds like you feel like you're very informed on this issue. Spent a lot of time in the Sonoran Desert have you?

I have and I've got a pretty good idea which areas would benefit the most from fencing and which area is it you don't really need it and which area is you definitely don't need it.

I do know what it's like to hike in the Sonoran Desert I do know how long it takes to get through different types of terrain and different types of vegetation. I know how much water you got to carry to be able to do that.

I'm not prepared to make the kind of grand pronouncement that you seem so confident to me but I can tell you for certain that doing absolutely nothing is the very best path to ensure a continuous stream of democrat voters. Which is the only reason that the Democrats have suddenly decided that they don't like wasting government funds.

How many times have you crossed the Sonoran? Same amount as Em?

 

[phrodeau]

Que knows intimately how much heat exhaustion leads to brain damage.

 

[Shagly]

That sounds like you feel like you're very informed on this issue. Spent a lot of time in the Sonoran Desert have you?

I have and I've got a pretty good idea which areas would benefit the most from physical barriers, which area is it you don't really need it because there's absolutely no where to hide once you do cross the border for a quite a distance, and which area is you definitely don't need it because it's either physically impossible or fairly impractical because of the difficulty of the terrain.

I do know what it's like to hike in the Sonoran Desert I do know how long it takes to get through different types of terrain and different types of vegetation. I know how much water you have got to carry to be able to do that.

I'm not prepared to make the kind of grand pronouncement that you seem so confident to me but I can tell you for certain that doing absolutely nothing is the very best path to ensure a continuous stream of democrat voters. Which is the only reason that the Democrats have suddenly decided that they don't like wasting government funds.

I can hardly wait to see how many more tariffs he creates in 2019.

 

[Que]

Que knows intimately how much heat exhaustion leads to brain damage.

No, what I know is that heat exhaustion leads to heat stroke and subsequently, heat stroke can lead in rare instances to brain damage. Your core temperature has to get above 105 for a an extended period of time. Heat stroke can impair your body's ability to regulate temperature in the future so there can be some long-term consequences.

Since I was well-trained in desert survival, I never suffered heat exhaustion, much less heat stroke.

Dehydration is the biggest danger and most frequent cause of death for those lost in the desert.
Temperature related death is actually more likely to be from hypothermia than hyperthermia because the desert gets very frigid at night and people are generally not prepared for that. Minimal shade and adequate water will enable someone to survive the desert up to 130 degrees.

I appreciate your concern. If Democrats had actually any compassion they would definitely want the wall if for no other reason is that it would funnel illegal immigrants into areas where they could be rescued prior to dying a pretty horrible death. Democrats don't care though because they know that Mexico will still continue to create more potential Democrat voters and as long as enough of them get through to bolster Democrat registrations, who cares how many die ihave n the desert.

 

[Que]

I can hardly wait to see how many more tariffs he creates in 2019.

All currently proposed tarrifs if enacted and carried out would result in a net loss to the Chinese economy of .6%.

That's 6/1000ths of the Chinese economy.

 

[Kirkrapine]

I want a wall.
My neighbors want a wall. Any direction you pick to find a neighbor.

Alas....we are but nobodies.

What would a wall accomplish that a fence wouldn't?

 

[Luk]

No, what I know is that heat exhaustion leads to heat stroke and subsequently, heat stroke can lead in rare instances to brain damage. Your core temperature has to get above 105 for a an extended period of time. Heat stroke can impair your body's ability to regulate temperature in the future so there can be some long-term consequences.

Since I was well-trained in desert survival, I never suffered heat exhaustion, much less heat stroke.

Dehydration is the biggest danger and most frequent cause of death for those lost in the desert.
Temperature related death is actually more likely to be from hypothermia than hyperthermia because the desert gets very frigid at night and people are generally not prepared for that. Minimal shade and adequate water will enable someone to survive the desert up to 130 degrees.

I appreciate your concern. If Democrats had actually any compassion they would definitely want the wall if for no other reason is that it would funnel illegal immigrants into areas where they could be rescued prior to dying a pretty horrible death. Democrats don't care though because they know that Mexico will still continue to create more potential Democrat voters and as long as enough of them get through to bolster Democrat registrations, who cares how many die ihave n the desert.

Lawlz

 

[Oblimo]

So, first of all you admit you got the cost wrong. Ok, easy mistake to make in this day/age of disinformation. Yet, it highlights the fact that there might be other things you're getting wrong too.

I thinking owning up to mistakes, clarifying my thoughts and perceptions, and asking for confirmination whether or not I'm right are virtues that lead me to better understanding, not evidence that I'm wrong. WTF is wrong with you?

The construction of "the wall" you envision is also wrong. Yes, in the early days, Trump did propose a concrete structure the whole length of the border. He admits that he changed his mind after learning more about the terrain and the needs of the CPB. Yet, somehow that information, even though it's widely disseminated, escaped you.

Once again, you don't read my post or ignore the parts you don't like. As I said, he is now apparently proposing a series of 30 foot steel pikes. Is that correct?

Which points out that you're even more wrongly or poorly informed than just being mistaken on the price of Israel's wall.

What a monumental douchebag to you are. Am I wrong about the steel pikes?

You're pretty good with the "wall's don't work" thing, yet in the post quoted above, you admit walls are effective. Your narrative is falling apart at this point because it's internally inconsistent and based on admitted incorrect facts.

You just can't handle the fact that someone admitted they were wrong and is now trying to adjust their POV. You see that as internal inconsistency. That makes you a monumental douche bag. (But "walls," if I understand what Trump means when he says that word, don't work.)

You want educated? Ok, Israel's wall

Let me stop you right there.

I am beginning to see a language issue.

You and Klinkster keep saying "Israel's wall." Are you using the term "wall" literally, like a 30' high series of steel pikes, or are you using it as a umbrella term to describe Israel's border system?

And which Israeli border defense are you talking about? There's more than one, you know.

There's the Israel-Egypt barrier

It's about 152 miles long.

The fence has two layers of fencing, one with barbed wire. The structure includes the installation of advanced surveillance equipment. The estimated cost of the project is NIS1.6 billion ($450 million). The project was completed in December 2013.

And then the Israel-Gaza barrier. It's story is a lot more complicated, having been torn down and then rebuilt, and the fact that it's effectively in the middle of a war zone.

And the there's the Israel-West Bank barrier

Total length of 440 miles

About 90–95% of the barrier will be constructed as a "multi-layered fence system" with the IDF's preferred design having three fences, pyramid-shaped stacks of barbed wire on the two outer fences, a lighter-weight fence with intrusion detection equipment in the middle, an anti-vehicle ditch, patrol roads on both sides, and a smooth strip of sand for "intrusion tracking".

The barrier contains an on-average 60-metre (200 ft) wide exclusion area.[29] The width of some sections is larger (up to 100 metres (330 ft)) due to topographic conditions. The width of some sections (about 6% of the barrier) is 3 metres (9.8 ft) where the barrier is constructed as a concrete wall up to 8 metres (26 ft) high. These sections are narrower, require less land, and provide more protection against snipers. Wall construction is more common in urban settings.

So when you say,

Ok, Israel's wall cost 600 million to build 600 miles of fencing including control towers. That's approx 1/4 of the US Southern border length.

What real-world things are you talking about?

It doesn't have to be a solid physical barrier.

What is Trump's actual proposal? What is he actually asking for? As far as I can tell, it's the steel pikes across the entire US-Mexico border. Can you correct me?

Or does he just have a vision of a big beautiful wall that no one in his admin has actually fleshed out yet and is looking to throw $5 billion at somebody?

 

[Emerson40]

That sounds like you feel like you're very informed on this issue. Spent a lot of time in the Sonoran Desert have you?

I have and I've got a pretty good idea which areas would benefit the most from physical barriers, which area is it you don't really need it because there's absolutely no where to hide once you do cross the border for a quite a distance, and which area is you definitely don't need it because it's either physically impossible or fairly impractical because of the difficulty of the terrain.

I do know what it's like to hike in the Sonoran Desert I do know how long it takes to get through different types of terrain and different types of vegetation. I know how much water you have got to carry to be able to do that.

I'm not prepared to make the kind of grand pronouncement that you seem so confident to me but I can tell you for certain that doing absolutely nothing is the very best path to ensure a continuous stream of democrat voters. Which is the only reason that the Democrats have suddenly decided that they don't like wasting government funds.

You know, some days I'm not sure how to take your posts, but it is posts like this that ensure I never take your posts seriously. Sonoran Desert...oh my.

If you and your fellow, partisan Trump supporters want folks in the real world to take this wall business seriously and believe it is about illegal immigration, you would be addressing all the issues surrounding illegal immigration, and not focusing on a silly wall, or keep trying to make this a R vs D thing.

Get outta the desert and look at a map of the entire US.


https://66.media.tumblr.com/26df999971089caa0bfa1ca17d5d7076/tumblr_pklzbwUinw1r8bj13o1_1280.jpg


There is more illegal immigration coming from other ports of entry, by land, sea and air, than what scampers across the Mexican / US border.

For example, estimates will vary (depending on source) from 1/3 to 1/2 of annual illegal immigration, but it's safe to say a substantial number of unauthorized immigrants do not enter the US illegally at all, but arrive lawfully in the US and then overstay their temporary and work visas, and remain in the country.

Others arrive through traditional ports of entry and use fraudulent documentation, or valid documents that belong to someone else.

If we step away from these out-in-the-open inflows of illegals and take a peek at the underbelly stuff, you have to take into account stowaways in maritime shipping containers and commercial trucks, those that hide in vehicles at land crossings, or step of boats at sea ports and simply walk across along the thousands and thousands of miles of potential entry points.

Taking just that into consideration, instead of throwing vast amounts of money into a wall, a better ROI in the US illegal immigration problems would be investing some of those $$ in resources like people, training, surveillance, and technology, to protect US ports of entry and the gaps in between, and process migrants and refugees.

But it's hard to capture that in a sweet, succinct soundbite, like 'I'm going to build a wall and Mexico will pay for it", that will rally the right-wing tribe against the left-wingers.


You go do your walkabouts in the desert. Stay hydrated, and don't forget to wear your MAGA hat to keep the sun off your head.

 

[phrodeau]

Trump explained in his stand-up act today, that the wall would be steel instead of concrete, because the steel industry is so strong in America now, and because you can see through steel.

Sounds like he's hoping to get a few kickbacks from the steel makers.

Of course, steel is bendable, while concrete isn't. Steel slats will be as easy to fold over as Trump cabinet members.

 

[Luk]

A steel wall would work as long as there aren't any Harbor Freights in Mexico.