Poly...When 3 is not a Crowd.

[tolyk]

I didn’t think my silly humour would be appreciated So left it alone but you opened that door wiiiiiiide.

Silly humour is always appreciated! Especially with the correct spelling

 

[LostGirlTink]

I was reading something last night when I couldn't sleep and I'm interested in discussing this if someone else is.

The existence of cheaters contributes to the social stigma against the non-monogamous and makes it harder for those who are in poly relationships to be open

I'd love to hear your thoughts, whether you are reading this thread as someone interested in this dynamic for yourself or just as someone who is interested in hearing about it.

 

[inkandiridiumnibs]

The existence of cheaters contributes to the social stigma against the non-monogamous and makes it harder for those who are in poly relationships to be open

I would have to agree. It undermines the trust aspect to a very damaging level. I think it also feeds the illusion that Poly relationships are open ended with no limits. I also feel that Cheaters give people the imression that Poly people are lying about their feelings, using "Poly" as a means to cheat without reprecussions.

It is even worse when you witness just such behavior. A man claiming he is "Poly" to justify having sexual affairs yet, avoids having sex with his wife. That is wrong, that isn't Poly at all, that is a selfish man doing his wife a diservice.

Then there is also a false stigma when a core dynamic of a Poly relationship changes. Say in the reality, a husband and wife have come to realize after a decade and a half that they are better roomates than they are married. They chose to divorce and move on. Now the third member of their relationship is invited to marry because they are staying on. From outside view, it will always look like the third broke up the marriage, even when that isn't the case at all.

"People" want to believe the worst before they will believe the truth. An aspect I have run into I just want to scream.

 

[Erotically_Yours]

I was reading something last night when I couldn't sleep and I'm interested in discussing this if someone else is.

The existence of cheaters contributes to the social stigma against the non-monogamous and makes it harder for those who are in poly relationships to be open

I'd love to hear your thoughts, whether you are reading this thread as someone interested in this dynamic for yourself or just as someone who is interested in hearing about it.

People have different views as to what cheating is, much like people have different views on love. Many outsiders view a poly relationship as someone "cheating" on their spouse with a third, and the one being "cheated" on is viewed as weak, abused, etc when that couldn't be further from the case. Many also have the view that it is impossible to truly love more than one person, and to go beyond that is just "lust".

Cheating, to me, is defined by however YOU yourself define it. No one else. It is your responsibility to make your demands, expectations, and boundaries clear to your partner(s). As someone who's open marriage of 16 years came to an end due to cheating, I cannot express that enough.

I would have to agree. It undermines the trust aspect to a very damaging level. I think it also feeds the illusion that Poly relationships are open ended with no limits. I also feel that Cheaters give people the imression that Poly people are lying about their feelings, using "Poly" as a means to cheat without reprecussions.

This. Especially the bolded part. Just because I was okay with my husband having sex with someone else, does not mean I was okay with him having sex with someone else behind my back. I made it clear for literally years, "If you cheat on me, I'll fuck you up!" and that's exactly what happened when I caught him. I am, if nothing else, a person who keeps their promises.

 

[navytime09]

We need more discussion threads...

Haters are gonna hate, cheaters are gonna cheat. The type of relationship doesn't lesson the pain of having your trust betrayed. There are hundreds of stigmas as to why poly people are being selfish or delusional or emotionally broken but cheating, IMO is way down on that list. Now I'm not saying that cheating is something that can't have a significant impact on an open or poly relationship but to say that it would effect it more or less just isn't true. ... With that said though (thinking while I'm typing) maybe the aspect of emotional cheating is something that should be looked at. Women in uniform are unfairly treated all the time by wives and girlfriends who are far more fearful about the 'emotional cheating' than the physical. That friendship bond is something hard to wrap your head around and the amount of time spent together scares the crap out of a lot of SO.

Also, someone mentioned the lack of sex discussion a couple of days ago that made me think a lot. The wife brought it up too when she saw my post, she made fun of me for talking about kitchen time as opposed to bed room time. It sounds pretty lame when you type it out but this thing is about the relationship with other people, sharing yourself and finding happiness when the people you love are happy. The sex is just a bonus, a wonderful bonus but a bonus all the same. If it were only or even mainly about the sex we'd be swingers. The best thing I could come up with was comparing it to a birthday party. You go to spend time with people you care about not just to eat cake. You laugh and play and joke and give, and when it's time for cake the party stops and that's the focus at that time. But it is far from the most important part. Plus, is there really a thing as a bad cake? There might be flavors you aren't that fond of but it's cake!

 

[bunny4med]

Poly by definition means to love more than one person. It does mean swinging. Swinging is a sexual encounter with love not being involved. Poly is not an open relationship.
Our relationship is the three of us and only the three of us. We are committed to each other, honest with each other, and love only each other. If there is another person involved, then that is and will be the end of the relationship.

 

[ExiledWelshman]

I was reading something last night when I couldn't sleep and I'm interested in discussing this if someone else is.

The existence of cheaters contributes to the social stigma against the non-monogamous and makes it harder for those who are in poly relationships to be open

I'd love to hear your thoughts, whether you are reading this thread as someone interested in this dynamic for yourself or just as someone who is interested in hearing about it.

Maybe...

As I said to you the other day Tink, I don't "get" the poly thing, but if it works for people then go for it!

But I think society...convention...the automatic assumption is that someone is getting a bum deal, while another person is having a lovely old time! And I guess that plays into why it would make poly relationships less...not acceptable, that's not the right word...normal. If that makes sense.

I've never been exposed to a poly relationship in any sense, nobody I know have ever been a partner in one. So my knowledge is pretty limited. Maybe, before reading this thread, I might have thought the same as above, but after reading what you, Tol and Pixie have had to say, it's kind of opened my eyes a bit. Not enough to want to be in a poly relationship, but enough to understand that if there is a deep level of understanding between all the partners, it can work.

 

[navytime09]

Something I found online, not trying to high jack such a wonderful thread. I thought you guys might like.

... the language of non-monogamy is rather beautifully alive and undecided at the moment. If a definition is a description of how a word is being used, then polyamory perhaps most stridently defies easy definition. We know it when we see it. We certainly know it when we are doing it. But ask 100 poly-people to define polyamory and you will get 100 slightly unique, finely nuanced answers. This isn’t a defect. All it really means is that we are rather democratically in the process of generating new culture, so you may as well appreciate the moment for what it is and trying to be before boxing it up for the sake of inflexible convenience.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bb/c5/c5/bbc5c5836cd5433b10d4346efb87b0bd.jpg

 

[LostGirlTink]

Something I found online, not trying to high jack such a wonderful thread. I thought you guys

^^^ I like charts

 

[Dribble]

Way too complicated for my little brain. Live like there is no tomorrow... cause there may not be

 

[LostGirlTink]

Navy brought up sex.
This seems like a good idea to talk about it.

I found this in my reading....
"As a mono, one chief aspect that I had to come to grips with, which goes against society and how it views relationships, is that sex is not proprietary. Our bodies are our own to do with as we choose. If we choose to be solo, poly or have multiple partners then that is okay."

I'm interested in hearing others thoughts on that.

Obviously what we do with our own bodies is ok, but that's an interesting assessment in my mind.

Definition of proprietary
1 : of, relating to, or characteristic of an owner or title holder proprietary rights
2 : used, made, or marketed by one having the exclusive legal right a proprietary process proprietary software
3 : privately owned and managed and run as a profit-making organization a proprietary clinic

Sex as something proprietary.
Sex as something inherently exclusive
I've had conversations with people who have used the phrase "It's just sex" and it's different than how I view it, because to me sex isn't never "just sex"
YMMV

So I'm curious to hear a discussion on this.

 

[Dribble]

I don't like the word proprietary for some reason...it gave me a chill. I know what they are saying...but if I choose to be monogamous, the term proprietary/non-proprietary rubs me wrong when referring to sex. Probably cause sex is never just sex to me anymore.

People have needs. If I can't fill the needs of someone I love, then of course I want her to being allowed to find it elsewhere. But I should be given an opportunity to see if I can fill those needs first. Else...we didn't have the relationship I thought we had.

Here is the difference I see, it is what happens when a person honestly loves two people. Is sex still a need? Love...you can't help it. And what is the most intimate way someone can think of to show your love? The boundaries blur. The sex is no longer a need, cause you have that already, but it becomes a demonstration of love.

I really should stay out of threads like this.

 

[LostGirlTink]

I really should stay out of threads like this.

Why?
Also I'm curious, you said a few things there that I find interesting,
that you can't help if you love someone.
Do you think that's true? And if you do love someone, isn't sex a need to be able to express those feelings or... no?

 

[Dribble]

Why?
Also I'm curious, you said a few things there that I find interesting,
that you can't help if you love someone.
Do you think that's true? And if you do love someone, isn't sex a need to be able to express those feelings or... no?

I am not in a good space...I need a beach to walk along today, and it is 1200 miles away.

No...I am a firm believer that love is. I can't help it. I can't control it. I can deny it all I want, and yet it still exists. Love is complicated and it shouldn't be.

Is sex a need? I don't know...maybe...maybe not. I think love is the need. Sex is the expression. A giving. Ask me tomorrow and I will probably give you a very different answer. My brain feels in pieces today. Really hard to sort through the mess.

 

[Erotic69er]

We are all made differently.

I’ve always been polyamorous but finding the right lovers to enjoy a beautiful ménage a trois is elusive.
When you do it’s beautiful and often breathtaking when your entwined in love and lust.

 

[Erotically_Yours]

Why?
Also I'm curious, you said a few things there that I find interesting,
that you can't help if you love someone.
Do you think that's true? And if you do love someone, isn't sex a need to be able to express those feelings or... no?

Love and sex aren't mutually exclusive. People have sex for dozens of reasons that don't include love. Fame, monetary gain, status, promotions, procreation, revenge, hatred, alleviate boredom, addiction; the list goes on and on and on.

There are also plenty of loving, romantic relationships that aren't sexual. In those instances, sex isn't a need at all. They express their love through other means. Sex may be the end-all, be-all expression of love to some, but not so much to others.

My take; I think it's important to differentiate "falling in love" from "initial attraction". What I think Dribble is speaking of falls under initial attraction. Each of our brains is hardwired to be attracted to certain things and they differ from person to person. There are also secondary sex characteristics like pheromones. These are the things that cannot be controlled.

Once initial attraction occurs, "falling in love" is a matter of pursuing that attraction. That part is a choice. At least, that's how I see things. YMMV.

 

[LostGirlTink]

I'm so intrigued at the way so many people think completely differently. It's fascinating to me.

 

[LostGirlTink]

I found this interesting and thought some of you might want to read it too.
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_...etlnkushpmg00000067&__twitter_impression=true

 

[inkandiridiumnibs]

There are also plenty of loving, romantic relationships that aren't sexual. In those instances, sex isn't a need at all.

That is how one of the Poly relationships I know is. One of the members is very Asexual, she gets her happiness from just spending time with the others individually, much more than she does as the group. She doesn't participate in sex at all either. (Her reasons are hers alone and I will not discuss them.)

 

[Erotically_Yours]

I found this interesting and thought some of you might want to read it too.
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_...etlnkushpmg00000067&__twitter_impression=true

An interesting read that essentially echoes what's been said here. Though it does bring up a point that hasn't been discussed yet; children. My relationships with other women rarely got very serious to the point they wanted to commit to an actual relationship. I wanted them to, but most never really got there. There were a few instances that did, and another few that scared themselves away. But once I had my daughter, it became a major roadblock for any woman I became intimate with. They would make it quite clear from the onset that it was strictly sex and maybe friendship. Which honestly, was fine by me. If you want to love me and be in a serious relationship with me, you must also love my daughter. Putting myself in their shoes, I can see that as a huge undertaking without adding in the fact I was married to a man too.

 

[Erotic69er]

I can see how that limited a relationship.

An interesting read that essentially echoes what's been said here. Though it does bring up a point that hasn't been discussed yet; children. My relationships with other women rarely got very serious to the point they wanted to commit to an actual relationship. I wanted them to, but most never really got there. There were a few instances that did, and another few that scared themselves away. But once I had my daughter, it became a major roadblock for any woman I became intimate with. They would make it quite clear from the onset that it was strictly sex and maybe friendship. Which honestly, was fine by me. If you want to love me and be in a serious relationship with me, you must also love my daughter. Putting myself in their shoes, I can see that as a huge undertaking without adding in the fact I was married to a man too.

Children can complicate the essence of a ménage a trois where three adults want to enjoy a romantic relationship with one another.
For me it has been an open relationship where everyone genuinely likes and adores one another but the essense of a loving relationship has remained between two people rather than three.

 

[LostGirlTink]

An interesting read that essentially echoes what's been said here. Though it does bring up a point that hasn't been discussed yet; children. My relationships with other women rarely got very serious to the point they wanted to commit to an actual relationship. I wanted them to, but most never really got there. There were a few instances that did, and another few that scared themselves away. But once I had my daughter, it became a major roadblock for any woman I became intimate with. They would make it quite clear from the onset that it was strictly sex and maybe friendship. Which honestly, was fine by me. If you want to love me and be in a serious relationship with me, you must also love my daughter. Putting myself in their shoes, I can see that as a huge undertaking without adding in the fact I was married to a man too.

So would that be more of an open relationship than a polyamorous relationship then?
The key factor in polyamory seems to be that it’s not just casual or physical but crosses the bridge into relationship status

Children can complicate the essence of a ménage a trois where three adults want to enjoy a romantic relationship with one another.
For me it has been an open relationship where everyone genuinely likes and adores one another but the essense of a loving relationship has remained between two people rather than three.

Children complicate all relationships, this isn’t specific to poly.

I finished a really good book on the subject of poly... I’ve actually read this one twice. It’s called “More than Two”
I’d encourage anyone that’s in a relationship with ANYONE, monogamous, poly, dating, married etc.

Obviously not all will apply to everyone but the chapters on communication alone are worth the $10 for the kindle edition

 

[Tenderkiss]

What do you do when you have come to understand your poly, later in life, married with children. My spouse is monogamous. And will not understand.

 

[inkandiridiumnibs]

What do you do when you have come to understand your poly, later in life, married with children. My spouse is monogamous. And will not understand.

I just accepted that anyone else would be kept at arms length, regardless of how much attraction I had for them, and regardless of how much both of us wanted to have a relationship. I know my Ex expected me to reach out to a couple of people she suspected me of having a "secret" relationship with behind her back. She knew I didn't cheat on her, but she always suspected there was someone waiting in the wings. Jokes on her, when the other people and I went out separate ways, we stopped communicating in order to not keep stringing each other along.

I miss them, but I would not reach out now to spark anything up, and I am not going to just throw them a message out of the blue to tell them she is not part of my life anymore. I knew going into the relationship, it was going to be monogamous, and I promised myself, I would honor it.

 

[LostGirlTink]

What do you do when you have come to understand your poly, later in life, married with children. My spouse is monogamous. And will not understand.

I think that you would need to decide how important to you it is, how big a part of you is “missing” and whether you are happy in your relationship or if you are just bored.
I’m not poly. I never thought I could understand it, but I do. Not why he is poly, but what that means and doesn’t mean.
It might be worth having a conversation with her, not necessarily directly at first but introducing it through an article you read, etc.

What I’ve come to realize lately is how complex human beings are and how much of what we do is because it’s “supposed” to be a certain way and not because it’s the way people want their lives to be.

Also, reading lots of books, speaking to a lot of people (very few from here on this subject actually) and navigating things with Tolyk as he navigates things with his wife, I’ve come to realize how different polyamory is than an open marriage.

And as I’ve learned in other areas, labels only matter when you need a starting point for a conversation.
I can recommend some books if you’re interested.