Anti-Zionism is the same as Anti-Semitism

[Dazzle1]

Despite the attempt to absolve groups like Antifa, BDS, Code Pink and people like Barack Obama, Keith Ellison and Linda Sansour, these are people promote the rise of anti-Semitism in the U.S.

It is not Donald Trump or the Republicans who support Israel.

 

[Liar]

I think you forgot a comma.

Doesn't make you more right, but at least then you'd say what you intended to say.

 

[Kirkrapine]

Anti-Zionism != antisemitism. Most Jews do not live in Israel and never will. There are more Jews in New York than in Jerusalem, indeed, than in all of Israel. What does Israel even matter?

 

[phrodeau]

Zionists are Nationalists, and I think we covered what Nationalists are last week.

 

[beew]

I was initially perplexed by such an analogy. To me it sounded exactly like what the extreme Left does: "If you oppose illegal immigration, then you are a right winger and a racist."

But I googled it and it seems that there are, broadly speaking, two kinds of anti-Zionists:
- those who want Israel gone as a state,
- and those who oppose the violence against Palestinians and territorial expansionism of Israel's current leaders, (as per what they read online).

Two entirely different motivations and attitudes.
Have I got it right?





"Anti-Zionism is opposition to Zionism. The term is broadly defined in the modern era as the opposition to the ethnonationalist and political movement of Jews and Jewish culture that supports the establishment of a Jewish state as a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel (also referred to as Palestine, Canaan, or the Holy Land). Anti-Zionism is also defined as opposition to the State of Israel."
The term is used to describe various religious, moral and political points of view, but their diversity of motivation and expression is sufficiently different that "anti-Zionism" cannot be seen as having a single ideology or source."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Zionism

 

[Kirkrapine]

I was initially perplexed by such an analogy. To me it sounded exactly like what the extreme Left does: "If you oppose illegal immigration, then you are a right winger and a racist."

But I googled it and it seems that there are, broadly speaking, two kinds of anti-Zionists:
- those who want Israel gone as a state,
- and those who oppose the violence against Palestinians and territorial expansionism of Israel's current leaders, (as per what they read online).

Two entirely different motivations and attitudes.
Have I got it right?

Pretty much. And even those who want Israel gone as a state are not necessarily antisemitic.

 

[beew]

Pretty much. And even those who want Israel gone as a state are not necessarily antisemitic.

And where do they propose to put them instead?

Most of those who left for Israel, left because of the Holocaust. Most of those who are leaving now, are doing it because they worry about their safety or their children's safety.
Otherwise, what sane person would leave the oppulence of Northern Europe, for a place where one can be bombed or stabbed anytime, like Israel?



N.B.
I haven't morphed into a Jewish defender lol. I'm just interested in topics about Europe, and I think that the current clusterfuck in Europe has much broader implications. And violence seems to be on the rise everywhere in the world, and from all social groups in the US and EU too.

 

[naughtymind]

Despite the attempt to absolve groups like Antifa, BDS, Code Pink and people like Barack Obama, Keith Ellison and Linda Sansour, these are people promote the rise of anti-Semitism in the U.S.

It is not Donald Trump or the Republicans who support Israel.

A lie is still a lie, no matter how frequently or loudly you care to repeat it. Very simple:

-Jewish people are a group of human beings that share (to varying levels) share a particular religion and culture. They live across the globe, where the overwhelming majority of rational people have no issues, fears, or concerns with Jewish people, their religious views or customs, etc. Unfortunately, there is a real rise in hatred and violence towards Jewish people right here in America, because these extremists are both stupid and bigoted. The hatred that fuels these crimes is based in bigotry, and not on political sentiments about a nation state in the Middle East.

-Israel, is a nation state. It’s policies, and actions are the subject of both praise and criticism. The praise, and the criticism, come from people of all political and religious views (including Jewish). The political sentiments regarding Israel as a whole do not reflect on Jewish people whatsoever. It is also quite possible for most adults to be in simultaneously in favor of Israel itself, while holding strong objections to some of their governments policies.

It’s not that complicated.

 

[Kirkrapine]

It is not Donald Trump or the Republicans who support Israel.

Then who does?

 

[Kirkrapine]

If I were Israeli, I would be much more afraid of the Christian Zionists than the Palestinian sympathizers.

 

[naughtymind]

And where do they propose to put them instead?

Most of those who left for Israel, left because of the Holocaust. Most of those who are leaving now, are doing it because they worry about their safety or their children's safety.
Otherwise, what sane person would leave the oppulence of Northern Europe, for a place where one can be bombed or stabbed anytime, like Israel?



N.B.
I haven't morphed into a Jewish defender lol. I'm just interested in topics about Europe, and I think that the current clusterfuck in Europe has much broader implications. And violence seems to be on the rise everywhere in the world, and from all social groups in the US and EU too.

Agreed, but not by “all social groups”. Pretty much only the most radical extremist groups, like say the proud boys. The overwhelming majority of all social groups are sickened and appalled by these actions. This is not a “all sides” are guilty sort of thing! There are very specific groups, and certain politicians who are attempting to normalize this sort of bigotry, but it is NOT normal, nor shared all across the social-political spectrum.

 

[Kirkrapine]

And where do they propose to put them instead?

America would do, I suppose. Nobody objects when sabras come here.

 

[phrodeau]

I hear there's room in Honduras.

 

[beew]

Agreed, but not by “all social groups”. Pretty much only the most radical extremist groups, like say the proud boys. The overwhelming majority of all social groups are sickened and appalled by these actions. This is not a “all sides” are guilty sort of thing! There are very specific groups, and certain politicians who are attempting to normalize this sort of bigotry, but it is NOT normal, nor shared all across the social-political spectrum.

Yes, it seems to me too that in the US inter-racial violence is far more prevalent on the side of the White alt-right group. In saying that, one sees quite a few anti-White Christian views coming from the other side too.

I was thinking about France and Germany in particular. There has been, for example an increase in violence or violent messages against Muslims coming from the Christian far Right, and an increase in violence and violent messages against Jews coming from the Christian far right but Muslims too. Plus ISIS attacks.

It's the GB constant minimizing of certain things, and the view that a group is incapable of bigotry or violence too, because they are the ones more often discriminated against, that I often try to challenge.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

I hear there's room in Honduras.

There's also the huge abandoned Xanadu super mall in Jersey.

https://njmonthly.com/wp-content/uploads/cache/2014/07/Xanadu/3794440811.jpg

 

[beew]

I hear there's room in Honduras.

Well, if you guys deported all the illegals from sanctuary cities, you could easily make room theere for both Honduran and Israeli refugees.

 

[mAnn_Tagonist]

Dumb paki

 

[naughtymind]

Yes, it seems to me too that in the US inter-racial violence is far more prevalent on the side of the White alt-right group. In saying that, one sees quite a few anti-White Christian views coming from the other side too.

I was thinking about France and Germany in particular. There has been, for example an increase in violence or violent messages against Muslims coming from the Christian far Right, and an increase in violence and violent messages against Jews coming from the Christian far right but Muslims too. Plus ISIS attacks.

It's the GB constant minimizing of certain things, and the view that a group is incapable of bigotry or violence too, because they are the ones more often discriminated against, that I often try to challenge.

Again, these are extremists and bigots, to put it politely. This isn’t about individuals, or groups, with opposing social/political views. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with one another’s politics, musical tastes, or even sense of fashion; but hatred towards an entire group of people based on nothing but fear and propaganda is! Anti-Semetic language, and violence against any race or culture is a growing problem however; and it’s not even close to being a case of shared blame across the social spectrum.

I get where your coming from, but the language you useed earlier is dangerous in the sense that it insidiously promotes a false narrative that these acts of violence are somehow another difference of opinion, or that “both sides” are “just as guilty”. This language is being used specifically to normalize radical extremists, rather than calling them out and addressing them specifically and directly.

I don’t see many “anti white Christian” views espoused by anyone personally, perhaps you are referring to opposition to white, male, Christian domination of others? There is a big difference. Either way, neither “view” or “opinion” are even in the same category as acts of violence and bigotry that are on the rise in the US and Europe. Lumping them together in the same discussion is another example of how acts of extremism are being normalized when they are anything but normal. Here in the US, there have been a number of acts of vandalism, intimidation, and murders in: churches with predominantly African-Americans, Mosques, and Synagogues.

In every case, the response of those attacked, and their immediate community has been condemnation and calls for unity and understanding... not once has there been any suggestions to respond with violence! Thankfully, I think the overwhelming majority from all faiths gets it; and do not agree, support, condone, or encourage bigotry towards others. Very disappointingly, not all of our current leaders (globally) are on board with that: many are using the same fear mongering tactics that have been around for centuries to divide us. Even more disappointing; there are still many citizens who are gullible enough to be fooled by such rhetoric, despite countless disastrous historical examples that make clear how and why these tools are used.

 

[beew]

That was awkward phrasing on my part.

There were two parts to my thought process:

Extremism, which in America and Europe seems to be far more prevalent among the far Right.

Manicheian thinking or prejudice and the other ills, to which the Democratic side or non-White population aren't immune either.

Whether Whites or non-Whites, or alternatively Muslims or Christians are more prone to such thinking, I'll leave it to Busybody, Rory, KirkRapine and the GB happy crew to debate.

 

[beew]

ETA
Once again, I understand that regular Americans and Europeans aren't like that, regardless of faith, political beliefs or race.

I'm referring to what one often sees on the GB and in massmedia.

 

[Dazzle1]

I was initially perplexed by such an analogy. To me it sounded exactly like what the extreme Left does: "If you oppose illegal immigration, then you are a right winger and a racist."

But I googled it and it seems that there are, broadly speaking, two kinds of anti-Zionists:
- those who want Israel gone as a state,
- and those who oppose the violence against Palestinians and territorial expansionism of Israel's current leaders, (as per what they read online).

Two entirely different motivations and attitudes.
Have I got it right?





"Anti-Zionism is opposition to Zionism. The term is broadly defined in the modern era as the opposition to the ethnonationalist and political movement of Jews and Jewish culture that supports the establishment of a Jewish state as a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel (also referred to as Palestine, Canaan, or the Holy Land). Anti-Zionism is also defined as opposition to the State of Israel."
The term is used to describe various religious, moral and political points of view, but their diversity of motivation and expression is sufficiently different that "anti-Zionism" cannot be seen as having a single ideology or source."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Zionism

First ignore Wikipedia when it comes to the Middle East they won't let you call Hamas a terorist group

In regard to the second group of anti zionists they can never answer why they ignore all other human rights violations. A good example is Lorde who took the advice of two people and cancel her tour to Israel but contiued her Russia dates

 

[ishtat]

?

1.7 million citizens (21%) of Israelis are Arabs and Moslems. Christians and Druze are smaller minorities. What does the op expect of these citizens?

And just for clarity, Arabs are just as much Semites as Jews are.

 

[IG_88]

There's also the huge abandoned Xanadu super mall in Jersey.

https://njmonthly.com/wp-content/uploads/cache/2014/07/Xanadu/3794440811.jpg

Last I read was that they were gonna open that next year. Doesn't seem like it was that long ago either. Did they lose the money again?

 

[Kirkrapine]

First ignore Wikipedia when it comes to the Middle East they won't let you call Hamas a terorist group

Hamas is a political party, and nobody who has to deal with it has any practical option but to treat it as one.

 

[Dazzle1]

1.7 million citizens (21%) of Israelis are Arabs and Moslems. Christians and Druze are smaller minorities. What does the op expect of these citizens?

And just for clarity, Arabs are just as much Semites as Jews are.

And non Jews have full rights in Israel and have more freedom in any Arab country.

and anti-semitism is recongized as prejudice against Jews

and to other poster The Nazis also claimed to be a political party

They are both war criminals