Americans WANT an Alternative

[Ramone45]

The current Democrat Party is not it. They are the party of self loathing. Someone like Bill Clinton from the early '90's but with basic decency would be fine. Is Andrew Cuomo their poster boy now. He's just another corrupt, incompetent, self loathing socialist. Unless the Democrat Party gets its act together(which they won't), we're going to have to deal with more people like Trump. Cuomo:"America was never great." His own father is rolling over in his grave.

 

[IsItBad]

i agree there needs to be an alternative but

the reality is ...unless term limits are put on congress....stymied ineffective govt will just continue as normal. current govt's main objective is to preserve their benefits and way of life at any cost and to take in as much money as possible by selling their influence. the old idea of representation of constituents has sort of fallen by the wayside. i suspect some honest idealogs actually got to Washington but it didn't take long for the system to suck them in and wring out any shred of decency or honesty.

the basic requirements for being president should be upheld though......like being an American born person as an example

 

[Ramone45]

i agree there needs to be an alternative but

the reality is ...unless term limits are put on congress....stymied ineffective govt will just continue as normal. current govt's main objective is to preserve their benefits and way of life at any cost and to take in as much money as possible by selling their influence. the old idea of representation of constituents has sort of fallen by the wayside. i suspect some honest idealogs actually got to Washington but it didn't take long for the system to suck them in and wring out any shred of decency or honesty.

the basic requirements for being president should be upheld though......like being an American born person as an example

100% in favor of term limits and greatly reducing the perks of being in office. Strict campaign finance rules. strict conflict of interest rules.

 

[adrina]

It sure as shit is not the republicans.

 

[despete]

It sure as shit is not the republicans.

There have been 19 Republican Pres since Lincoln

Though the Democratic party is older, it has only elected 13.

Clearly, you are wrong.

Americans prefer Republican Presidents.

 

[runsilent]

It sure as shit is not the republicans.

And sure as shit not democrats. The DNC picked Hillary and not Bernie Sanders and now we have Trump.. Would you deny this?

 

[JohnnySavage]

The problem, as I see it - is the two party system. It's entrenched both legally and institutionally, but I really wish there were no political parties.

 

[Rokk0n]

The issue is the polarization of politics.

The majority of voters prefer moderate candidates and platforms. That choice is becoming increasingly limited.

 

[runsilent]

The problem, as I see it - is the two party system. It's entrenched both legally and institutionally, but I really wish there were no political parties.

Yep that's how got Trump. Looking for alternative. Hillary was given her due right to run on the based on the DNC. I don't like either of them but Trump was the candidate of not business of usual.

 

[BotanyBoy]

i agree there needs to be an alternative but

the reality is ...unless term limits are put on congress...

We already have term limits, the electorate paying attention and caring enough to vote is the price of democracy.

Just as a simple moral question, the current Democratic Party, flaws and all, is the obvious superior choice.

Based upon what?

On the other hand, Democrats didn't get is the tax heist, or pack the courts with religious lunatics, or have any Nazis running on their ticket, etc. It's a clear obvious moral alternative.

Are you calling a tax break a tax heist? LOL what an epic level of entitlement.

It sure as shit is not the republicans.

M'erica disagrees.

The issue is the polarization of politics.

The majority of voters prefer moderate candidates and platforms. That choice is becoming increasingly limited.

That's because the majority of voters don't have a clue.

Moderates don't do shit and often make things worse by "compromising" ...that's how you wind up with all sorts of jacked up pseudo socialist but kinda capitalistic scams that do a shit job for everyone. ACA is a fantastic example of a "moderate compromise" turning into a worthless gazzilion dollar turd. I bet you could count the number of Obama voters who wanted a bastardized version of Romneycare was zero.
Otherwise they would have voted for Romney instead...and people are sick and tired of that bullshit.

That's what's pushing the polarization....people are starting to figure out you can't make everything a middle of the road compromise and that government either needs to run shit or get the fuck outta the way because the half assed programs are garbage.

Beef is government controlling everything is uber anti-American and our government was NOT designed to be the nanny/god state that the left wants it to be.

 

[runsilent]

We have term limits? Not the senate or house.

 

[BotanyBoy]

We have term limits? Not the senate or house.

Yup.

Every six years for the senators and every two for the reps.

 

[Rokk0n]

The majority of voters are not radicalized.

The majority want moderate politics.

^The will of the people rings through all important documents in United States history.

 

[Ramone45]

We have term limits? Not the senate or house.

He's trying to say that Election Day IS term limits. However, our system is corrupt and the advantages of incumbency is unfair. Senators and Congressmen have only one goal; to be re-elected. They are not interested in the people's business. You get two terms and that's it. Get it done and get the hell out of here.

 

[BotanyBoy]

The majority want moderate politics.

The majority don't know what they want and don't realize they are sick and fucking tired of moderate politics.

That's why they are all calling for change and electing new "radical" pols instead of the same ol' shit.

And by "radical" I mean they have taken a stance that is not sitting uselessly on top dead center for more of the same ol' shit that hasn't been working like another Bush or Clinton.

 

[runsilent]

Yup.

Every six years for the senate and every two for the house.

Yes they never go away do you really want the same person for 40 years. The system is set up to keep them in office.

 

[SpeareChucker]

The current Democrat Party is not it. They are the party of self loathing. Someone like Bill Clinton from the early '90's but with basic decency would be fine. Is Andrew Cuomo their poster boy now. He's just another corrupt, incompetent, self loathing socialist. Unless the Democrat Party gets its act together(which they won't), we're going to have to deal with more people like Trump. Cuomo:"America was never great." His own father is rolling over in his grave.

i agree there needs to be an alternative but

the reality is ...unless term limits are put on congress....stymied ineffective govt will just continue as normal. current govt's main objective is to preserve their benefits and way of life at any cost and to take in as much money as possible by selling their influence. the old idea of representation of constituents has sort of fallen by the wayside. i suspect some honest idealogs actually got to Washington but it didn't take long for the system to suck them in and wring out any shred of decency or honesty.

the basic requirements for being president should be upheld though......like being an American born person as an example

My alternative is to vote libertarian. It's a vote of no-confidence to both parties.
As long as there are only two viable parties with the same goal, that of dominating a strong central government intent upon the redistribution of wealth to its voters, term limits are meaningless remedies to the problem because the new crop of politicians promising truth, justice and light, will begin, upon election, to work upon reelection to their position and then the next one and it will take some time to "retire" them at which point, they will become lobbyists.

 

[SpeareChucker]

He's trying to say that Election Day IS term limits. However, our system is corrupt and the advantages of incumbency is unfair. Senators and Congressmen have only one goal; to be re-elected. They are not interested in the people's business. You get two terms and that's it. Get it done and get the hell out of here.

I said pretty much the same thing the other day in the EC thread.
The individual congress critter represents such a vast multitude of individuals that he begins to ignore the individual, who contributes little to his reelection other than a vote, in favor of those who can purchase his status in the ruling class and ensure future votes.

 

[runsilent]

He's trying to say that Election Day IS term limits. However, our system is corrupt and the advantages of incumbency is unfair. Senators and Congressmen have only one goal; to be re-elected. They are not interested in the people's business. You get two terms and that's it. Get it done and get the hell out of here.

I so agree with term limits. The problem is the people who could decide on it want to keep their jobs.

 

[Rightguide]

I so agree with term limits. The problem is the people who could decide on it want to keep their jobs.

Here is a discussion of the list of Liberty Amendments proposed by Mark Levin:

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2013/08/mark_levins_the_liberty_amendments.html

 

[BotanyBoy]

He's trying to say that Election Day IS term limits.

Bingo....because democracy.

However, our system is corrupt and the advantages of incumbency is unfair.

No it's not. We just have a lazy ignorant electorate.

Most folks don't even know the basics and I bet you less than 20% of them could name their representatives off the top of their head because they just aren't involved and don't pay attention.

and Congressmen have only one goal; to be re-elected. They are not interested in the people's business.

Yes and no.

They are VERY interested in the people's business, because that's how they get elected.

What they are NOT interested in doing is shitting on the people that produce for or service that need to help out those who don't.

 

[SpeareChucker]

...
The individual congress critter represents such a vast multitude of individuals that he begins to ignore the individual, who contributes little to his reelection other than a vote, in favor of those who can purchase his status in the ruling class and ensure future votes.

They are VERY interested in the people's business, because that's how they get elected.

What they are NOT interested in doing is shitting on the people that produce for or service that need to help out those who don't.

Beg to disagree...

 

[BotanyBoy]

Yes they never go away do you really want the same person for 40 years.

If the people keep re-electing them for 40 years then the voters clearly approve of the job they are doing and should be able to keep them.

The system is set up to keep them in office.

No the system is set up to represent the people.

If the people don't like what's going on they can put a new person in office at the next election cycle.

That is the price, the responsibility of the citizenry in a representative democracy...to pick representatives.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Beg to disagree...

Start giving your reps big money, they will jump through their assholes to help you out when you call on them instead of having an intern drop a "Thanks for your concern, we'll get right on that." letter in the mail.

Money talks, buu shit walks.

I 100% gay-ron-tee.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/HXPOiAOsxF0/hqdefault.jpg

 

[SpeareChucker]

Still disagree. Most people do not pay any attention to politics and when they go to vote, it is based upon what they last saw on TV...