How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[SEVERUSMAX]

I'll leave this quote with you folks.

"The Gods have declared Christ to have been most pious. He has become immortal and by them, his memory is cherished. Whereas the Christians are a polluted set, contaminated and enmeshed in error." - Porphyry

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Another quote, from Julian by Gore Vidal.

"It is, of course, an old and bitter joke that the Nazarene himself was not a Christian. He was something else entirely."

 

[ishtat]

This isn't addressed to me, but I have never understood this argument. God does want all people, even those who think He is a "unmitigated funking cunt....and so is his son." The thing is what you mentioned aren't varieties of Christianity....because in Christianity......Christ, and what he did on the cross, is kind of important.

Your argument says that a loving God would force Buddhists and Muslims, Confucian, etc to do what He wants whether they believe it or even want it. Does not sound loving to me.

God wants to welcome all souls but He won't make you. I think the above argument sounds more like fear of making the wrong choice and being held accountable for it. It's easier to blame God for being intolerant than to admit our choice was wrong.

As usual you are talking tripe Tryharder. Xfrodo's God is his God, a god created in Xfrodo's mind who seeks to exclude and condemn all who do not adhere to Xfrodo's limited notion of what God is. On the other hand Jesus's God was summarised in the Sermon on the mount, inclusive, accepting tolerant and encompassing all. I don't know which is worse, X frodo's vicious exclusion of any person not adhering to his notion of what God should be, or your wooly minded banality.

Your version of religion is a cosy little narrow minded christian comfort station. Your sweetness and niceness are just as contemptible as Xfrodo's assumption that he speaks as an authoritative mouthpiece for God.

Your failure to understand is unsurprising, you have said it in several contexts in this thread. You seem challenged by the idea of rational thought whenever your comfortable "certainties" are challenged.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

As usual you are talking tripe Tryharder. Xfrodo's God is his God, a god created in Xfrodo's mind who seeks to exclude and condemn all who do not adhere to Xfrodo's limited notion of what God is. On the other hand Jesus's God was summarised in the Sermon on the mount, inclusive, accepting tolerant and encompassing all. I don't know which is worse, X frodo's vicious exclusion of any person not adhering to his notion of what God should be, or your wooly minded banality.

Your version of religion is a cosy little narrow minded christian comfort station. Your sweetness and niceness are just as contemptible as Xfrodo's assumption that he speaks as an authoritative mouthpiece for God.

Your failure to understand is unsurprising, you have said it in several contexts in this thread. You seem challenged by the idea of rational thought whenever your comfortable "certainties" are challenged.

The inner logic of fundies is a bewildering, dizzying one for sure, as they assume facts not in evidence to form a premise, use those "facts" to assume the next step in their logic from this biased premise, reject any contradictory evidence due to confirmation bias, and reach a very erroneous conclusion at the end. Also, since they already accept the Christian scriptures as undeniable truth, without any objective evidence or proof, they then assert other claims on the basis of this so-called "authority" or revelation. Then, in a bizarre, dog chasing its own tail, circular chain of logic, the proponents use these claims to defend and establish this "authority."

Then they attack other religions and their religions for doing the very same thing that they do.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Urban Dictionary Lol
PROVE IT!
a phrase that can be used when at a loss of words, to ensure an adequate come back. (Gives time for the user to get back on the "ball")
(Larry and Jerry are engaged in a vocal disagreement)

Larry: .... yeah? Well I f***** your mom
Jerry: PROVE IT!

Missed ya DCL!

Prove it.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

The Bible is the evidence and there aren't any scholars, liberal or conservative who agree with you. You are wrong.

Prove it.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

The Bible is the Evidence for the claims in the Bible like Trump's tweets are Evidence there was no Collusion.

I get tired -- don't you all get tired -- of naked stupidity?

"The Bible is its own Evidence." As the Millennial at Starbucks told me this morning, I can't even.

 

[Tryharder62]

They never consider that to truly know and understand their scriptures might well cause a sensible person to reject them for their lack of merit.

What you aren't considering is that I know a sensible person may reject scriptures, I just don't agree.

As usual you are talking tripe Tryharder. Xfrodo's God is his God, a god created in Xfrodo's mind who seeks to exclude and condemn all who do not adhere to Xfrodo's limited notion of what God is. On the other hand Jesus's God was summarised in the Sermon on the mount, inclusive, accepting tolerant and encompassing all. I don't know which is worse, X frodo's vicious exclusion of any person not adhering to his notion of what God should be, or your wooly minded banality.

Your version of religion is a cosy little narrow minded christian comfort station. Your sweetness and niceness are just as contemptible as Xfrodo's assumption that he speaks as an authoritative mouthpiece for God.

Your failure to understand is unsurprising, you have said it in several contexts in this thread. You seem challenged by the idea of rational thought whenever your comfortable "certainties" are challenged.

Again, I understand but I just don't agree. You really don't know about my life or how I view my faith. I just don't need to tear down my opponent in a debate. My life has not been sunshine and roses but I wouldn't trade a minute because it has brought me to where I am today. I couldn't always say that and I am grateful.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Which biblical prophecy says that human sacrifice would become the only way to get right with God?

Animal sacrifice was already a part of the Mosaic law in the OT. By prophecy are you referring to NT, OT or any area of scripture? The animal sacrifices pointed to the perfect sacrifice that was to come.

Here is one such prophecy pointing to the perfect human sacrifice or Christ written hundreds of years before the birth, death and resurrection of Christ:

Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Animal sacrifice was already a part of the Mosaic law in the OT. By prophecy are you referring to NT, OT or any area of scripture? The animal sacrifices pointed to the perfect sacrifice that was to come.

Here is one such prophecy pointing to the perfect human sacrifice or Christ written hundreds of years before the birth, death and resurrection of Christ:

Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Ah, yes, a favorite of the anti-contextualists, who want every possible passage that they can claim that Jesus fulfilled, never mind that the context has nothing to do with Jesus at all. Far from it.

Just as the passages in Isaiah Chapter 7 have nothing to do with Jesus, you know, the virgin giving birth to Immanuel, that part. It was a sign intended for the King, Ahaz of Judah, and meant to refer to reassurance that Judah wouldn't be conquered by the Northern Kingdom and Aram-Damascus. In the end, though, Ahaz had to turn to the Assyrians for relief.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Context, damn it!

Another example of prophecy falsely attributed to Jesus by Christians and their holy texts.

"When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi. 17 Then what was said through the prophet Jeremiah was fulfilled:

“A voice is heard in Ramah,
weeping and great mourning,
Rachel weeping for her children
and refusing to be comforted,
because they are no more.”

Matthew 2: 16-18


Now, read the actual context of the passage quoted from Jeremiah by the writer of "Matthew" (that name is never given in the text itself).


This is what the Lord says:

“A voice is heard in Ramah,
mourning and great weeping,
Rachel weeping for her children
and refusing to be comforted,
because they are no more.”

This is what the Lord says:

“Restrain your voice from weeping
and your eyes from tears,
for your work will be rewarded,”
declares the Lord.
“They will return from the land of the enemy.
So there is hope for your descendants,”
declares the Lord.
“Your children will return to their own land.

“I have surely heard Ephraim’s moaning:
‘You disciplined me like an unruly calf,
and I have been disciplined.
Restore me, and I will return,
because you are the Lord my God.
After I strayed,
I repented;
after I came to understand,
I beat my breast.
I was ashamed and humiliated
because I bore the disgrace of my youth.’
Is not Ephraim my dear son,
the child in whom I delight?
Though I often speak against him,
I still remember him.
Therefore my heart yearns for him;
I have great compassion for him,”
declares the Lord.

Jeremiah 31: 15-20

 

[phrodeau]

Animal sacrifice was already a part of the Mosaic law in the OT. By prophecy are you referring to NT, OT or any area of scripture? The animal sacrifices pointed to the perfect sacrifice that was to come.

Here is one such prophecy pointing to the perfect human sacrifice or Christ written hundreds of years before the birth, death and resurrection of Christ:

Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

The story of Abraham and Isaac proves that human sacrifice is not the way to win God's favor.

And your Isaiah quote doesn't have anything to say about resurrection, or even death. Later in Isaiah 53:9 the so-called prophet says the victim will die among rich people, which somehow never entered the Passion narrative. The reward for betraying Jesus was only about $200.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

The story of Abraham and Isaac proves that human sacrifice is not the way to win God's favor.

And your Isaiah quote doesn't have anything to say about resurrection, or even death. Later in Isaiah 53:9 the so-called prophet says the victim will die among rich people, which somehow never entered the Passion narrative. The reward for betraying Jesus was only about $200.

Isaiah was talking about Jesus and it was not the only place. There are many prophecies of Jesus on the cross in the Old Testament. Read Psalm 22. It's a prayer of Jesus to the Father when He was suffering on the cross. Even the fact that He would be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver is in the OT. I can post latet.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I'm pretty sure that the writers of the gospels wrote them in such a way as to make their version of Jesus fulfill whatever supposed prophecy (and how is a Psalm a prophecy, anyway...a Psalm is pretty much always a word of praise or cry of anguish from the present day Psalmist) they felt necessary to convince people that he was the Messiah. It's always a bit too convenient.....if you ask me. In fact, the writer of "John" basically admits that his motive is to persuade people that Jesus is the Messiah. Implicit in this is a willingness to fudge the truth more than a little, supposedly in the pursuit of a nobler goal.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Messianic Prophecies fulfilled in Christ:

http://scwtenor.com/harmony/wp-cont...anic-Prophecies-Fulfilled-by-Yeshua-Jesus.pdf

 

[Emerson40]

eyer's summer seems to be going just about exactly as you'd expect.


https://78.media.tumblr.com/08a042c09b10c7be9e7e157946e168db/tumblr_o2kaymHV2r1v3j3who1_500.jpg

Probably Liberals posing as Christians to make them look bad.

Weird. I can’t recall Right Leaning Religious Fundamentalists being referred to as ‘Liberal’ before.

And since when did Fundamentalist (insert any organized religion) ever need help to look bad?

 

[phrodeau]

Psalm 22 was a popular song that Jesus knew, so he sang it. BFD.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Weird. I can’t recall Right Leaning Religious Fundamentalists being referred to as ‘Liberal’ before.

And since when did Fundamentalist (insert any organized religion) ever need help to look bad?

That about sums up how I feel about this.

 

[rae121452]

Heaven
Talking Heads

Everyone is trying to get to the bar
The name of the bar, the bar is called Heaven
The band in Heaven plays my favorite song
They play it once again, they play it all night long

Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens
Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens

There is a party, everyone is there
Everyone will leave at exactly the same time
Its hard to imagine that nothing at all
could be so exciting, and so much fun

Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens
Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens

When this kiss is over it will start again
It will not be any different
It will be exactly the same
It`s hard to imagine that nothing at all
Could be so exciting, could be so much fun

Heaven is a place where nothing every happens
Heaven is a place where nothing every happens
Songwriters: DAVID BYRNE,JERRY HARRISON
© Warner/Chappell Music, Inc.
For non-commercial use only.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Psalm 22 was a popular song that Jesus knew, so he sang it. BFD.

Yeah, I'm familiar with the misuse of this Psalm as some sort of Messianic prophecy, but I maintain that the number of actual prophecies made about a Messiah are a much shorter list, and that it's highly doubtful that the Jesus that may or may not have historically existed ever fulfilled a single one of them. For one thing, if he was, in fact, descended from Jehoiachin, according to Jeremiah, he couldn't be Messiah, because Jehoiachin's line was cursed by Jehovah according to Jeremiah. Jeremiah 22:30

Also, according to Jeremiah, the Messiah's name is actually detailed, Jeremiah 23: 5-6, and it is translated "THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS", which incidentally, is not the translation typically given for the name Yeshua (THE LORD OUR SAVIOR).

According to Jeremiah, the Messiah's name should be a name which translates to "THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS," so by that logic, the Jews have every right and reason to believe that, in their Faith, Messiah has yet to arrive.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Psalm 22 was a popular song that Jesus knew, so he sang it. BFD.

Psalm 22 is a prayer of Jesus on the Cross written hundreds of years before His birth.

If you look at the details in the Psalm, they are fulfilled during the Crucifixion.

 

[bestone4ever]

How the fuck is this goddamn thread still going? There's no such thing as god, devil, angels, ghosts, spirits, apparitions, and whatever goes bump in the night or makes you feel guilty enough to confess your sins to a young person fucker on Sundays.

 

[phrodeau]

Psalm 22 is a prayer of Jesus on the Cross written hundreds of years before His birth.

If you look at the details in the Psalm, they are fulfilled during the Crucifixion.

Here are some of the details from Psalm 22.

12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
13 Roaring lions that tear their prey
open their mouths wide against me.
14 I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted within me.
15 My mouth is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.
16 Dogs surround me,
a pack of villains encircles me;

Show me where these are mentioned in the Gospels.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Here are some of the details from Psalm 22.Show me where these are mentioned in the Gospels.

Phrodeau, don't you understand, my friend? Context is of the Devil.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Ah, yes, a favorite of the anti-contextualists, who want every possible passage that they can claim that Jesus fulfilled, never mind that the context has nothing to do with Jesus at all. Far from it.

Just as the passages in Isaiah Chapter 7 have nothing to do with Jesus, you know, the virgin giving birth to Immanuel, that part. It was a sign intended for the King, Ahaz of Judah, and meant to refer to reassurance that Judah wouldn't be conquered by the Northern Kingdom and Aram-Damascus. In the end, though, Ahaz had to turn to the Assyrians for relief.

Every one of them have to do with Jesus. Are you blind? Really?