Revenge: Forgiveness or Indifference, which is best?

[FireDeFrances]

I know this is a strange topic, considering most of the posts I've read and/or posted myself, but a friend of mine sent me a link espousing forgiveness instead of revenge and, while I know she had the best of intentions (saving my soul-she works for the Protestant Church), it sort of pissed me off.

So ...

Steps on soapbox

Regarding Revenge:

Forgiveness is sold like it’s a great idea, better for you, better for them, all around a fix for everyone but …

I don’t believe in forgiving people for choices they have made that were made for the deliberate abuse, humiliation, molestation or degradation of another person to supplement their own power. One of the “joys” of being an adult, is having to take responsibility for your actions and choices.

For me to forgive someone, I have to feel some sympathy, empathy or pity for them or their situation. In the cases described above, I don’t feel that. Not one bit. When they made the choice to belittle someone else for their own enjoyment or inflation, they made the choice to experience the consequences and results of their choice. Truly evil choices don’t care if you forgive them or not, so that it is all about you then. And, for me, indifference is better than forgiveness.

To experience true indifference to someone who delighted in hurting you is the best revenge. To not recognize them, to be unable to recall their name or where you “know” them from is the best result I see for myself with this kind of person.

I’m still working on it and the pessimist in me doesn’t see it happening soon, but that is my goal.

Steps down from soapbox

Thoughts?

 

[SissySalina]

Confused sissy.
Thought 1: revenge is a dish best served cold.
Thought 2: what comes around, goes around.
Thought 3: sometimes is comes back around and bites you on the ass.

Were those the kind of thoughts you were looking for?

 

[FGB]

She was basing her opinion on something like this.

http://biblehub.com/romans/12-19.htm

My thoughts...

Forgiving is one thing ...forgetting is something else.

 

[FireDeFrances]

Revenge

Hmmm,

Okay, I was mostly curious what other people thought about revenge or not.

In my life it is NOT true that what goes around, comes around or that things will even out. I know people who have never had to suffer the consequences of the abuse they dish out, due to people's inability to inflict justice, cowardice or any other number of reasons.

Should we forgive? It's great to learn your lesson and so in that essence you don't forget, but forgive? I don't think so.

Life is hard and it sucks at times, but you make a decision on how to react (once you reach the age of reason) you are not controlled by your basic instincts, you have the ability to make choices. To me, choosing to inflict damage on others is unforgivable.

Maybe I just wanted to vent, but I am curious how others view this. Is there a list of unforgivable actions? Should everything be forgiven? Is active revenge ever justified? Should we all just turn the other cheek forever?

 

[adrina]

There's only one person in my life that I have long term bad feelings about and for.

I do not wish revenge upon him. I wish to never see him, speak to him, hear him again. Ever. I can't change the damage he wrought. I can't change the damage he is still causing - thankfully not to me and mine anymore.

I wouldn't waste my time on revenge on him. He has stolen enough time from me. I'll give him no more.

Indifference? I doubt I'll ever be indifferent. If I were, it would be better for me. What it would mean for him? I don't care.

 

[Queersetti]

I'm gay and Italian, what do you think?

 

[spacekowboy]

I'm gay and Italian, what do you think?

So then vengeance with an ascot?

 

[jaF0]

I'll forgive you for this totally meaningless drivel and for confusing the Hell out of everyone, but I won't forget you. I'll get you in the end.

 

[Magnar]

Revenge usually creates an ongoing anger in both directions. If you like being angry and having people angry with you, go with revenge.

Indifference isn’t a bad choice provided you can forget, and with enough time, we all forget anyway. Have you seen my keys?

Forgiveness is the hardest one most of the time, but yields the best results in terms of inner peace. Or so they say, the smug fucks.

 

[StElmosFire]

Just because you forgive someone doesn't mean you take them back into your life ("fool me once...). Forgiveness isn't about letting them off the hook, it's about letting it go so you can move on and live a life not consumed by hatred, loathing, jealousy, envy, etc.

And if someday in the future you learn they died in a hideous car wreck, sure, take five minutes of pleasure in rejoicing over there new eternal life in hell, but then find it in your heart again to forgive.

 

[Noor]

For yourself unconditional forgiveness is best, since it frees you. It doesn't mean you have to have anything to do with them or even let them know.
If you need a reason, forgive them because they were born a jerk/with a super sliding zipper/a pathological liar/full of shit/whatever.
Indifference is best towards the other person, it gives them no edge to get at you with. Common courtesy is always good, treat them like any other stranger on the street in which you have no interest.
If you happen to take over their organization at a later date, it was merely a consequence.

 

[MelissaBaby]

For yourself unconditional forgiveness is best, since it frees you. It doesn't mean you have to have anything to do with them or even let them know.
If you need a reason, forgive them because they were born a jerk/with a super sliding zipper/a pathological liar/full of shit/whatever.
Indifference is best towards the other person, it gives them no edge to get at you with. Common courtesy is always good, treat them like any other stranger on the street in which you have no interest.
If you happen to take over their organization at a later date, it was merely a consequence.

The problem with indifference is that the feelings haven't really gone away, they are lurking, waiting for the right moment to reassert themselves.

I'm a big believer in closure. That doesn't necessarily have to take the form of revenge, but there needs to be some form of catharsis, of emotional cleansing. Revenge is just the easiest way of achieving it. It is always harder to accept your responsibility for things and deal with your own shit than it is to take it out on someone else.

I have no shortage of people to feel I have been wronged by, but none of them did as much damage to me as I did to myself. And for years, I punished myself, took revenge on myself, perhaps. I only really stopped when I found other ways to release the feelings, in therapy and especially, through my writing.

 

[StElmosFire]

The problem with indifference is that the feelings haven't really gone away, they are lurking, waiting for the right moment to reassert themselves.

I'm a big believer in closure. That doesn't necessarily have to take the form of revenge, but there needs to be some form of catharsis, of emotional cleansing. Revenge is just the easiest way of achieving it. It is always harder to accept your responsibility for things and deal with your own shit than it is to take it out on someone else.

I have no shortage of people to feel I have been wronged by, but none of them did as much damage to me as I did to myself. And for years, I punished myself, took revenge on myself, perhaps. I only really stopped when I found other ways to release the feelings, in therapy and especially, through my writing.

I think I agree. If indifference is a feeling then it's really hatred, anger and all the other bad stuff that you've just wrapped up in another word. If you were truly indifferent you simply wouldn't give a fuck, which would be sort of like forgiveness.

 

[Noor]

I think I agree. If indifference is a feeling then it's really hatred, anger and all the other bad stuff that you've just wrapped up in another word. If you were truly indifferent you simply wouldn't give a fuck, which would be sort of like forgiveness.

I meant true indifference. I forgave them and were indifferent to them from that point on. Because we exist in some of the same groups, I just treated them like anyone else and because I really don't care. I figure everyone has their own issues and lots of people do things that affect me, but are not about me.

As far as people seeking revenge, which is usually counterproductive, I always tell them that living well and forgiving them is the best possible revenge because most people hurt others because of their own control issues, and they want a attention and a response, by having none, they are often diffused, and look for other targets.

 

[FireDeFrances]

Which is best?

Don't we have a responsibility to humanity in general to stop the person who behaved so consciously nasty? Who deliberately, and with forethought, inflicted pain and suffering, to stop them instead of redirect them? How much pain did I allow to happen to other innocents by not stopping this person?

This is a real repercussion I find myself having to deal with. I do understand I am not the actual perpetrator of these actions. However, by not stopping this person-through action such as physically stopping them or by making others aware (for instance, people, theoretically, in control who could/should have been able to bring them to justice) until action was taken against them and they were stopped, how much of that guilt do I share?

Sorry. I'll stop the thread here, if anyone is truly interested in talking about this topic, please feel free to PM me. I'm trying for some clarity and I feel like I'm just screwing up the question. Thank you to all of you who took the time to answer me and share your thoughts in a constructive way, if is appreciated.

 

[Eisranac]

Sorry. I'll stop the thread here, if anyone is truly interested in talking about this topic, please feel free to PM me. I'm trying for some clarity and I feel like I'm just screwing up the question.

I think you are doing a great disservice by stopping the discussion here.

Providing clarity on a complex topic which you believe is important to discuss and is incredibly difficult to convey is bound to be “screwed up”. Please keep trying until you get it right, and I would not be surprised if someone came along and helped you clarify the message.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Don't we have a responsibility to humanity in general to stop the person who behaved so consciously nasty? Who deliberately, and with forethought, inflicted pain and suffering, to stop them instead of redirect them? How much pain did I allow to happen to other innocents by not stopping this person?

This is a real repercussion I find myself having to deal with. I do understand I am not the actual perpetrator of these actions. However, by not stopping this person-through action such as physically stopping them or by making others aware (for instance, people, theoretically, in control who could/should have been able to bring them to justice) until action was taken against them and they were stopped, how much of that guilt do I share?

Sorry. I'll stop the thread here, if anyone is truly interested in talking about this topic, please feel free to PM me. I'm trying for some clarity and I feel like I'm just screwing up the question. Thank you to all of you who took the time to answer me and share your thoughts in a constructive way, if is appreciated.

What you are talking about in this post is very different from the question of whether or not a person should seek revenge. Stopping further wrongdoing isn't revenge.

 

[jaF0]

Don't we have a responsibility to humanity in general to stop the person who behaved so consciously nasty? Who deliberately, and with forethought, inflicted pain and suffering, to stop them instead of redirect them? How much pain did I allow to happen to other innocents by not stopping this person?

This is a real repercussion I find myself having to deal with. I do understand I am not the actual perpetrator of these actions. However, by not stopping this person-through action such as physically stopping them or by making others aware (for instance, people, theoretically, in control who could/should have been able to bring them to justice) until action was taken against them and they were stopped, how much of that guilt do I share?

You're talking about justice, not revenge. Justice is stopping bad acts legally via proper means. Revenge is doing bad acts to those who have done bad acts.

Justice is right. Revenge is wrong.

 

[Saint Peter]

Revenge satisfies like no other.

Payment in full.



Oh yeah.

 

[StElmosFire]

I meant true indifference. I forgave them and were indifferent to them from that point on. Because we exist in some of the same groups, I just treated them like anyone else and because I really don't care. I figure everyone has their own issues and lots of people do things that affect me, but are not about me.

As far as people seeking revenge, which is usually counterproductive, I always tell them that living well and forgiving them is the best possible revenge because most people hurt others because of their own control issues, and they want a attention and a response, by having none, they are often diffused, and look for other targets.

I got that from your original post, which I was in agreement with. When people act indifferent, it's because they're not indifferent. When they truly are indifferent, they really just don't care.

 

[Que]

Revenge satisfies like no other.

Payment in full.



Oh yeah.

I enjoy entertaining revenge fantasies but if you really want to hurt someone indifference is definitely the way to go.

 

[thør]

Revenge satisfies like no other.

Payment in full.



Oh yeah.

Never ever talk about revenge.

 

[HoneyBrunette]

Personally, I dont forget major transgressions against me. Nor do I forgive them.

I fantasise revenge in the immediate aftermath. It makes me smile.

If I dont have to deal with them again, or will only deal with them on very rare occasions. Then indifference works for me and it seems to sting them. I guess that is actually a form of revenge...

The people who have wronged me that I do have to deal with... they are harder... but I am trying to approach it from a sense of pity for them. That they are so insecure and weak that they could only react in that way. Or that they have had people be so awful to them that they have learnt that x is ok.... That approach is not easy. But I try to keep it in mind when i have to interact with them.

 

[CandiCame]

Indifference is the best kind of revenge. It. KILLS. THEM.

This actually happened to me a few days ago. I ran into a guy who used to "fight" me in high school, you know, a duchebag jock bully. I was in the grocery store getting TV dinners because I just didn't feel like cooking, and I ran into this guy. He went on and on about me like we were fucking friends.

I said, "I'm sorry, my man, I just don't remember you. What'd you say your name was? Where'd you go to school? What year'd you graduate?"

It pissed him off so bad and there wasn't a GODDAMN thing he could do about it. He kept trying to jog my memory without admitting that he used to frequently try to beat my ass. Finally I was like, "Well, great running into you, Dan!"

It wasn't his name- it was close, but it wasn't his name. It KILLED him. It was great.

 

[CandiCame]

Don't we have a responsibility to humanity in general to stop the person who behaved so consciously nasty? Who deliberately, and with forethought, inflicted pain and suffering, to stop them instead of redirect them? How much pain did I allow to happen to other innocents by not stopping this person?

This is a real repercussion I find myself having to deal with. I do understand I am not the actual perpetrator of these actions. However, by not stopping this person-through action such as physically stopping them or by making others aware (for instance, people, theoretically, in control who could/should have been able to bring them to justice) until action was taken against them and they were stopped, how much of that guilt do I share?

Sorry. I'll stop the thread here, if anyone is truly interested in talking about this topic, please feel free to PM me. I'm trying for some clarity and I feel like I'm just screwing up the question. Thank you to all of you who took the time to answer me and share your thoughts in a constructive way, if is appreciated.

No.

This has an objective answer and I had to go to therapy to learn it. I used to feel JUST LIKE THIS. It breaks down like this, and again, I don't expect you to believe me, because it took me a LONG time.

Adults are responsible for their own actions. It is not your responsibility to change someone else's behavior. You don't have to teach the whole world- it's not your responsibility.

It really, really feels like it is, for a certain kind of person. And you think, "If your parents had loved you enough to teach you not to act a fool like this, I wouldn't have to do this. But when you run your mouth, eventually you get hit in it, and you need to learn that. I can teach you that without killing you. The next person might not be so nice."

And then you are /constantly/ in fights. Because you feel like it's your responsibility. But the simple, objective truth is that it is NOT. It's NOT your responsibility, it's THEIR responsibility. And that thought is not untrue- about how one day they are statistically probably going to fuck with the wrong person and end up dead. It happens every day. But that's on them. It's not on you.