Thoughts About Writing Incest

[RejectReality]

Having money in the mix probably has as much to do with that comment as any other element. Jealousy of, and bitterness toward people with wealth is rampant. The news cycle has been feeding it for decades.

The double standard still applies, though. Put a rich woman in the same story, and it won't draw the same amount of criticism.

Probably depends on how rich they are, too. I have one where he's reasonably well off. Owns a mid-sized ad business, some apartments, can afford to rent storage for a large RV, has a fairly large house, even though he lives alone. Doesn't seem to draw any ire.

There's a line between self-made, comfortable wealth, and those with enough to flaunt it. The closer you push toward Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous, the closer you get to Eat the Rich.

I've only written a couple of pieces that could be called romances. One of them was older guy/young woman. The guy was in no way creep, he was respectful. sweet and in the end the girl had to be the aggressor because by his admission later he would never have made a move or expressed his feelings because he ws afraid of looking like a dirty old man.

One of the comments on the story "Blah blah blah dirty old man with money gets the hot girl"

Readers have predetermined ideas that nothing we can do is ever going to shake.

 

[RejectReality]

Might look up some reference later, but the strongly tipped scales toward aggressive daughters is, in and of itself, a piece of evidence.

When something does well, you get more of it. When something gets criticised and downvoted, you get less. Supply and demand.

This discussion seems kind of abstract. I'd like to see some references to actual evidence. Do father-daughter stories where father is the instigator do badly because readers think they're creepy? I have no idea. My impression of most of these stories is that daughter is the aggressor. But that's based on my very incomplete knowledge of the relevant stories here.

 

[GrandTeton]

I've written several incest stories, all brother-sister (because I had no sisters?) romances. Hard to figure out my own motives, I suppose, but the sister was generally, if not the aggressor (and some were), fine with it and they lived happily ever after. It's a situation in which trust has been established. Fantasy? Of course. The details are as accurate as I can make them but the emotional connections are imaginary. They could happen, I suppose.

 

[Alice_Rosaleen]

I wrote my father/daughter series because I got an idea for a cool story arc involving magic, revenge, and lots of kinky sex (*some with a Kitsune). I wrote my bro/sis series because I wanted to write an MMF scene with birthday spankings. Mom/son because I thought it would be challenging to write about a son who decides to become his mom's secret Valentine, but from the mom's unsuspecting point of view. I never tried to send a message or work through my feelings, just tell a good story that includes the intricacies of incest to build tension and conflict. It's only when I read it later do I see what truths I've including in my fiction.

 

[ElectricBlue]

It's only when I read it later do I see what truths I've including in my fiction.

Which is why your stories read truer than many, I think, because there's a little core of truth at the heart of them (even if you didn't know it was there).

 

[Dark_Raven]

This discussion seems kind of abstract. I'd like to see some references to actual evidence. Do father-daughter stories where father is the instigator do badly because readers think they're creepy? I have no idea. My impression of most of these stories is that daughter is the aggressor. But that's based on my very incomplete knowledge of the relevant stories here.

Thinking about this from a father's perspective, I think it's way more dangerous for the father to be the instigator. The daughter could not only reject his advances, but outright humiliate him (as well as humiliate him to the rest of the relatives). Whereas if the daughter is the instigator... well, most men are horny as hell and it's unlikely that the dad would do anything to hurt his daughter, even if he was to reject her advances. Since the audience for these stories is usually a male, it only makes sense that they would fantasize about the young, hot, female being the instigator. And yes, a dad coming on to his daughter can definitely give that "creepy" feeling.

If I was to read a father/daughter incest story here on Lit, I would definitely prefer that the daughter was "hot for dad" and was the instigator. The Dark Room by nikki_2021 is a good example of this. It's a 3 part series with an aggregate score of 4.82, which should tell you something.

On an unrelated topic: I came here looking for a subforum I could post a question in regarding finding more stories with a specific subject matter (ie: Anyone know any more stories like this?). Can someone point me to the correct subforum to post that question in? Thanks!

 

[ElectricBlue]

On an unrelated topic: I came here looking for a subforum I could post a question in regarding finding more stories with a specific subject matter (ie: Anyone know any more stories like this?). Can someone point me to the correct subforum to post that question in? Thanks!

Looking for a story:

http://forum.literotica.com/forumdisplay.php?f=63

 

[SimonDoom]

Thinking about this from a father's perspective, I think it's way more dangerous for the father to be the instigator. The daughter could not only reject his advances, but outright humiliate him (as well as humiliate him to the rest of the relatives). Whereas if the daughter is the instigator... well, most men are horny as hell and it's unlikely that the dad would do anything to hurt his daughter, even if he was to reject her advances. Since the audience for these stories is usually a male, it only makes sense that they would fantasize about the young, hot, female being the instigator. And yes, a dad coming on to his daughter can definitely give that "creepy" feeling.

If I was to read a father/daughter incest story here on Lit, I would definitely prefer that the daughter was "hot for dad" and was the instigator. The Dark Room by nikki_2021 is a good example of this. It's a 3 part series with an aggregate score of 4.82, which should tell you something.

On an unrelated topic: I came here looking for a subforum I could post a question in regarding finding more stories with a specific subject matter (ie: Anyone know any more stories like this?). Can someone point me to the correct subforum to post that question in? Thanks!

I think you are looking for the "Looking for a Story" forum.

 

[Hypoxia]

But in the Literotica world it's reversed; mom-son is more popular than father-daughter.

I deliberately wrote a story in mom-son and dad-daughter versions, each where the woman must save the male by naked contact leading to fucks. Both have near-identical vote scores but the mom-son had twice as many views.

In my opinion, intra-familial sexual behavior on the sibling level is almost always a condition of hyper-sexuality and raging hormones. When a parent or other adult is involved it's more a narcissistic lust. Sexual play among cousins is pretty common I think.

Cousin marriage is mandatory in some cultures and common in others, including Anglo-Americans over the past couple centuries. IMHO it's incest if the cousins were raised as almost siblings, very close. IRL sibling fucking is usually older brother raping little sister. Not real erotic.

It surprises me how older women are always portrayed as 'ripe', strong and beautiful, while older men are (almost) always creepy.

Older men have power, which corrupts, creepily.

I never tried to send a message or work through my feelings, just tell a good story that includes the intricacies of incest to build tension and conflict. It's only when I read it later do I see what truths I've including in my fiction.

When I write, it's to tell a story, likely not to make a philophical point. The Essays category is for that.

 

[Hypoxia]

Older people, adults/parents, have power. Older brothers and sisters have power. Stronger minded, self-assured people have power. In some cases it is indicated that power equals sex-appeal, while in others, it seems to be creepy.

IRL incest is a subset of sexual power asymmetries. The older sibling is likely stronger. The older parent or step-parent, or aunt or uncle, are authority figures who may determine the victim's survival. As such, they're slightly more toxic than other authority figures: pastors, teachers, doctors, counselors, cops. The general rule: Them with power fuck them without. I think that's part of The Human Condition.

We can't write of IRL incest here because LIT 18 rule.

I think, in most of the times, it IS creepy, as different viewpoints have different opinions on the same situation. One side may shrug 'I thought (s)he liked it too', or 'It wasn't a big deal'.

It's fiction, I know.

Yes, it's fiction, like murder mysteries, spy and war stories, adventures, propaganda, preaching. Authors may write whatever is allowable in their jurisdiction to excite, terrify, mystify, or creep-out their readers and themselves. Authors choose what to write. I choose to write what doesn't creep me out too much. Maybe I'll push that envelope. Later.

 

[Alice_Rosaleen]

When I write, it's to tell a story, likely not to make a philophical point. The Essays category is for that.

That's exactly what I'm saying I do too- I write a good story that holds an audience, not try to make a point. No one's ever recommended I write an essay instead.
*Of course, I think people care too much about what an author or artist was "trying to say" in the first place. If the author or artist is doing their job, they're only concerned with telling a good story or applying their craft to the best of their creative abilities. What the audience gets out of it later is more important than the creator's intent, because no one reads a book with the author there explaining it.

 

[SolarRay]

Of course, I think people care too much about what an author or artist was "trying to say" in the first place. If the author or artist is doing their job, they're only concerned with telling a good story or applying their craft to the best of their creative abilities. What the audience gets out of it later is more important than the creator's intent, because no one reads a book with the author there explaining it.

This is one of the things that always fascinated me about Magritte's work. He scoffed when asked about the meaning of his paintings. He was trying to give the viewer an authentic experience, even titling them with an intent to further take the image out of a familiar context in order to allow that to happen.

 

[Alice_Rosaleen]

This is one of the things that always fascinated me about Magritte's work. He scoffed when asked about the meaning of his paintings. He was trying to give the viewer an authentic experience, even titling them with an intent to further take the image out of a familiar context in order to allow that to happen.

The surrealist movement introduced many ideas- separating subjective meaning from imagery for instance- and the only thing they took seriously was absurdity.
I think it was important in distinguishing "art" (in the Greek sense of art being the application of techne/craft) from self-expression, decoration, political propaganda, or even entertainment. And to reflect on why the experience and context of art- whether you're in a gallery or a concert hall- can be as important as its content.
Ultimately, it's art for the sake of art. Write for the sake of the story no matter the category.

 

[PenLightStories]

IRL incest is a subset of sexual power asymmetries. The older sibling is likely stronger. The older parent or step-parent, or aunt or uncle, are authority figures who may determine the victim's survival. As such, they're slightly more toxic than other authority figures: pastors, teachers, doctors, counselors, cops. The general rule: Them with power fuck them without. I think that's part of The Human Condition.

We can't write of IRL incest here because LIT 18 rule.

Yes, it's fiction, like murder mysteries, spy and war stories, adventures, propaganda, preaching. Authors may write whatever is allowable in their jurisdiction to excite, terrify, mystify, or creep-out their readers and themselves. Authors choose what to write. I choose to write what doesn't creep me out too much. Maybe I'll push that envelope. Later.

My impression of most taboo/incest stories is just what you alluded to: it’s the forbiddennes of the attraction and the act that draws people to it. For some people, the very idea crosses a line that makes them uncomfortable. For others, they can’t imagine this idea in real life but subjects like spy thrillers, horror stories, or other topics are also well outside what the reader can imagine and it’s the thrill of someone else doing it that gets the reader excited.

I think a lot of incest porn or erotica is also driven by the idea that it’s someone else and someone else’s family member so, in the end, the reader is abstracted from having to relate directly to the character.

I think real real life incest is so hard to distinguish from abuse, that it’s not something I could approve of, unless in maybe very unique circumstances. Someone might say “my parent is 60 and I’m 35 so we can make our own choices” but is there some other reason driving it for one of those people, like loneliness or the need just to connect in some way to that family member? Can you not connect in other ways that don’t distort or confuse the primary relationship?

 

[Alice_Rosaleen]

Anais Nin began her affair with her father after twenty three years of estrangement, when he was in failing health. But he still had the power. Letters with lines like "You are not only my daughter…you are two daughters, one by flesh and the other by spirit," demonstrated how he seduced his daughter using what some psychologists call the doppelganger theory- a method of making it seem like two people are deeply linked on a spiritual level. This often happens with minors, when the parent almost makes the child feel that their relationship is symbiotic, which explains why later those children will still relate to their abusive parent more than the one who stood by.

 

[Hypoxia]

My analytical but foggy mind is just now meta-classifying incests.

* IRL incest: Compulsion, manipulation, abuse.
* LIT incest: Romanticised, triggered, or accidental.
* IMG incest: It's imaginary, only visualized, not done.

We don't see too many of the last. I wonder why?

A plot bunny just popped up. MC-IMG-Incest! Narrator with Mind-Control power forces some kin to sexually obsess over them. No touching or flirting, no words exchanged, only the victim's mental images. Or the narrator *believes* some innocent-seeming relative is projecting forbidden images. Are they a victim or only nutz?

Is LIT incest best with atypical power relations? Or in LIT fantasyland, does it matter?

 

[SimonDoom]

My analytical but foggy mind is just now meta-classifying incests.

* IRL incest: Compulsion, manipulation, abuse.
* LIT incest: Romanticised, triggered, or accidental.
* IMG incest: It's imaginary, only visualized, not done.

We don't see too many of the last. I wonder why?

A plot bunny just popped up. MC-IMG-Incest! Narrator with Mind-Control power forces some kin to sexually obsess over them. No touching or flirting, no words exchanged, only the victim's mental images. Or the narrator *believes* some innocent-seeming relative is projecting forbidden images. Are they a victim or only nutz?

Is LIT incest best with atypical power relations? Or in LIT fantasyland, does it matter?

What is IMG Incest?


To your question about power relations, I would say, definitely yes, power relations in Lit incest stories are atypical. The author usually diminishes the power of the older partner and augments the power of the younger one, so a cocky assertive son will push himself on a more submissive and conflicted mom. That sort of thing. I don't imagine this is very common with 18-20 year old sons, but it's very common in the Lit incest universe.

 

[lovecraft68]

Anais Nin began her affair with her father after twenty three years of estrangement, when he was in failing health. But he still had the power. Letters with lines like "You are not only my daughter…you are two daughters, one by flesh and the other by spirit," demonstrated how he seduced his daughter using what some psychologists call the doppelganger theory- a method of making it seem like two people are deeply linked on a spiritual level. This often happens with minors, when the parent almost makes the child feel that their relationship is symbiotic, which explains why later those children will still relate to their abusive parent more than the one who stood by.

That's a solid case of GSA in effect right there.

 

[lovecraft68]

Having money in the mix probably has as much to do with that comment as any other element. Jealousy of, and bitterness toward people with wealth is rampant. The news cycle has been feeding it for decades.

The double standard still applies, though. Put a rich woman in the same story, and it won't draw the same amount of criticism.

Probably depends on how rich they are, too. I have one where he's reasonably well off. Owns a mid-sized ad business, some apartments, can afford to rent storage for a large RV, has a fairly large house, even though he lives alone. Doesn't seem to draw any ire.

There's a line between self-made, comfortable wealth, and those with enough to flaunt it. The closer you push toward Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous, the closer you get to Eat the Rich.

That's what made the comment more off kilter. the guy had been in the banking industry and I describe as being comfortable, but I never used the word wealth and didn't get into details like driving a Mercedes, wearing thousand dollar suits etc...Not like I was writing one of those crappy Billionaire tropes.

 

[lovecraft68]

What is IMG Incest?


To your question about power relations, I would say, definitely yes, power relations in Lit incest stories are atypical. The author usually diminishes the power of the older partner and augments the power of the younger one, so a cocky assertive son will push himself on a more submissive and conflicted mom. That sort of thing. I don't imagine this is very common with 18-20 year old sons, but it's very common in the Lit incest universe.

Nah, my sons are all 'fags' remember?

 

[Alice_Rosaleen]

That's a solid case of GSA in effect right there.

Joaquin Nin was an infamous womanizer who left Anais when she was ten, and only pursued a relationship with her again when he heard what a beautiful woman she'd become. He set out to seduce her before they even reunited, manipulating her deep need for a father figure for his own narcissistic satisfaction. Pretty sick stuff, but it would probably make for one hell of a Lit story.

 

[lovecraft68]

Joaquin Nin was an infamous womanizer who left Anais when she was ten, and only pursued a relationship with her again when he heard what a beautiful woman she'd become. He set out to seduce her before they even reunited, manipulating her deep need for a father figure for his own narcissistic satisfaction. Pretty sick stuff, but it would probably make for one hell of a Lit story.

Oh, it could work for sure, but that's GSA in a nutshell, when family members are separated for a long time and not raised in the familial bond, there is a high probability of sexual attraction.

 

[Alice_Rosaleen]

Oh, it could work for sure, but that's GSA in a nutshell, when family members are separated for a long time and not raised in the familial bond, there is a high probability of sexual attraction.

True, but that attraction usually occurs after they meet and tends to be more mutual- not cultivated from afar through letters beforehand on the part of the parent, who merely covets his daughter as a desirable object.

 

[lovecraft68]

True, but that attraction usually occurs after they meet and tends to be more mutual- not cultivated from afar through letters beforehand on the part of the parent, who merely covets his daughter as a desirable object.

Dad needed a swift kick in the nuts....my professional analysis.

That would be one of those 'train wreck' style stories, one that reminds the fantasy fun loving all is well taboo crowd here gets upset over because it reminds them how twisted it can be in real life.

 

[Alice_Rosaleen]

Dad needed a swift kick in the nuts....my professional analysis.

That would be one of those 'train wreck' style stories, one that reminds the fantasy fun loving all is well taboo crowd here gets upset over because it reminds them how twisted it can be in real life.

Right? I don't follow through with some of my darker stories not just because they won't be well received, but because they become too emotionally taxing on me to write. But I don't condemn them either. I saw a pretty effed up Japanese movie called Strange Circus about a twisted father/daughter/mother/cello case affair.
On a lighter note, I wonder how popular the brother/sister kink is in mainstream culture, like as an actual sexual practice. I'm writing a story and considering having the bro sis couple encounter a random couple while hiking, and that couple happened to hear the outdoor threeway they had the day before. I figure it will be the couple's secret kink and they assume it's the brother's and sister's too, not that they're actually related. Of course, the other couple could actually be related too.