Can we focus on the real problem here?

[KingOrfeo]

Russian operatives can be effective because they're willing to get their hands dirty and highly experienced in that (no Madison Avenue consultant, I hope, would have thought of hacking into the DNC's computers). But the point is not that they were more effective than professional consultants, or even effective at all in increasing Trump's votes or depressing Clinton's; the problem is that they tried, and seemed to make a pretty good effort, which means they probably will be able to learn from this experience and exercise somewhat more influence over the next election, which you know they're already planning for just like pols do. And that is a problem whether the Trump team was involved or not. (I strongly suspect they were, certainly there was some communication, but too many questions about its content yet remain unanswered to say for sure. Let the investigations continue.)

What can we do to keep the Russians' fingers out of our elections?

 

[rocket_surgery]

Nukes. Lots and lots of nukes.
Then after the radiation has dissipated, salt the ground so that nothing will ever grow there again.
After that more nukes.

It's the only way to be sure.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Nukes. Lots and lots of nukes.
Then after the radiation has dissipated, salt the ground so that nothing will ever grow there again.
After that more nukes.

It's the only way to be sure.

No, no, that's how you rid your house of termites. For Russians you set out poison.

 

[Colonel Hogan]

Russian operatives can be effective because they're willing to get their hands dirty and highly experienced in that (no Madison Avenue consultant, I hope, would have thought of hacking into the DNC's computers). But the point is not that they were more effective than professional consultants, or even effective at all in increasing Trump's votes or depressing Clinton's; the problem is that they tried, and seemed to make a pretty good effort, which means they probably will be able to learn from this experience and exercise somewhat more influence over the next election, which you know they're already planning for just like pols do. And that is a problem whether the Trump team was involved or not. (I strongly suspect they were, certainly there was some communication, but too many questions about its content yet remain unanswered to say for sure. Let the investigations continue.)

What can we do to keep the Russians' fingers out of our elections?

One way would be if you're a candidate or even remotely associated with a political campaign, don't engage in any underhanded tricks, like getting a journalist to pimp debate questions in advance so you can sandbag your opponent, and then share that information over an unsecured internet connection thus making it vulnerable to your eventual humiliation.

That would be my first suggestion to ANYONE running for office.

Similarly, any electronic voting or vote tabulation also needs to be secure.

Beyond that, there is no end to the extent of government or personal information any number of people would like to exploit. Voting information and systems may be among the LEAST critical when you really start thinking about the other stuff that can come back to bite us.

 

[KingOrfeo]

One way would be if you're a candidate or even remotely associated with a political campaign . . .

But, what can Congress do? (Assuming it would want to.)

 

[Hard_Rom]

If the US citizenry was not so fearful and distrustful of their governments foreign powers would have little ability to influence elections through mere innuendo and rumour mongering.

 

[Christobal]

Maybe if the US would stop interfering with other countries elections and propping up dictators maybe we could take the moral high ground.

Oh now we are surprised and outraged that someone did it to us.

Karma is a bitch. BTW this is not a new thing. For anyone.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Maybe if the US would stop interfering with other countries elections and propping up dictators maybe we could take the moral high ground.

But . . . but . . . American Exceptionalism!

 

[Christobal]

But . . . but . . . American Exceptionalism!

I actually believe in that. Look at that all things created that have spread across the world. Computer and cell phones come to mind.

These are the things that happen when free people have a space to operate in.

Screwing with other countries is another story

 

[Colonel Hogan]

But, what can Congress do? (Assuming it would want to.)

Practically speaking, I don't think there is a damn thing Congress could do.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

Stop doing it ourselves.

UN rules backed by automatic consequences thay can not be vetoed.

 

[Hard_Rom]

I actually believe in that. Look at that all things created that have spread across the world. Computer and cell phones come to mind.

These are the things that happen when free people have a space to operate in.

Screwing with other countries is another story

The British invented the computer. Another free people. Next time you zip up your pants or jacket thank Canada. Another free people. Iraqis invented writing when they were not quite that free and called Sumerians. Paper? The Chinese.

America may the most derivative culture in the world.

Il Donald wishes to do away with American exceptionalism

In a speech on the Syria crisis on September 10, 2013, Obama said: "however, when, with modest effort and risk, we can stop children from being gassed to death, and thereby make our kids safer over the long run, I believe we should act... That is what makes America different. That is what makes us exceptional." In a direct response the next day, Russian President Vladimir Putin published an op-ed in The New York Times, articulating that "It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation... We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord's blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal." Putin’s views were soon endorsed by future president Donald Trump who declared the op-ed “a masterpiece” to British television personality Piers Morgan: “You think of the term as being beautiful, but all of sudden you say, what if you’re in Germany or Japan or any one of 100 different countries? You are not going to like that term,” Trump said. “It is very insulting, and Putin put it to him about that.” Some left-wing American commentators agree with Trump’s stance; one example is Sherle Schwenninger, a co-founder of the New America Foundation, who in a 2016 Nation magazine symposium remarked that “Trump would redefine American exceptionalism by bringing an end to the neoliberal/neoconservative globalist project that Hillary Clinton and many Republicans support”.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism#Current_official_stance_and_its_detractors

American exceptionalism is more like American exemptionalism.

During the George W. Bush administration (2001–2009), the term was somewhat abstracted from its historical context. Proponents and opponents alike began using it to describe a phenomenon wherein certain political interests view the United States as being "above" or an "exception" to the law, specifically the Law of Nations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism#Exceptionalism_as_.22exemptionalism.22

 

[VaticanAssassin]

Suggesting Babbage and not Zuse invented the first computer is a reach at best.....

 

[Hard_Rom]

Suggesting Babbage and not Zuse invented the first computer is a reach at best.....

Charles Babbage, an English mechanical engineer and polymath, originated the concept of a programmable computer. Considered the "father of the computer", he conceptualized and invented the first mechanical computer in the early 19th century. After working on his revolutionary difference engine, designed to aid in navigational calculations, in 1833 he realized that a much more general design, an Analytical Engine, was possible. The input of programs and data was to be provided to the machine via punched cards, a method being used at the time to direct mechanical looms such as the Jacquard loom. For output, the machine would have a printer, a curve plotter and a bell. The machine would also be able to punch numbers onto cards to be read in later. The Engine incorporated an arithmetic logic unit, control flow in the form of conditional branching and loops, and integrated memory, making it the first design for a general-purpose computer that could be described in modern terms as Turing-complete.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer#First_computing_device

*he was just a century ahead of his time*

 

[VaticanAssassin]

Charles Babbage, an English mechanical engineer and polymath, originated the concept of a programmable computer. Considered the "father of the computer", he conceptualized and invented the first mechanical computer in the early 19th century. After working on his revolutionary difference engine, designed to aid in navigational calculations, in 1833 he realized that a much more general design, an Analytical Engine, was possible. The input of programs and data was to be provided to the machine via punched cards, a method being used at the time to direct mechanical looms such as the Jacquard loom. For output, the machine would have a printer, a curve plotter and a bell. The machine would also be able to punch numbers onto cards to be read in later. The Engine incorporated an arithmetic logic unit, control flow in the form of conditional branching and loops, and integrated memory, making it the first design for a general-purpose computer that could be described in modern terms as Turing-complete.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer#First_computing_device

*he was just a century ahead of his time*

I understand how some people believe that. But I say he invented the first calculator


"The Z1 was created by German Konrad Zuse in his parents' living room between 1936 and 1938. It is considered to be the first electro-mechanical binary programmable computer, and the first really functional modern computer."

 

[Ms_Ann]

So this is now a new thing?

 

[VaticanAssassin]

Double...

 

[KingOrfeo]

I actually believe in that. Look at that all things created that have spread across the world. Computer and cell phones come to mind.

Yeah, yeah, Americans invented computers and cell phones, while Chinese invented paper and gunpowder and the compass and the printing press without enjoying anything Americans would recognize as "freedom," which clearly is not prerequisite to progress or innovation.

 

[KingOrfeo]

So this is now a new thing?

Mostly. Stalin's influence on American elections was limited to what he could exercise through the Communist Party USA, which was still kindasorta respectable in the 1930s, but everyone knew what it was, and the American Socialist Party was implacably hostile to it, and no Soviet leader after Stalin had very much influence in America at all. This present Russian interference is subtler and more pernicious.

 

[TiredFingers]

What can we do to keep the Russians' fingers out of our elections?

Punish them at every turn.

It's time to go back to the Cold War. We won the first time because they don't have the financial resources necessary to sustain themselves without cooperation from the rest of the world. Buy nothing from them, sell nothing to them, and boycott any country that does business with them. Send our troops and weapon systems to NATO countries and other allies who border Russia to prevent them from invading, like they did in Crimea or The Eastern Ukraine.

Of course, we would have to deal with some of our own issues as well, to make the US as strong as it was in the last century. And I don't mean just increasing the size of our military. I mean dealing with our debt, our deficit, our infrastructure, etc. I am not a Trump fan, but I do believe in making America strong again.

 

[Christobal]

Yeah, yeah, Americans invented computers and cell phones, while Chinese invented paper and gunpowder and the compass and the printing press without enjoying anything Americans would recognize as "freedom," which clearly is not prerequisite to progress or innovation.

Um. America didn't even exist during the time frame you are talking about.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Um. America didn't even exist during the time frame you are talking about.

And the Chinese invented all those things in that period, without American examples to inspire them.

 

[OldJourno]

Um. America didn't even exist during the time frame you are talking about.

KO was wearing his Che T-shirt when the Chinese invented gunpowder.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

[voice-Tina Fey][volume=strident][tone=apprehensive]

I see Russia behind every Trump move!!!​

[/voice]


Democrats have lost their fucking collective mind and they are about to prove it in the Senate.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Mostly. Stalin's influence on American elections was limited to what he could exercise through the Communist Party USA, which was still kindasorta respectable in the 1930s, but everyone knew what it was, and the American Socialist Party was implacably hostile to it, and no Soviet leader after Stalin had very much influence in America at all. This present Russian interference is subtler and more pernicious.

Has clearly forgotten Walter Duranty of the NYT...





The voice of the Democrat Party.