phrodeau
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God made Adam and Eve, all the angels, cherubim and seraphim, so why did he have to knock up Mary?
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
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Rockymtnman
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Nope. Think again. Even that isn't original.
xfrodobagginsx
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Actually, the assertions of Horus are a bunch of lies. Most all of the assertions about Horus are not really true. The assertions made aren't really in the original writings. It's just some idiot who claims that they are true. If they really were true, it would be all over the news because Liberals want it to be true so badly. It's not. Here is the real truth:
From KingDavid8.com
EXPOSING THE MYTH OF HORUS:
Are there ACTUAL parallels between the Jesus and Horus stories?
Hardly. For those unfamiliar with the Horus story, Horus is a character in Egyptian mythology, the son of the gods Isis and Osiris. There actually appear to be multiple dieties named 'Horus', but the one who is the son of Isis and Osiris is the one the critics claim influenced the Jesus story. For a quick and unbiased debunking of this story, go to any search engine and find a site on Egyptian mythology and read the Horus story for yourself (I've provided some links at the bottom of the page), or check the mythology section at your local library (go ahead, I dare you!). Acharya S's book "The Christ Conspiracy" is the apparent source of this list, but the author provides evidentiarly footnotes for only five of the claims, and those footnotes frequently disagree with her own claims!
By the way, I had a discussion about this list with Acharya S, the author of the book "The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold". To view a text of our discussion, go to this site.
Here are the claims of parallels between Jesus and Horus, with my responses:
1) Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.
Let’s take this one apart and deal with each separate issue:
Horus’ mother was not a virgin. She was married to Osiris, and there is no reason to suppose she was abstinent after marriage. Horus was, per the story, miraculously conceived. Seth had killed and dismembered Osiris, then Isis put her husband's dead body back together and had intercourse with it. In some versions, she used a hand-made phallus since she wasn't able to find that part of her husband. So while it was a miraculous conception, it was not a virgin birth.
Horus was given three different birthdates in mythology, one of which does correspond to December 25th. But since Jesus wasn't, per the evidence, born on 12/25, this isn't a parallel.
"Meri" (technically "Mr-ee") is the egyptian word for "beloved" and was apparently applied to Isis prior to Jesus' time, as a title, not as part of her name. But since there were probably thousands of women between Horus' time and Jesus' with a name or title that was a variation on "Mary", there's no real reason to suppose that Jesus' mother was named after Isis in particular. Even if, hypothetically, the Gospel authors themselves fabricated Jesus' mother and decided to name her "Mary", it's far more likely that they named her after other women from around their time named "Mary" than it is that they named her after "Isis-Meri"
Horus was born in a swamp, not a cave/manger. Acharya's footnotes for this point only make the claim that Jesus was born in a cave, and say nothing about Horus being born in one.
Horus' birth was not announced by a star in the east
There were no “three wise men” at Horus’ birth, or at Jesus’ for that matter (the Bible never gives the number of wise men, and they showed up at Jesus’ home, not at the manger, probably when Jesus was a year or two old).
Acharya's source for the last two claims appears to be Massey, who says "the Star in the East that arose to announce the birth of the babe (Jesus) was Orion, which is therefore called the star of Horus. That was once the star of the three kings; for the 'three kings' is still a name of three stars in Orion's belt . . . " Massey's apparently getting mixed up, and then the critics are misinterpreting it. Orion is not a star, but a constellation, of which there are three stars in a row making up the belt of Orion. However, there is no evidence that these three stars were called the "Three Kings" prior to Jesus' time, nor even prior to the 19th century, for that matter.
And even if there is a specific star called 'the star of Horus', there's no legend stating that it announced Horus' birth (as the critics are claiming) or that the three stars in Orion's belt attended Horus' birth in any way.
2) His earthly father was named "Seb" ("Joseph").
First of all, there is no parallel between the Egyptian name “Seb” and the Hebrew name “Joseph”, other than the fact that they’re common names. Also, Seb was Osiris’ father, not Horus’.
3) He was of royal descent.
This one’s true! But it's not really a comparison to Jesus. When followers speak of Jesus being of 'royal descent', they usually mean His being a descendent of King David, an earthly king. Horus was, according to the myth, descended from heavenly royalty (as Jesus was), being the son of the main god.
4) At age 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized, having disappeared for 18 years.
He never taught in any temple and was never baptized. Also, Jesus didn't 'disappear' in the years between His teaching in the temple and baptism. He worked humbly as a carpenter.
5) Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana (Jordan) by "Anup the Baptizer" ("John the Baptist"), who was decapitated.
Again, Horus was never baptized. There is no “Anup the Baptizer” in the story.
6) He had 12 disciples, two of whom were his "witnesses" and were named "Anup" and "Aan" (the two "Johns").
Horus had four disciples (called ‘Heru-Shemsu’). There’s another reference to sixteen followers, and a group of followers called ‘mesnui’ (blacksmiths) who join Horus in battle, but are never numbered. But there’s no reference to twelve followers or any of them being named “Anup” or “Aan”.
7) He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus ("El-Osiris"), from the dead.
He did perform miracles, but he never exorcised demons or raised his father from the dead. Also, Osiris is never referred to as ‘El-Azarus’ or ‘El-Osiris’ (clearly an attempt to make his name more closely resemble the Bible’s “Lazarus”).
8) Horus walked on water.
No, he did not.
9) His personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father." He was thus called "Holy Child."
Horus was never referred to as “Iusa” (nor was anyone in Egyptian history - the word does not exist) or “Holy Child”.
10) He delivered a "Sermon on the Mount" and his followers recounted the "Sayings of Iusa."
Horus never delivered such a sermon, and, as pointed out above, he was never referred to as “Iusa”.
11) Horus was transfigured on the Mount.
No, he was not.
12) He was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and resurrected.
Horus was never crucified. There’s an unofficial story in which he dies and is cast in pieces into the water, then later fished out by a crocodile at Isis’ request. This unofficial story is the only one in which he dies at all.
13) He was also the "Way, the Truth, the Light," "Messiah," "God’s Anointed Son," the "Son of Man," the "Good Shepherd," the "Lamb of God," the "Word made flesh," the "Word of Truth," etc.
The only titles Horus is given are “Great God”, “Chief of the Powers”, “Master of Heaven”, and “Avenger of His Father”. None of the above titles are in any Egyptian mythology.
14) He was "the Fisher" and was associated with the Fish ("Ichthys"), Lamb and Lion.
He was never referred to as “the fisher”, and there are no lamb or lion in any of the stories. Acharya S.'s footnotes on this claim only show an association with fish (which is that Horus WAS a fish, unlike Jesus), with no evidence of his being called 'the fisher' or having any association with a lamb or lion.
15) He came to fulfill the Law.
There was no “law” he was supposed to fulfill.
16) Horus was called "the KRST," or "Anointed One."
He was never referred to by either of these titles. "Krst", in Egyptian, means "burial", by the way. It wasn't a title.
17) Like Jesus, "Horus was supposed to reign one thousand years."
No mention of this in Egyptian mythology.
Links:
Encyclopedia Mythica: Horus
Egyptian Mythology: Horus
The Eye Of Horus
Horus: He Who Is Above
Tektonics: Horus, Isis, Osiris
Egyptian Book of the Dead
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Tryharder62
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Does it matter why?
phrodeau
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Sure it does. God claims He made everything that ever was in only six days. Every galaxy, every asteroid, every lake, every tree, every scarab beetle, every rhinovirus, every grain of sand and every species of parrot. But when it comes to making a guy He can possess and control to minister to a few hundred middle-eastern Jews, suddenly He needs a woman's help?
Three engineers were discussing theology. (Yeah, like that ever happens.) All were of course agreed that God is an engineer, but disagreed as to His field of specialty.
The mechanical engineer said, "God must be a mechanical engineer, because His greatest creation is the human being, which is the most splendidly and elegantly complex machine in the universe."
The electrical engineer said, "But what distinguishes the human being from the animals is the human brain and nervous system, which is analogous to an electrical system. Therefore, God must be an electrical engineer."
The mechanical engineer said, "You're both wrong. God must be a civil engineer, because who else but a civil engineer would run a wastewater treatment line directly through a recreational area?"
The mechanical engineer said, "God must be a mechanical engineer, because His greatest creation is the human being, which is the most splendidly and elegantly complex machine in the universe."
The electrical engineer said, "But what distinguishes the human being from the animals is the human brain and nervous system, which is analogous to an electrical system. Therefore, God must be an electrical engineer."
The mechanical engineer said, "You're both wrong. God must be a civil engineer, because who else but a civil engineer would run a wastewater treatment line directly through a recreational area?"
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Tryharder62
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This is just my opinion, but he doesn't possess and control Jesus. Jesus is part of him. He could have done it anyway he wanted to. For those that follow Jesus as a divine being, what better way to show the world that he is indeed all man as well. He was born. He grew up. He had struggles. He suffered. He understands. He died. Just my thoughts.
If Jesus had the healing power, did he ever suffer acne or hemorrhoids or ingrown toenails?
Tryharder62
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A mother was preparing pancakes for her sons, Kevin, 5, Ryan, 3. The boys began to argue over who would get the first pancake. Their mother saw the opportunity for a moral lesson. "If Jesus were sitting here, He would say 'Let my brother have the first pancake, I can wait.'
Kevin turned to his younger brother and said, "Okay Ryan, you be Jesus!"
xfrodobagginsx
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He didn't need her, but He used her to procreate a man who is fully man and fully God at the same time.
A delegation of scientists came to see God and told Him He should retire.
"Why?" said God.
The scientists' spokesman said "Because we don't need You any more. Science has advanced so far that we can do anything You can do. We can even make a man. We'll prove it. We'll challenge you to a man-making contest right now."
"Well," God said, "I'm an old-fashioned guy, and if we do this, we'll have to do it the old-fashioned way -- starting with nothing but dirt."
The scientists went into a huddle for a few minutes, then the spokesman said, "All right, we can handle that!" He bent down to scoop up a handful of dirt.
"Oh, no! Oh, no!" said God. "You have to get your own dirt!"
"Why?" said God.
The scientists' spokesman said "Because we don't need You any more. Science has advanced so far that we can do anything You can do. We can even make a man. We'll prove it. We'll challenge you to a man-making contest right now."
"Well," God said, "I'm an old-fashioned guy, and if we do this, we'll have to do it the old-fashioned way -- starting with nothing but dirt."
The scientists went into a huddle for a few minutes, then the spokesman said, "All right, we can handle that!" He bent down to scoop up a handful of dirt.
"Oh, no! Oh, no!" said God. "You have to get your own dirt!"
EternalFantasy
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So what do you guys do when a thread loses it's luster?
Cry like a little girl.
EternalFantasy
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Tryharder62
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I've been on threads like this for 5 years. It was one of the first things I did. Phrodeau and Kingorfeo know their stuff. They have studied this area for as long or longer than me. They know their bible. We just disagree. Look at it like adversaries that started out in a debate but decided to go out for coffee afterward. It hasn't weakened my faith but made it stronger. I've gotten to talk with some great people and learned a lot because I bothered to really listen.
Tryharder62
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Also, it is very laid back right now without anyone calling me a harlot and a wanna be!
Also, it is very laid back right now without anyone calling me a harlot and a wanna be!
Don't worry about it, Jesus likes harlots.
EternalFantasy
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Oh my Lady.. They may have obsessed with the Bible, but 'know' their stuff on it, I wouldn't go that far.
Tryharder62
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Listen, you spend any time on this type of thread with Phrodaeu he will ask you questions that you've never even heard of. I just got to know Kingorfeo this round. He's the same. No, they don't know the bible like we do because we embrace it. I believe with my whole being, but I am sad. My opinion is that Christians better start getting in gear. If we want to have intelligent conversations with intelligent people we better step it up a notch. Notice they don't just argue the bible they can converse intelligently about a lot of other faiths as well.
Tryharder62
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Hard_Rom
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Stronger argument for Christianity than anything the OP has posted.
Tryharder62
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Then there is you!!!
LOL. How are you? I saw a picture earlier today that makes me think your avatar is a very important symbol to you. I tried briefly to find it but couldn't. Can you share or is it too personal? Just wondered. By the way, it didn't look like old news. I am hoping I am not asking a naive question and it's a symbol everyone should know. I am on lit too much today. I have a bum knee. Had an x-ray but won't, of course, get the results until next week. Should be laying low this weekend.
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Super-Surprise
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Tryharder62
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I'm getting closer to looking like this......that's just the way it is.
http://wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/blogs/theanchoress/files/2013/09/church-lady1.jpg
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