xfrodobagginsx
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Christianity came from Christ. Christ also is the one who instituted Judaism. He was the great I AM on Mt. Sinai that spoke with Moses and gave the 10 commandments.
How To Get To Heaven When You Die
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Christianity came from Christ. Christ also is the one who instituted Judaism. He was the great I AM on Mt. Sinai that spoke with Moses and gave the 10 commandments.
phrodeau
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You really have to tie some logical pretzels to make that jibe with the Nativity.
No, it most certainly did not, as any good Jew will tell you.
No, from Paul, not from Christ.
Tryharder62
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I am talking about his earthy ministry fulfilling the old testimony prophecy. I am not talking about the Trinity. John 1:1
No disrespect to my Jewish friends. It is only how I interpreted the evidence. That is the cool thing. Even those who say bull to the evidenice can have their own opinion. We can still be friends.
ishtat
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Jesus said "I come to teach the law" the Jewish law - The Talmud.
He never expressed a single original religious idea - he got all his ideas from the great Jewish teacher Hillel. Which was commendable, Hillel was a great Jewish thinker.
JC's treatment of the Greek woman at Smyrna indicates clearly his priority.
"I come not to teach the dogs under the table, but the children of Israel" - (the Jews)
And don't try to dispute that quote with me using bowdlerized late translations like the authorized version. Get the 1st century Greek edition - the above is an accurate translation, later altered by the Catholic church because it showed JC in a very poor light
JC would have been horrified by Paul's perversion of his teaching. The teaching of James the brother of Jesus was far more faithful to his views.
He never expressed a single original religious idea - he got all his ideas from the great Jewish teacher Hillel. Which was commendable, Hillel was a great Jewish thinker.
JC's treatment of the Greek woman at Smyrna indicates clearly his priority.
"I come not to teach the dogs under the table, but the children of Israel" - (the Jews)
And don't try to dispute that quote with me using bowdlerized late translations like the authorized version. Get the 1st century Greek edition - the above is an accurate translation, later altered by the Catholic church because it showed JC in a very poor light
JC would have been horrified by Paul's perversion of his teaching. The teaching of James the brother of Jesus was far more faithful to his views.
Tryharder62
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That would be true, because he wasn't meant to originate anything but to complete it.
He makes that statement to the disciples but something in his intonation causes the disciples to get her and bring her in. Not to make her go away. She gets full access to Jesus. His message is that something needs to be done first. (My thought - If I asked you ishat to come and feed my child for me and you got to my house and there was my child and my dog-that I love too-who are you going to feed first? My child or my dog. I love them both, but I told you to feed my child.)
Nevertheless, he listens to her and is moved by her powerful faith and her request. He grants it. Sounds compassionate to me.
The story seems to suggest that Jesus is not infallible -- i.e., he can be moved to change his mind. And if that were not so, what would be the point of prayer?
Tryharder62
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I can see where it would seem that way. I could blow smoke up your butt, but even Christians argue about this.
The truth is I could stay on this thread forever and never be able to answer all the questions about the Christian faith. Like I said before, I couldn't answer it without any doubt but beyond a reasonable doubt when I made my decision.
For me I looked at all the evidence, and was so moved, that I was willing to believe it was true beyond a reasonable doubt. The same as in how we try cases in court.
You still have to have a measure of faith. Can't get away from it. It does give me comfort, so is it a crutch? I don't know. It has sure helped me in a lot of ways.
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The doctrinal, theological message of Christianity -- what Christians are supposed to believe, the nature of Christ in relation to the Father, whether salvation can come through works as well as faith, whether we have free will or predestination -- is complicated. It is complicated enough to have given rise to many varying interpretations, heresies, schisms, even wars.
But the moral message of Christianity -- what Christians are supposed to do -- is simple, isn't it? Love God, love your neighbor -- your neighbor being anybody and everybody who is not you. That's not easy, but it is simple. And there is no third thing. Just deal with everybody as if you love them, and no one can fairly call you a bad Christian.
Tryharder62
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Nothing that is worthwhile is easy. Thanks for the thought provoking post. It is interesting and so true. From reading your posts I see that you are interested in this topic and know and have studied the whole area. What decision have you made about the whole thing up to this point? I would say you are an atheist or agnostic, but I may be wrong. It's been known to happen.
Back to you this morning KingOrfeo
Back to you this morning KingOrfeo
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Nothing that is worthwhile is easy. Thanks for the thought provoking post. It is interesting and so true. From reading your posts I see that you are interested in this topic and know and have studied the whole area. What decision have you made about the whole thing up to this point? I would say you are an atheist or agnostic, but I may be wrong. It's been known to happen.
I'm atheist/agnostic. Extraordinary claims -- such as the existence of an omnipotent being -- require extraordinary proof, and here I know of no proof at all. Scientifically there is none -- no one has yet invented a theoscope -- and all the purely logical/philosophical proofs of natural theology are flawed. I was raised a Unitarian Universalist, and to the extent I have any spiritual tendencies at all, I incline to neopaganism, I just like it better. Also, the Church of the SubGenius is way cool.
Tryharder62
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Church of the SubGenius pffft! lol Could you get on that theoscope idea? You are an original though. I usually get that people are from the FSM church. The church of the flying spaghetti monster.
Well I better go accomplish something on my day off.Praise "Bob"!
Tryharder62
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Ahhhhhh that is where that came from.
EternalFantasy
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ishtat
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Not to me. He behaved like an asshole and only changed when guilted into it. Similarly he treated his mother like a piece of shit at Cana.
Now to me the fact that JC behaved like an asshole makes him more human. He was a man and not perfect. The notion of perfection is a later construct of the early church.
And JC would have been horrified by Paul's perversion of Rabbiniacal teaching
Tryharder62
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We disagree then.
Tryharder62
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What????? Really???
(I edited this because I couldn't get half of my joke to show. Trust me though, you should be laughing):
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xfrodobagginsx
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No, I just know the Bible. God told Moses on Mt. Sinai that His name was I AM.
Joh 8:57 Then the Jews said to Him, You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came into being, I AM!
phrodeau
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Ask yourself why a biographer would include stories like those, or tell them in that way.
Tryharder62
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It's not the stories, but how they are interpreted. The biographer has no control over how a story is interpreted. It's how you can lay out the facts for 9/11 and some people will say it's a terrorist act and some will say it was a government conspiracy. Look at all the theories now for Kennedy's assassination. It grows as the event distances in time and more and more people put their 2 cents in about it. It's the nature of humanity.
I'm Popeye the Sailor Man
I'm Popeye the Sailor Man
I yam what I yam
And that's all that I yam
I'm Popeye the Sailor Man! [toot-toot!]
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