Cruel and unusual

[MeekMe]

Punishments

I came across a profile today of a young man that identifies as a dominant. He listed some punishments that he would give but he also said he "is a kind dom" before listing them. The domly dude wrote that he wouldn't do physical punishments but felt that emotional punishments were the right way to go. The punishments he listed were:

1. Have his pyl destroy her own collar. He said it would be like physically destroying their connection.

2. Have his pyl hold a sign that says "I was and am trash and I don't deserve my PYL" and she would have to look at herself in the mirror while holding it.

3. He would ignore her for extended periods of time.

He later wrote he would be extremely cruel with the emotional punishment if she got on his bad side but resorting to physical punishment was still not something he would do (because he's kind or some shit).

I don't actually care about the dude that wrote those, but the idea he seemed to set forth was that he "is a kind dom " because he gives emotional punishment instead of physical punishment. I think his idea of punishment is way worse than physical punishment and couldn't help but think he was anything but kind based on the listed ideas. I know though, that there are probably people out there that would think his ideas are right for them, so I'm curious now.

Maybe you have a punishment system, maybe you don't. Do you think one or the other is ok or wrong (for you)? Is there a balance? Anything to add?

 

[SissySalina]

Cruel or Unusal

To be well balanced a dom should be both. :caning: sissy has an agreement with Her and anything goes as long as no permanent marking results, punishment is left up to Her entirely. From experience when you take away the senses you open up a great big world for the mind to fill in and sometimes that is worse than anything else.
So mind games should be a part for it to be complete.

 

[Eva_Star]

There were more emotional type punishments in the beginning of my relationship (a loooong time ago). Emotional type punishments have no place in our lives now (for reasons). I do not like emotional games. It does not work for me. You can whip me, cane me, paddle me, torture me with orgasms, etc...I'll take it. You ignore me or put me down...fuck you.

But this is just me and our dynamic...what is horible for me may be just the thing for others. Though I do think that maybe the poster has an interesting take on the word "kind". *shrugs*

 

[MidnightRyder1a]

Destroying her collar is to me, an absolute "No". that is more that a sign of marking a sub as yours. It's a symbol of first a dom, offering to care as well as discipline a sub, but also the sub's willingness to accept that care, love and discipline. It's a symbol of trust between the two, so never, ever destroy it. Threaten to remove it, or to have them take it off at most. But always have it there as the symbol that it is.

Psychological discipline, can do far more damage than it can do good. So it must be used with care. because you cannot always see what damage you might be doing that is not repairable.

 

[_Necrosomantic_]

Maybe you have a punishment system, maybe you don't. Do you think one or the other is ok or wrong (for you)? Is there a balance? Anything to add?

..." Kind "... I see.

Well, I suppose those that are psychologically abusive pieces of shit have to use some type of logic to justify being an emotional parasite, but calling it kindness borders on pathology... Which makes sense.

The things listed by that person, that's not punishment, that's abuse. Malicious abuse at that. Withholding affection and destroying what is supposed to be an intimate symbol between two people, is the kind of thing someone with severe emotional issues would do to someone. The kind of person that's not even stable enough to be put in charge of an ant farm.

To me, punishment comes after discipline, and that shouldn't happen often, nor should it be something that scars someone. I'm not doing it in anger, and I'm not doing it because I want to, I'm doing it because I'm disappointed and you're going to take it because you want to prove that you are sorry. I don't plan it out, we cross that bridge when we get there, not something I ever look forward to. Sincerity, there is no sincerity in the things described there, only spite and more than a little hate. Points for advertising with big red flags though, at least no one will stumble into that blindly.

So here's to hoping the author, being such a kind guy and all, does the world a kindness, and goes out and finds a curb to bite,
and waits until the kindest of cement trucks drives by.

 

[ToPleaseHim]

I would not stay in that relationship.

 

[HisArpy]

He's not a Dom. He's a loser, plain and simple. He's trying to cover up his personal and emotional failings with big talk.

A good Dom doesn't harm anyone, emotionally or physically. This doesn't mean there can't be tears or punishment or discipline. It means you don't HURT someone and then call it love or caring or whatever the hell that asshole calls it.

Domestic abuse is domestic abuse. My advice to anyone in a similar situation: Run like hell and don't look back. There are too many good partners out there. You aren't lonely enough or desperate enough to want to be stuck with someone like this guy.

 

[Blue]

I know there's a handful of upstanding people who are just into demanding those things as a fetish, but I'm also sure that there are malicious narcissists who do the same things but purely for ego stroking and to facilitate their self aggrandizement needs.

I think the author in question is probably the latter by how he (probably in total seriousness) considers it somehow more morally acceptable than physical 'punishment', something a "nice" dom would do. He's framing it in a way that doesn't appear to be to be Christian Grey-esque kayfabe, but in a way that makes me think he doesn't actually understand the emotional impact those actions can have, which in my mind speaks to how well he's able to empathize with people and the personality that follows that...

 

[MeekMe]

I thought there might be too much focus on the dude. I think he's kind of an idiot, but I know there are people out there that would think his idea of punishment is acceptable ( I read a lot of shit and come across a lot of things I wish I had brain bleach for). I don't think it's a good idea, but people are going to do what they want. In my opinion, all forms of punishment between adults is silly. But the question really was about one being more of something than the other. Physical punishment like spanking or emotional like the silent treatment as examples.

I used his examples because it was there and it was so bizarre to me that I had to really think to myself about whether one form was somehow worse than the other. To me, most punishment is no good. But the questions were about what was more acceptable to you, physical or mental/emotional punishments?

 

[Collar_N_Cuffs]

I agree that there can be room for both in a relationship. We (most of us) exercise both physical and emotional control in all relationships, sexual and non sexual. It's not too very different from "punching" your friend in the shoulder one day in reaction to something, and then putting off responding to their text the next day when you could reply sooner. It's physical and emotional, it's just not a good idea to go down one path or the other exclusively in my opinion, or to take either path to the extreme.

And Consilience's comment regarding the deuchebag referenced in the OP not understanding the impact of their actions is pretty spot on. This can happen in response to either physical or emotional control tactics though, especially if one does not know their audience. Ok, hell, even when you do know your audience it can be tough to judge where the line is.

I think it's a bit like putting the cart before the horse to talk about what type of punishments will be handed out before a relationship even begins, but at least he has enabled perspective takers to see exactly what they are dealing with, which in my opinion is better than saying one thing and doing another.

/meander

 

[Spartygrl13]

Punishments

I came across a profile today of a young man that identifies as a dominant. He listed some punishments that he would give but he also said he "is a kind dom" before listing them. The domly dude wrote that he wouldn't do physical punishments but felt that emotional punishments were the right way to go. The punishments he listed were:

1. Have his pyl destroy her own collar. He said it would be like physically destroying their connection.

2. Have his pyl hold a sign that says "I was and am trash and I don't deserve my PYL" and she would have to look at herself in the mirror while holding it.

3. He would ignore her for extended periods of time.

He later wrote he would be extremely cruel with the emotional punishment if she got on his bad side but resorting to physical punishment was still not something he would do (because he's kind or some shit).

I don't actually care about the dude that wrote those, but the idea he seemed to set forth was that he "is a kind dom " because he gives emotional punishment instead of physical punishment. I think his idea of punishment is way worse than physical punishment and couldn't help but think he was anything but kind based on the listed ideas. I know though, that there are probably people out there that would think his ideas are right for them, so I'm curious now.

Maybe you have a punishment system, maybe you don't. Do you think one or the other is ok or wrong (for you) ........

 

[Spartygrl13]

There were more emotional type punishments in the beginning of my relationship (a loooong time ago). Emotional type punishments have no place in our lives now (for reasons). I do not like emotional games. It does not work for me. You can whip me, cane me, paddle me, torture me with orgasms, etc...I'll take it. You ignore me or put me down...fuck you.

But this is just me and our dynamic...what is horible for me may be just the thing for others. Though I do think that maybe the poster has an interesting take on the word "kind". *shrugs*

I can take being ignored to a point & a time period but that might break Me. Long periods of silence would Confuse....

 

[SpunThings]

Punishment isn't generally a very good method of behavior modification. Shame also isn't a very good element to introduce to a healthy relationship. Ruining someone's self esteem in the name of punishment is just spiteful.

Honestly, if you don't believe someone is sincerely sorry when approached about a transgression, why are you still with them? You don't need punishment. Just find people who want to follow your rules, and correct mistakes. (Using the general "you" here, not addressing anyone specific).

The only time I've seen punishment make sense in a D/s context is for a pyl who struggles with forgiving themselves. It's a way to physically represent repentence, and then they are encouraged to let it go. For some, that's not necessary.

That isn't very "nice".

 

[SpunThings]

I won't do punishment. I do what I say I'm going to do, and if I don't I apologize and try to make it right. Then I work to make sure it doesn't happen again.

I want this relationship to succeed too, so I need to do my part.

 

[cookiecat]

A D/s relationship, for me, includes punishment. Some form of accountability. At times, it could seem silly. But I'm not the greatest at follow through and I look to my partner to fill in the blanks or hold my feet to the fire. I'm not a thoughtless woman or a selfish princess or a martyred housewife who needs a spanking to set my mind right.

Punishment is simply (for me) a different way to approach a problem. 99.9% of the time problems are addressed by talking it over and moving on. I've written before about the remaining .01% of the times I was held accountable in a different manner (punishment).

Emotional punishment is worse. It fuck with self esteem if not used gently, carefully. Physical (again, I'm only speaking for myself) hurts for a while but goes away. The emotional fuckery sticks in my head for a longer time and tends to twist my psyche up.

Physical is more effective. We deal with the issue, perhaps a few tears are shed, we talk about what happened, probably smooch some and then move on.

 

[LucyBee01]

Punishment isn't generally a very good method of behavior modification. Shame also isn't a very good element to introduce to a healthy relationship. Ruining someone's self esteem in the name of punishment is just spiteful.

Honestly, if you don't believe someone is sincerely sorry when approached about a transgression, why are you still with them? You don't need punishment. Just find people who want to follow your rules, and correct mistakes. (Using the general "you" here, not addressing anyone specific).

The only time I've seen punishment make sense in a D/s context is for a pyl who struggles with forgiving themselves. It's a way to physically represent repentence, and then they are encouraged to let it go. For some, that's not necessary.

That isn't very "nice".

This reminds me of a previous bad relationship where, when I said sorry I was not believed. That hurt a lot. I had to somehow prove that I was actually sorry without knowing what I could do that would meet with approval. It was very upsetting.

However, regarding punishments, I think they can have a place in a D/s relationship and of course what they are and how they are used is going to be different in each one.

I handle physical punishments better. It is over quickly, all is forgiven and there will be cuddles It is usually a hard spanking.
Emotional/mental type punishments affect me more and are rarely used. I think maybe only twice (put in the corner and ignored for a while) and I agreed I deserved them. Again forgiveness and cuddles followed. And lessons learnt!

 

[James1324]

Punishments

I came across a profile today of a young man that identifies as a dominant. He listed some punishments that he would give but he also said he "is a kind dom" before listing them. The domly dude wrote that he wouldn't do physical punishments but felt that emotional punishments were the right way to go. The punishments he listed were:

1. Have his pyl destroy her own collar. He said it would be like physically destroying their connection.

2. Have his pyl hold a sign that says "I was and am trash and I don't deserve my PYL" and she would have to look at herself in the mirror while holding it.

3. He would ignore her for extended periods of time.

He later wrote he would be extremely cruel with the emotional punishment if she got on his bad side but resorting to physical punishment was still not something he would do (because he's kind or some shit).

I don't actually care about the dude that wrote those, but the idea he seemed to set forth was that he "is a kind dom " because he gives emotional punishment instead of physical punishment. I think his idea of punishment is way worse than physical punishment and couldn't help but think he was anything but kind based on the listed ideas. I know though, that there are probably people out there that would think his ideas are right for them, so I'm curious now.

Maybe you have a punishment system, maybe you don't. Do you think one or the other is ok or wrong (for you)? Is there a balance? Anything to add?

Like anything, if there's an agreement between both parties then I guess it's okay. If he just started doing this kind of thing out of the blue, then that's a problem.

Punishments are a funny one. For me, if the sub fails to do what I'd like them to do so often that I need to punish them for it, then I have to question whether we're really on the same page. Then again, I know that some people find that kind of power play very exciting, so to each their own.

 

[aFairy]

to me.. he sounds like a bully. not a dom.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[MeekMe]

So many saying he is straight up abusive. How about those of you that do punishment and humiliation is apart of it? Isn't humiliation a form of psychological punishment? Couldn't that be quite damaging? I've seen several posters explain humiliating punishments that were physical but caused them a great deal of stress mentally. No one ever commented on those instances as being abusive.

 

[Nezhul]

wow. I can't imagine ever going it to someone. Seriously, if my sub was into the whole collaring thing, I would much rather paint her ass black and blue with hard cane strokes, than get her to destroy her collar.
Not that I would ever do either.

He's not a kind dom. Being averted to physical punishment is not kindnes. In fact, the worst bullying is most often emotional than physical, so yeah.

In my mind, he is a very cruel person. Not kind at all. And he doesn't care or does not understand the submentality at all, so he either even more cruel for that, or just stupid.

As the ending to my thoughts I would say that I believe there still MAY be submissive for whom this kind of torture would work best, rub just the right way. But I still believe it is a very crummy thing to do.

Also, I don't understand. So you get her to destroy her collar. Then what? She goes collar-less after that? Or you get her a new collar? But that's cheap, right? It undermines the value of the whole thing to a point that a collar is nothing special at all, just an accessory. Why would a sane dom want that?
If I had a submissive who is collared, I would go to great lengths so as to make her collar unique, literally irreplaceable thing. The thing nor she not I want (and are able) to replace.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Nezhul]

So many saying he is straight up abusive. How about those of you that do punishment and humiliation is apart of it? Isn't humiliation a form of psychological punishment? Couldn't that be quite damaging? I've seen several posters explain humiliating punishments that were physical but caused them a great deal of stress mentally. No one ever commented on those instances as being abusive.

Every punishment is a gig, you should understand that. Both physical, emotional and things like humiliation (which is another type of emotional, really).

The interesting thing about BDSM relationships (at least the good ones) is that punishment always serves a purpose for BOTH parties. It is not just a mechanism for dominant to get back on the sub who somehow did wrong. No.

It is just as well an instrument for the sub to realize his/her submissive needs. You may be hurt really badly during punishment. But in the end of the day you still get off on if not the process than the result. You get to feel excited and submissive for being punished. You get to feel excited about the changes in your behavior that the punishment brought. Excited about being owned, forced, losing control - whatever. There's literally hundreds types of things that a submissive can get off on.

I never personally did humiliation play, but I can place myself in the shoes of both such sub and such dom. While being humiliated is, well, humiliating, while it brings all sorts of negative emotions - for some it also brings in excitement.

Take the simplest example - the sub is required to go topless around the block. Humiliating? Yes. Shameful? Yes. Will she do it out of her own free will? No. But at the same time she gets turned on by exhibitionism, even if she doesn't have the courage to do it on her own. Her dominant essentially helps her realize the dream, while at the same time making her experience a lot of emotional discomfort in the process. Can it be punishment? Definitely, but it can be pleasing all the same.

Subtler example will leave her hating the experience, but it's the same deal when something is caned to tears and further. The experience is essentially traumatic, but it's the underlying stuff that the sub enjoys.

p.s. Also what I find a lot of submissives are excited about is often not the process, but the achievement. The "Hell yeah, I did it!" feeling. The feeling that you pushed yourself one step further than ever before. It's like bungee jumping, I guess. Scary and essentially stressful, but oh so gratifying when you get to feel yourself above all your friends who never had the guts.
Again, literally hundreds of sorts of excitement.

 

[Nezhul]

And I will also quickly add that I think no dom who does the punishment as a sort of revenge, when he just tries to make the sub hurting - is ever worthwhile.

I kinda resent those dominants. It's like they forget the borders between sexual play and life. You never take revenge as a sort of BDSM play. And the "In-play" offences (like breaking some rules) are never as bad as to really make someone suffer this badly, so I guess he did it to get revenge on some out-of-kink fight or disagreement. That's sick.

Hell, I wouldn't even go for sexual spanking if we had a fight earlier this day and I still felt on edge and resentful somehow. I sometimes can hold grudges, although I know it's bad.

 

[cookiecat]

So many saying he is straight up abusive. How about those of you that do punishment and humiliation is apart of it? Isn't humiliation a form of psychological punishment? Couldn't that be quite damaging? I've seen several posters explain humiliating punishments that were physical but caused them a great deal of stress mentally. No one ever commented on those instances as being abusive.

It depends. Kind of a lame answer. It depends on the person, the relationship, what we've agreed on, the aftercare.

I don't know why but this seems like an online Dom. There are only so many ways you can punish a person online and it just has that feel. She's doing all the work. He says he won't do physical punishment because he can't. These kinds of relationships worry me.

This is a huge assumption on my part; I realize that's not good.

Either way - yes, humiliation can be psychological punishment, if it's used as punishment. For example, being stuck in a corner with my pants pulled down mid-thigh and "lazy cow" written on my butt because I didn't do something makes me feel small and stupid. I hate that stuff. Is it abusive? No. For me - no.

Humiliation - again, for me (I feel the need to keep writing that disclaimer) - is something that generally makes me pretty wet. Facing something shameful or embarrassing with someone who makes me face that shame while rubbing my clit is - for me - amazing. Some sort of odd behavioral therapy.

However, that's something I would only do with a trusted partner. Something we've discussed at length and perhaps even negotiated boundaries.

I'm not sure about physical punishment that caused stress mentally. I'm in the camp where a punishment fits my crime (so to speak) and we move on. It washes my slate clean. Sometimes I get to cry, howl, scream my frustrations out and then we're done.

When is humiliation / punishment abusive? When it's done without consent. When you don't know the receiver's history. When there isn't communication before, during and after.