Curious about LW

[NotWise]

I haven't read much in LW. I've read a little and I've read a lot of commentary about LW and it leaves me baffled.

Normally I expect that the LW readers are mostly male misogynists with no concept of how a relationship usually works. That is, if the relationship doesn't work then you get out of it. Done. There's No BTB or RAAC.

Now lets throw in real-life complications like children. How do you carry out BTB when the kids are watching?

Are the LW stories just an outlet for misogynists to vent their hatred? I actually find most of what I've read on LW to be pretty repellent.

 

[Jay321]

If I understand it correctly, its a black hole full of trolls and anonymous downvoters. I plan to avoid that section like the plague ridden hell hole that it rumored to be.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

I wrote a story for it early on in my writing here; great response - men who wanted to kill the wife and the author and women who loved it.

Visitors

 

[GoldenCojones]

I haven't read much in LW. I've read a little and I've read a lot of commentary about LW and it leaves me baffled.

Normally I expect that the LW readers are mostly male misogynists with no concept of how a relationship usually works. That is, if the relationship doesn't work then you get out of it. Done. There's No BTB or RAAC.

Now lets throw in real-life complications like children. How do you carry out BTB when the kids are watching?

Are the LW stories just an outlet for misogynists to vent their hatred? I actually find most of what I've read on LW to be pretty repellent.

I suspect this is at least a little tongue-in-cheek, but I'll chime in anyway.

We all say there are two camps in LW. I've even said it. And from a certain perspective it's mostly true. However reality is more complex than that.

I think there are some male misogynist readers who go there to get a kind of masochistic thrill and then satisfy their sadistic needs by spewing hate and imagining they are destroying writers with their illiterate drivel comments. And there are some writers who write stories to feed those trolls.

Then there are the romantics who want the reconciliation, the renewal of love, the happy ending where everyone lives happily ever after. They feel cheated by writers who don't deliver and retaliate by delivering scathing remarks that they imagine hurt the writer like they were hurt when they didn't get their happy ending. And there are writers who write stories for this group as well.

Those two groups are the most vocal and most venomous when a story does not meet their criteria.

But there are also some men and maybe women who truly have a fetish for unfaithful women. These are the ones who give positive feedback, often through email rather than risk the torching to be had in the comments section. They are the true fans of LW. They get what LW is and means and enjoy good LW stories, but they like I said, they tend to avoid the comments section because, well, who needs that shit in their life, right? And there are writers who write for this group and don't really give a flying fuck about the other two groups. I have kind of lumped the cuckold and slut wife people into a single group here, but they really are two different fetishes.

I write LW and Group Sex stories. I don't view myself as a mysogynist and I don't believe I use my stories to vent any hatred of women. I do like strong willed, sexually liberated women and most of my main female characters fit this description to one degree or another.

As for the repellent story thing, well I find incest pretty repellent, personally, and erotic horror is exactly the opposite of erotic to me, but if you are in to that, more power to you. I don't think that liking incest stories makes you a bad person. I don't think writing incest stories makes you a bad person. And I have never gone into either the incest or erotic horror sections because, why would I?

If you find the idea of a woman having sex with someone other than her husband to be repellent, yea you. Stay out of LW and read some other section more to your liking.

 

[handysr]

never mind

 

[NOIRTRASH]

TV and movies are fulla murders and war, and few are offended.

I suspect the angst is about most people's demand for Cosmic Justice. Generally speaking, if a woman can do better than you she's gone. Women don't award participation trophies to losers.

 

[NaokoSmith]

Now lets throw in real-life complications like children. How do you carry out BTB when the kids are watching?

I think in LW the kids are just props for the story. They can ramp it up a bit: how could you do that, when we have this little blue-eyed innocent child whom you should have been thinking about, you unnatural mother. They are part of the means of exacting total vengeance: I am not only going to burn the house to the ground so in the divorce settlement you get half of some ashes [because of course we never bothered to take out house insurance], I am going to go off with a younger, more beautiful woman who sucks dick and I am going to take our child with me to somewhere neither you nor the law can find us.

You could think about this two ways.

1. This is just a story, the author is entitled to use children in the story in ways that make the story line come across better just the same as any other characters.
2. [Some of the] guys who write/read this material are self-centred and selfish and care more about getting revenge for the big bruise on their ego than they do about women or children.

I have come across guys in Real Life who have pursued children in failed relationships and made their lives miserable, apparently solely in an attempt to get back at the mother. In fact in one case I know of, it was the guy who went off with another woman. It seems very weird but he absolutely refused to be reasonable although the mother was willing to let him take the child for visits and come round to help with homework. He took the mother to court, not for visiting rights but for residency - which is bonkers, he could never have hoped to get that unless he proved gross negligence. He went round to the house and caused such a disturbance that the police had to be called in - that looked good when it was brought up in court against him! The case was under review by the children's agency and at first they were hostile to the mother, assuming she was a sl@g who was trying to get back at the father, but after a bit they twigged. They said the father should write to the child once a fortnight for a while, then they could go back to court and see about him having supervised visiting rights, and it would go from there.

The father never writes to the poor kid, and last Christmas he didn't send any presents. He spends his time on Facebook instead, slagging off women who deny their children's dad the right to see them. Sometimes he complains to the Prime Minister about it in tweets. He often fails to send his maintenance money properly and even if any money does come from him, it's not usually enough to buy the kid a pair of shoes. The mother has found them both a house, fed them, clothed them, paid for holidays and school clubs and everything else on her own - although she has very little money and is in poor health. She puts the money he sends aside for the child for later on in life, so she can say: that is what your Dad gave you, no more, no less; and the Dad can't claim he has contributed megabucks to this poor kid's life.

I expect he would be an avid LW fan.

I often contrast his case to the Fella. When we separated we were not married, so he didn't have to split everything with me - we only had to split the value of our jointly owned house. He was very fair and shared an inheritance he had just received with me. That was what allowed me to buy a home for myself - and his child, although to be fair to the Fella he probably was thinking that I deserved it after ten years of sacrificing my career to support him in the relationship, rather than of making sure Piglet got well housed. He is scrupulous with his maintenance money, always making sure I get it in good time and the right amount. When he got promotion, he let me know his salary was higher and he would be giving me a bit more immediately.

We are both able to be reasonable about the money and discuss it openly together.. Eg., the Fella has just taken Piglet on an expensive course which we agreed should be paid for out of her maintenance. I think that money is for both of us to spend on her, not just for me. Probably we both end up contributing extra towards her, although I have about a tenth of the salary the Fella does so I expect he pays out a bit more than I do. We trust each other too much to bother to figure it out.

The Fella would find LW stories incomprehensible. He would much rather curl up with a good collection of academic articles on youth crime prevention

 

[DeYaKen]

I haven't read much in LW. I've read a little and I've read a lot of commentary about LW and it leaves me baffled.

Normally I expect that the LW readers are mostly male misogynists with no concept of how a relationship usually works. That is, if the relationship doesn't work then you get out of it. Done. There's No BTB or RAAC.

Now lets throw in real-life complications like children. How do you carry out BTB when the kids are watching?

Are the LW stories just an outlet for misogynists to vent their hatred? I actually find most of what I've read on LW to be pretty repellent.

The thing about LW is that the readership is diverse but they all seem to think that only their chosen type deserves to be in the category.

You have those who get off on the idea of watching their wives have sex with other men. For them, any story that suggests that such a lifestyle is not the norm will be heavily criticised.

Then you have those who go for the male sub story. They dream of being humiliated and made to serve a dominatrix.

Then you have the divorced men who thought that they got burned by their wives and want to read stories where the protagonist does all the things the wished they'd been able to do to theirs. For them reading BTB stories is a form of therapy.

Finally, you have those who like to read about emotional turmoil as long as it all comes out alright in the end.

As I said the problem is, each of those reader types think LW should be exclusively their territory. They will attack the author of any story that doesn't fit their chosen genre.

I've written stories for LW and both myself and my protagonist have been branded as a pussy whipped wimp. and a misogynist for the same story. Yeah, you have to have a thick skin to write for LW.

 

[lovecraft68]

Are the LW stories just an outlet for misogynists to vent their hatred? I actually find most of what I've read on LW to be pretty repellent.

Several years ago, no this wasn't true. Back then there were actually stories that had love and even some doomed romance in them.

Now its become exactly what you said a large group of hate filled scorned men cheering the torture, rape, death, forced prostitution and everything else against the wife and all manner of torture and dismemberment against the wife's lover.

They abuse and spew hate at any RAAC story because no man should ever take back his wife and abuse any story where the husband willingly goes along what the wife does.

There's that old expression Hell Hath no fury etc...the men in that category multiply that times ten. Whether they have all been cheated on at some point or are just hateful trolls who have found a sandbox filled with other hateful trolls who knows?

But its like an MRA meeting there and I have nothing but contempt for those readers and for the BTB authors there.

Making matters worse is as others can attest, they are spreading out and are slinging their hate in mature and fetish and any category where there may be a story where the man is doing anything but saying "On your knees bitch" or the woman is anything but a drooling cum dumpster who 'lives to serve'

I have yet to get one comment from one of these tough guys that was not anonymous. Or a private one that had an e-mail to reply to, hence my contempt.

You're so tough and so bad ass, you can't even use a handle which is still essentially anonymous? You need that extra blanket of 'anon' to hide behind.

Course they do because they're not just trolls and misogynists, but in real life gutless cowards who most likely are cucked by their woman and been bullied and picked on their entire lives.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

LW seems to be the place you go when you want lots of readership, largely from the people you wouldn't want in your readership. If you like your fruit cheap, mixed, plentiful and slightly rotten, it's probably the place to be.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

My new incest story is taking a beating (but getting lotsa favorites) because the mom in the story services young men with her husbands approval. The son is a young army vet hurt in a helicopter crash. Ma bathes him and falls for his cock.

Its LW flavor isn't welcome at Incest. There it better be widows and orphans.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

I read a new style LW story last night.

In it Ma marries a woman and the new wife gets an itch for Sonny. They talk about it and Ma agrees the wife and Sonny should get together. Then Ma wants some of Sonny. And at the end Ma moves Sonny to her bed, and the wife moves to Sonnys room.

 

[lovecraft68]

My new incest story is taking a beating (but getting lotsa favorites) because the mom in the story services young men with her husbands approval. The son is a young army vet hurt in a helicopter crash. Ma bathes him and falls for his cock.

Its LW flavor isn't welcome at Incest. There it better be widows and orphans.

That's the point I'm making. These sad little twerps are all over the site looking for stories where the woman is 'cheating' even with hubs approval.

They're bringing the site down and causing authors and readers alike to say fuck it and not bother coming back.

I've added it to my bucket list to meet an LW troll in person and ask them to repeat, very slowly, all those threats of rape and violence they post.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I have written many LW story. Some early on received high scores over time. Then came the BTB group. You know they were men who hate women for one thing or another. That's when I turned off comments and voting, except on a select few of my stories in LW.

I have written a couple of late...last year...but again they can't comment or vote. I like to think of them reading the story or at least as much of it to determine what kind of story it is, and going to vote their 1-bomb and spew their hated for women in a unintelligent comment and can't.

Anyway, I write LW for myself.

Although the ones I have up at Smashwords do pretty good. I don't have a lot of comments over there, but the few I do have are positive.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

That's the point I'm making. These sad little twerps are all over the site looking for stories where the woman is 'cheating' even with hubs approval.

They're bringing the site down and causing authors and readers alike to say fuck it and not bother coming back.

I've added it to my bucket list to meet an LW troll in person and ask them to repeat, very slowly, all those threats of rape and violence they post.

In my mind its all fiction, because it is. To my way of thinking murder oughta offend all but it doesn't, murder is okay here and everywhere.

Locally a 60 something woman murdered her new born in a brutal fashion. Her dead husband froze his sperm and she has 3 babies and she's 62. She killed one of them. I could post that here or anywhere.

 

[lovecraft68]

In my mind its all fiction, because it is. To my way of thinking murder oughta offend all but it doesn't, murder is okay here and everywhere.

Locally a 60 something woman murdered her new born in a brutal fashion. Her dead husband froze his sperm and she has 3 babies and she's 62. She killed one of them. I could post that here or anywhere.

Truth is always scarier than fiction.

 

[lovecraft68]

I have written many LW story. Some early on received high scores over time. Then came the BTB group. You know they were men who hate women for one thing or another. That's when I turned off comments and voting, except on a select few of my stories in LW.

I have written a couple of late...last year...but again they can't comment or vote. I like to think of them reading the story or at least as much of it to determine what kind of story it is, and going to vote their 1-bomb and spew their hated for women in a unintelligent comment and can't.

Anyway, I write LW for myself.

Although the ones I have up at Smashwords do pretty good. I don't have a lot of comments over there, but the few I do have are positive.

The cuck fetish in the pay market sells very well. Those must be the men who love it. Here we have the men who hate it. That and the average LW troll can't afford an e-book because they don't have jobs.

 

[Selq]

I haven't read much in LW. I've read a little and I've read a lot of commentary about LW and it leaves me baffled.

Normally I expect that the LW readers are mostly male misogynists with no concept of how a relationship usually works. That is, if the relationship doesn't work then you get out of it. Done. There's No BTB or RAAC.

Now lets throw in real-life complications like children. How do you carry out BTB when the kids are watching?

Are the LW stories just an outlet for misogynists to vent their hatred? I actually find most of what I've read on LW to be pretty repellent.

You seem to be asking an honest question, so I'll try to honestly answer it.

We, all of us, talk about three major subgroups within LW, and though true, it barely scratches the surface of what LW really is.

I have been reading Lit for years, and LW almost as long. What LW really is, is a combination of most, if not all, categories of Lit. With the only requirement seeming to be a couple together at some point during the story. And yes, I did say couple, they do not necessarily have to be married. (Some of my favs were not)

I have read Romance, Incest, Lesbian and Gay, Erotic Horror, BDSM (both Male and Female dominant), Group, SciFi/Fantasy, Interracial (both black man/white woman and black woman/white man), Non-erotic, Transgender, and let's not forget erotic couplings. That's just off the top of my head, from stories that I've read. And all of these stories are in LW.

When you have this range of stories within a single category, you are going to have a lot of animosity across the board from all sides. Then, you throw in the anonytrolls that are going to one bomb every story and post hate-filled rants, no matter where the story goes, and you end up with a place that makes the cantina in Star Wars seem like a Sunday Social.

Now, with all of that being said, the commenters with ID's on Lit mostly stay to the stories they enjoy (except with new writers because we are learning what they write) and don't bother the writers or readers of other types of LW stories. The anonytrolls, on the other hand, will show up at any and every story that allows anonymous comments and spew their hate-filled speech and one bomb the stories.

Sadly, the only way to combat this seems to be to not allow anonymous comments, thus punishing the anonymous that are not trolls along with the anonytrolls. It does seem to work, though.

Loving Wives is a miniature version of Lit, without the categories to separate everyone.

What that means for writers is that if you come into LW, you are going to be judged significantly harder than anywhere else on the site, your scores will be lower than if you posted elsewhere, and you are going to catch a lot of flak no matter what you do write (and yes, this includes the btb writers).

On the other hand, you will know that if you have a highly rated, non-btb, story you definitely wrote a damn good story, you will receive comments that are made to help you improve as a writer (I have noticed many of the best LW writers are starting to comment more), and that the people who enjoy your stories will defend you against the haters with everything they have (LW readers are rabid, there is no denying that).

Most of the readers in LW are not misogynistic, unlike popular belief (except for the trolls, they are most definitely misogynists), But we do know what we like, and are not afraid to point out to a writer if there are major inconsistencies within the world they create with their stories. And it's not done out of hate or jealousy, but because there is something in your writing that drew us in, and we want you to be the best writer you can be and improve your craft, thus making even better stories for us readers.

Loving Wives is a scary place for writers, and I never fault a writer for avoiding it. I see what goes on there on a daily basis, and I completely understand why writers avoid it. But, I also enjoy the new writers coming in (of which, we've had quite a few in the past few months) and I look forward to reading their stories and watching them grow as writers.

I hope that I helped you to understand LW better.

Damn, I'm long-winded today.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

The cuck fetish in the pay market sells very well. Those must be the men who love it. Here we have the men who hate it. That and the average LW troll can't afford an e-book because they don't have jobs.

CUCK is like war movies. All of us luv the violence and destruction, and few wanna enlist. I identify with Sergeant Rock Hard in both scenarios, NOT the loser enemy.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

You seem to be asking an honest question, so I'll try to honestly answer it.

We, all of us, talk about three major subgroups within LW, and though true, it barely scratches the surface of what LW really is.

I have been reading Lit for years, and LW almost as long. What LW really is, is a combination of most, if not all, categories of Lit. With the only requirement seeming to be a couple together at some point during the story. And yes, I did say couple, they do not necessarily have to be married. (Some of my favs were not)

I have read Romance, Incest, Lesbian and Gay, Erotic Horror, BDSM (both Male and Female dominant), Group, SciFi/Fantasy, Interracial (both black man/white woman and black woman/white man), Non-erotic, Transgender, and let's not forget erotic couplings. That's just off the top of my head, from stories that I've read. And all of these stories are in LW.

When you have this range of stories within a single category, you are going to have a lot of animosity across the board from all sides. Then, you throw in the anonytrolls that are going to one bomb every story and post hate-filled rants, no matter where the story goes, and you end up with a place that makes the cantina in Star Wars seem like a Sunday Social.

Now, with all of that being said, the commenters with ID's on Lit mostly stay to the stories they enjoy (except with new writers because we are learning what they write) and don't bother the writers or readers of other types of LW stories. The anonytrolls, on the other hand, will show up at any and every story that allows anonymous comments and spew their hate-filled speech and one bomb the stories.

Sadly, the only way to combat this seems to be to not allow anonymous comments, thus punishing the anonymous that are not trolls along with the anonytrolls. It does seem to work, though.

Loving Wives is a miniature version of Lit, without the categories to separate everyone.

What that means for writers is that if you come into LW, you are going to be judged significantly harder than anywhere else on the site, your scores will be lower than if you posted elsewhere, and you are going to catch a lot of flak no matter what you do write (and yes, this includes the btb writers).

On the other hand, you will know that if you have a highly rated, non-btb, story you definitely wrote a damn good story, you will receive comments that are made to help you improve as a writer (I have noticed many of the best LW writers are starting to comment more), and that the people who enjoy your stories will defend you against the haters with everything they have (LW readers are rabid, there is no denying that).

Most of the readers in LW are not misogynistic, unlike popular belief (except for the trolls, they are most definitely misogynists), But we do know what we like, and are not afraid to point out to a writer if there are major inconsistencies within the world they create with their stories. And it's not done out of hate or jealousy, but because there is something in your writing that drew us in, and we want you to be the best writer you can be and improve your craft, thus making even better stories for us readers.

Loving Wives is a scary place for writers, and I never fault a writer for avoiding it. I see what goes on there on a daily basis, and I completely understand why writers avoid it. But, I also enjoy the new writers coming in (of which, we've had quite a few in the past few months) and I look forward to reading their stories and watching them grow as writers.

I hope that I helped you to understand LW better.

Damn, I'm long-winded today.

I luv LW but my whole life I've always moved to the sound of the guns. I love the energy and chaos and danger. I started playing with married girls when I was 18. LW is like the gladiator arena.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

....Damn, I'm long-winded today.

But to summarise what you said, it's a melting pot with little to define it, except the fans there are a pack of rabid animals.

So what's the point?

I know there's none for me, which is why I don't read or write there. I'm just vaguely agog that anyone does. I mean, my opinion of incest is well enough known but even I can see how it would appeal to people who need the thrill of breaking taboos and want to live in their mother's bedroom instead of her basement or something. But LW doesn't even have that going for it. BTB and RAAC are two sides of the same badly minted coin, but putting them into the same category is just asking for trouble, and when you mix in all the rest...

Yeah, just another entry in the file of "Things I guess I'm glad I do not understand about Literotica." Y'all have fun. Pray Lit never gets hacked because you're playing with the psychotic in there.

 

[GoldenCojones]

You seem to be asking an honest question, so I'll try to honestly answer it.

We, all of us, talk about three major subgroups within LW, and though true, it barely scratches the surface of what LW really is.


...

Most of the readers in LW are not misogynistic, unlike popular belief (except for the trolls, they are most definitely misogynists), But we do know what we like, and are not afraid to point out to a writer if there are major inconsistencies within the world they create with their stories. And it's not done out of hate or jealousy, but because there is something in your writing that drew us in, and we want you to be the best writer you can be and improve your craft, thus making even better stories for us readers.

Loving Wives is a scary place for writers, and I never fault a writer for avoiding it. I see what goes on there on a daily basis, and I completely understand why writers avoid it. But, I also enjoy the new writers coming in (of which, we've had quite a few in the past few months) and I look forward to reading their stories and watching them grow as writers.

I hope that I helped you to understand LW better.

Damn, I'm long-winded today.

Amen to everything you said! I truly believe that the trolls are in the minority of readers in LW, they are just the loudest. When I put up a new story in LW I get several emails a week for a while. The emails are generally well written, well thought out comments on the story. Most of them are over-all positive but some are pretty negative, but well written and there is a lot there to help me improve.

Comments in the comments section are not usually very helpful. The trolls rant and attack anyone who leaves a comment that isn't hate filled. But after reading these comments for a while I've come to realize there are probably less than 20 or so people making all these comments. You can tell, even though they are posted anonymously, when the same person writes multiple comments across stories.

The point I'd like to make is we need to not fall into the trap of letting 20 idiots make us believe that "All" or even "Most" LW readers and writers are crappy human beings. We're not.

Right now that minority is making LW uncomfortable for some and that is a shame. It worries me that they may not be getting enough of a thrill at bullying LW writers so now they are spreading out. I hope someone smarter than me comes up with a solution to this problem.

 

[Selq]

I luv LW but my whole life I've always moved to the sound of the guns. I love the energy and chaos and danger. I started playing with married girls when I was 18. LW is like the gladiator arena.

Maybe that's why I keep going in and reading LW, there is a definite gladiator feel to the section.

 

[Selq]

Amen to everything you said! I truly believe that the trolls are in the minority of readers in LW, they are just the loudest. When I put up a new story in LW I get several emails a week for a while. The emails are generally well written, well thought out comments on the story. Most of them are over-all positive but some are pretty negative, but well written and there is a lot there to help me improve.

Comments in the comments section are not usually very helpful. The trolls rant and attack anyone who leaves a comment that isn't hate filled. But after reading these comments for a while I've come to realize there are probably less than 20 or so people making all these comments. You can tell, even though they are posted anonymously, when the same person writes multiple comments across stories.

The point I'd like to make is we need to not fall into the trap of letting 20 idiots make us believe that "All" or even "Most" LW readers and writers are crappy human beings. We're not.

Right now that minority is making LW uncomfortable for some and that is a shame. It worries me that they may not be getting enough of a thrill at bullying LW writers so now they are spreading out. I hope someone smarter than me comes up with a solution to this problem.

I think the trolls are starting to expand into other categories for two reasons:
1) The writers that allow anonymous comments have proven to not be bothered by the vitriol,
2) Some writers are just not allowing anonymous comments, so the trolls can't vent.

It worries me, also, to see the trolls going into other categories. At least in the LW, the writers are expecting it and have learned how to handle it.

 

[FEELINGLUCKYPUNK]

Maybe that's why I keep going in and reading LW, there is a definite gladiator feel to the section.

LW is TV WRESTLING HEAVEN