San Bernadino

[Hard_Rom]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/mass-shooting-san-bernardino-california-1.3347432

San Bernardino shooting: 1 suspect shot and another at large
Officer injured during pursuit of gunmen

One suspected gunman has been shot, another is being "dealt with" by police and a third may be at large following a shooting at facility for people with developmental disabilities in San Bernardino, Calif., that left 14 people dead and at least 17 injured.

 

[Hard_Rom]

This whole thing is just sad. No matter what your politics families are still crying and lives have been lost. SMH Doesn't matter what race, color, religion or country you live in. People were murdered today. SMH. Something is horribly wrong in this country. There have been to many of these incidents to just be coincidence or random. There is some disconnect that is being missed. Weather it be a fail in the mental health system or terrorist groups.

It's the guns! Everybody bitches and moans, hates or disagrees with. In a civilized society you air your differences in a civilized forum. Gangbangers resort to the gun over the smallest of issues. Mentally ill take out their delusions on those who they think have wronged them. Nutbars with an axe to grind shoot down anyone who disagrees with them.

Take away the guns. Doesn't solve all the problems of mental health and political militancy but it sure as fuck cuts down on the body count.

 

[snugglestruggle]

Most of those are antidepressants. More than half of the population is on them.
There's no medication there that would indicate a serious mental illness that could (in certain cases) make them prone to violence.

Millions may be on these drugs and are ok but there is a small number of people in which these drugs may have contributed or did cause some patients to become violent and suicidal.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the 45 nut jobs I listed earlier were on some kind of anti depressant, a majority of whom were either taking Paxil, Zoloft or Prozac or a combo of more than 1.

The results were similar for Zoloft and Prozac. links below.


Side effects PAXIL
http://www.drugs.com/sfx/paxil-side-effects.html

Psychiatric

Antidepressants may have a role in inducing worsening of depression and the emergence of suicidality in certain patients during the early phases of treatment. An increased risk of suicidal thinking and behavior in children, adolescents, and young adults (aged 18 to 24 years) with major depressive disorder (MDD) and other psychiatric disorders has been reported with short-term use of antidepressant drugs.

Adult and pediatric patients receiving antidepressants for MDD, as well as for psychiatric and nonpsychiatric indications, have reported symptoms that may be precursors to emerging suicidality, including anxiety, agitation, panic attacks, insomnia, irritability, hostility, aggressiveness, impulsivity, akathisia, hypomania, and mania. Causality has not been established.[Ref]

Very common (10% or more): Anxiety, insomnia, nervousness
Common (1% to 10%): Abnormal dreams, disturbance in attention, emotional lability, feeling abnormal, restlessness, sleep disorder, tension, thinking abnormal
Uncommon (0.1% to 1%): Akathisia, apathy, bruxism, depersonalization, elevated mood, euphoria, hostility, intentional overdose, manic reaction, neurosis, paranoid reaction, personality disorder, psychomotor hyperactivity, psychosis, suicide attempt
Rare (less than 0.1%): Agitation, antisocial reaction, delusions, hallucinations, hypomania, intentional injury, mania, panic attacks, stupor
Frequency not reported: Dysphemia, suicidal thoughts and behavior
Postmarketing reports: Confusion, violent behaviors[Ref]

Nervous system

Very common (10% or more): Dizziness, headache, somnolence, tremor
Common (1% to 10%): Amnesia, paresthesia, taste perversion
Uncommon (0.1% to 1%): Abnormal gait, acute brain syndrome, ataxia, balance disorder, CNS depression, CNS stimulation, dyskinesia, hyperkinesia, hypesthesia, hypertonia, incoordination, migraine, myoclonus, neuralgia, neuropathy, seizures, syncope, vascular headache

Rare (0.01% to 0.1%): Abnormal EEG, cerebral embolism, cerebral ischemia, circumoral paresthesia, convulsion, decreased reflexes, dysarthria, dystonia, extrapyramidal syndrome, foot drop, hyperesthesia, neuritis, paralysis, taste loss
Very rare (less than 0.01%): Serotonin syndrome (neuroleptic malignant syndrome-like effects)
Postmarketing reports: Cerebrovascular accident, memory impairment, movement disorders, oculogyric crisis, tardive dyskinesia[Ref]


Potentially life-threatening serotonin syndrome has been reported with SSRIs and SNRIs as monotherapy, but particularly with concomitant use of other serotonergic drugs and drugs that impair the metabolism of serotonin.

A number of case reports have implicated fluoxetine in causing seizures. Twelve of 6000 patients experienced convulsions during pre-marketing testing.

A case of dose-dependent exacerbation of preexisting, mild restless legs syndrome (which ultimately required discontinuation of fluoxetine) has been reported.[Ref]

http://www.drugs.com/sfx/zoloft-side-effects.html

http://www.drugs.com/sfx/prozac-side-effects.html

 

[RobDownSouth]

Guns don't kill people, Paxil does!
#DerpDerpDerp

 

[Misshotndeep]

Millions may be on these drugs and are ok but there is a small number of people in which these drugs may have contributed or did cause some patients to become violent and suicidal.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the 45 nut jobs I listed earlier were on some kind of anti depressant, a majority of whom were either taking Paxil, Zoloft or Prozac or a combo of more than 1.

The results were similar for Zoloft and Prozac. links below.


Side effects PAXIL
http://www.drugs.com/sfx/paxil-side-effects.html

Psychiatric

Antidepressants may have a role in inducing worsening of depression and the emergence of suicidality in certain patients during the early phases of treatment. An increased risk of suicidal thinking and behavior in children, adolescents, and young adults (aged 18 to 24 years) with major depressive disorder (MDD) and other psychiatric disorders has been reported with short-term use of antidepressant drugs.

Adult and pediatric patients receiving antidepressants for MDD, as well as for psychiatric and nonpsychiatric indications, have reported symptoms that may be precursors to emerging suicidality, including anxiety, agitation, panic attacks, insomnia, irritability, hostility, aggressiveness, impulsivity, akathisia, hypomania, and mania. Causality has not been established.[Ref]

Very common (10% or more): Anxiety, insomnia, nervousness
Common (1% to 10%): Abnormal dreams, disturbance in attention, emotional lability, feeling abnormal, restlessness, sleep disorder, tension, thinking abnormal
Uncommon (0.1% to 1%): Akathisia, apathy, bruxism, depersonalization, elevated mood, euphoria, hostility, intentional overdose, manic reaction, neurosis, paranoid reaction, personality disorder, psychomotor hyperactivity, psychosis, suicide attempt
Rare (less than 0.1%): Agitation, antisocial reaction, delusions, hallucinations, hypomania, intentional injury, mania, panic attacks, stupor
Frequency not reported: Dysphemia, suicidal thoughts and behavior
Postmarketing reports: Confusion, violent behaviors[Ref]

Nervous system

Very common (10% or more): Dizziness, headache, somnolence, tremor
Common (1% to 10%): Amnesia, paresthesia, taste perversion
Uncommon (0.1% to 1%): Abnormal gait, acute brain syndrome, ataxia, balance disorder, CNS depression, CNS stimulation, dyskinesia, hyperkinesia, hypesthesia, hypertonia, incoordination, migraine, myoclonus, neuralgia, neuropathy, seizures, syncope, vascular headache

Rare (0.01% to 0.1%): Abnormal EEG, cerebral embolism, cerebral ischemia, circumoral paresthesia, convulsion, decreased reflexes, dysarthria, dystonia, extrapyramidal syndrome, foot drop, hyperesthesia, neuritis, paralysis, taste loss
Very rare (less than 0.01%): Serotonin syndrome (neuroleptic malignant syndrome-like effects)
Postmarketing reports: Cerebrovascular accident, memory impairment, movement disorders, oculogyric crisis, tardive dyskinesia[Ref]


Potentially life-threatening serotonin syndrome has been reported with SSRIs and SNRIs as monotherapy, but particularly with concomitant use of other serotonergic drugs and drugs that impair the metabolism of serotonin.

A number of case reports have implicated fluoxetine in causing seizures. Twelve of 6000 patients experienced convulsions during pre-marketing testing.

A case of dose-dependent exacerbation of preexisting, mild restless legs syndrome (which ultimately required discontinuation of fluoxetine) has been reported.[Ref]

http://www.drugs.com/sfx/zoloft-side-effects.html

http://www.drugs.com/sfx/prozac-side-effects.html

Or it could just be they all suffered from the same kinda psychosis. Zoloft is a pretty soft core drug as far as the mental illness is concerned. Not nearly as many side effects as a lot of others. And those side effects list are formed in an interesting way. If anyone on during the trial of the drug had any effects at all they are listed. Runny noes, cracking joints, Sleepyness.. Anything can be listed and they may or may not have anything to do with the drug. They teach you that in most basic medical programs.

 

[Hard_Rom]

Guns don't kill people, Paxil does!
#DerpDerpDerp

Who has more money? Pharma or gun makers.

Pharma wins!

Guns kill people.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Who has more money? Pharma or gun makers.

Pharma wins!

Guns kill people.

True, but the "Paxil Defense" was a novel deflection.

So often the RWCJ uses the same trite talking points, it's a breath of fresh air to see some new derp.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Nothing has gone awry. We're just American, ain't it neat?


A) Stop pretending we give a fuck. It's Wednesday and I swear to God if they cancelled Arrow someone will die.

B) Start taking a hard look at our gun laws up and and including the 2nd Amendment.

Seriously folks that tree of liberty feeds on blood you don't get to live in the shade and bitch about the sprinkler system.

Pretty much...

It's the guns!

Take away the guns. Doesn't solve all the problems of mental health and political militancy but it sure as fuck cuts down on the body count.

Only problem with that is unless you get 2/3 to legally shit can 2A (LOL not happening) it would almost assuredly destroy this country as we currently understand it's existence. The entire south would totally fuckin' revolt and they would have almost all of the military's support.

IF you did get 2/3 and legally repealed 2A, it might, MIGHT not start a civil war....small isolated armed insurrections would not be uncommon largely in the south and states might still give the US the finger.

SOOOOOOoooo.....back in reality, taking guns from Americans is simply an absurd notion. The very notion of licencing sends guns and ammo flying off shelves and total unification of the RW against anything that might be productive concerning the topic of gun regulations. And until things get so fucking bad that the GOP starts to cave to the idea of gun control this is just the way shit is going to be in the USA.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I think it's less absurd than you're making it out to be. To absurd to be worth it? Yes bu tI don't think the military would whole sale jump ship. Not all of us are hardcore Righties.

Besides as I recall a fair amount of us are sufficiently rules as written guys that they'd understand that a 2/3rds vote to overturn the Constitution would make anybody against it a traitor. Which regardless of right or wrong would still be the truth. If Obama made close friends with Kilgrave (Go watch Jessica Jones) and got 2/3rds of the US to vote to replace the 1st amendment, outlaw Christianity and replace it with Obamanism! (It's like Communism and Islam with Black Supremacy) you'd still be a traitor for not defending the Constitution. Now in that extreme a case I think the fall off would be higher but still.

 

[snugglestruggle]

Or it could just be they all suffered from the same kinda psychosis. Zoloft is a pretty soft core drug as far as the mental illness is concerned. Not nearly as many side effects as a lot of others. And those side effects list are formed in an interesting way. If anyone on during the trial of the drug had any effects at all they are listed. Runny noes, cracking joints, Sleepyness.. Anything can be listed and they may or may not have anything to do with the drug. They teach you that in most basic medical programs.

I'm not saying it isn't safe for a majority of users. If it wasn't we'd have been seeing a much higher volume of mass shootings and suicides.

Even the drug companies admit there are cases which uncommon side effects occur. or the majority it could be fine but for a small minority of user's it could be a contributing factor if not the cause.

I find it hilarious that people on here are always railing about the drug companies not caring and being greedy, yet they are willing to dismiss the possibility that their drug companies products could be contributing to the problem.

Rare or very rare side effects does not mean Never.

45 incidents , 43 confirmed on "safe anti depressants" but hey that's a coincidence right?

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Just ban the manufacture, sale and possession of ammunition and reloading supplies. Let'em keep their guns, but they won't go bang-bang no more.

 

[Oh_That_Guy]

Nobody is going to take any guns. Same shit different shooting.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

The shooters are Muslims

 

[Hard_Rom]

Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the UK do just fine with strict gun laws and a society which abhors gun "rights". All Five Eyes and cousin countries. It would work. All it takes is the guts and political will to do it.

It would work! Take away the guns and the body count will plummet. A couple of generations of media emphasizing Guns Bad and problem solved.

What is more important your Bog given 2nd amendment right or the life of one innocent child? That is the question each American has to ask themselves.

All your friends and relatives look down on you over this issue. You are laughed at and ridiculed. You look weak and uncivilized. You can either do some something to help yourselves or go on a shooting rampage like mentally ill, gangstas or righty militia nutbars. Your choice!

 

[Eyereadtoo]

Farooq Said.

Maybe the spelling is off but that's the name that came over the police scanner.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

Just ban the manufacture, sale and possession of ammunition and reloading supplies. Let'em keep their guns, but they won't go bang-bang no more.

Yes. Because making something illegal always removes it from the streets!


But with every stupid statement like this and the empty rhetoric of the administration the values of my guns go up.

I will sell a few in the next month or two and buy twice as many and or better ones in six months, when the overreaction dies down.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Farooq Said.

Maybe the spelling is off but that's the name that came over the police scanner.

That's the name I got.

 

[Hard_Rom]

http://ktla.com/on-air/live-streaming/

Press release real close.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I'm not saying it isn't safe for a majority of users. If it wasn't we'd have been seeing a much higher volume of mass shootings and suicides.

Even the drug companies admit there are cases which uncommon side effects occur. or the majority it could be fine but for a small minority of user's it could be a contributing factor if not the cause.

I find it hilarious that people on here are always railing about the drug companies not caring and being greedy, yet they are willing to dismiss the possibility that their drug companies products could be contributing to the problem.

Rare or very rare side effects does not mean Never.

45 incidents , 43 confirmed on "safe anti depressants" but hey that's a coincidence right?

First, who exactly is dismissing the possibility? I seem to be the only person saying mental health is NOT the primary culprit. I'd like to know where my homies are at. But more importantly these are separate issues entirely. I don't think ANY industry gives a shit about me above and beyond their ability to make my money into their money. The health industry is only special insofar as they sell something I NEED not something I WANT. That makes them fairly unique in the grand scheme of things. They are greedy, it's fairly clear they overprescribe various drugs and procedures.

No, Rare and Random do not mean never. Again who said that precisely?

45 killers on drugs? I didn't read your entire list I just skimmed but it seems like a few are suicides and a few more are regular old murders or double murders. By comparison I believe we're n track for 400 MASS shootings this year. So you'd be talking about a little over 10%. . .if all your cases were one year and all mass shootings. So coincidence? Maybe not but I'm a numbers guy and where I live 90%<10%

 

[BotanyBoy]

I think it's less absurd than you're making it out to be. To absurd to be worth it? Yes bu tI don't think the military would whole sale jump ship. Not all of us are hardcore Righties.

If they don't get a 2/3 vote and legally repeal 2A? Let's just say (D) passes a law and tries to cram it before SCOTUS has a chance to stop them or Obama just executive orders weapons confiscation under some patirot act bullshit.

Texas would fire the first shot no fucking problem, they are all HOPING HE TRIES!!!

...and the US military would be under oath to tell CIC to eat it. I think VERY few would back anything short of a 2/3 repeal of 2A.

Besides as I recall a fair amount of us are sufficiently rules as written guys that they'd understand that a 2/3rds vote to overturn the Constitution would make anybody against it a traitor.

I said if they didn't / unless they get a 2/3 vote....

And even if they did I think Texas and co. would be giving the rest of us the finger and LEAVING.

 

[Ishmael]

I think it's less absurd than you're making it out to be. To absurd to be worth it? Yes bu tI don't think the military would whole sale jump ship. Not all of us are hardcore Righties.

Besides as I recall a fair amount of us are sufficiently rules as written guys that they'd understand that a 2/3rds vote to overturn the Constitution would make anybody against it a traitor. Which regardless of right or wrong would still be the truth. If Obama made close friends with Kilgrave (Go watch Jessica Jones) and got 2/3rds of the US to vote to replace the 1st amendment, outlaw Christianity and replace it with Obamanism! (It's like Communism and Islam with Black Supremacy) you'd still be a traitor for not defending the Constitution. Now in that extreme a case I think the fall off would be higher but still.

2/3 vote won't overturn anything. Go read the Constitution. There is NO way the 2nd amendment is going to be repealed in your lifetime, if ever.

In the event Obama, or any other president, wanted to play dictator the military wouldn't be part of any action against the civilian population. Their oath is to the Constitution, not the president and it was purposely designed that way.

Ishmael

 

[Aella_]

I'm not saying it isn't safe for a majority of users. If it wasn't we'd have been seeing a much higher volume of mass shootings and suicides.

Even the drug companies admit there are cases which uncommon side effects occur. or the majority it could be fine but for a small minority of user's it could be a contributing factor if not the cause.

I find it hilarious that people on here are always railing about the drug companies not caring and being greedy, yet they are willing to dismiss the possibility that their drug companies products could be contributing to the problem.

Rare or very rare side effects does not mean Never.

45 incidents , 43 confirmed on "safe anti depressants" but hey that's a coincidence right?

I actually misinterpreted your initial post, thinking it was about stigma re the mentally ill. I was wrong; you're not one of those people.

You're actually raising a good point, I haven't thought of that. If I understood you correctly, my interpretation of what you're saying is that this could have well been one of the contributory factors. Aka the v. rare but severe side effects or idiosyncratic reactions that you described (restlessness causing anger, anxiety etc. general physical ill-being) could have increased the misery of those who were already prone (psychologically for # reasons)to such acts, making it easier for them to be pushed over the edge etc…
And as you pointed out (in an unrelated but somehow similar matter), for ex., there are increased warnings on the net about the increased risk of suicidality in teens who get started on certain antidepressants.

On the other hand: I'm stil not 100% with you on that. How would we know for certain that those idiosyncratic reactions or severe side effects happened to Them (the shooters), in particular? No clear evidence for that.

 

[putzpotus]

The jihad comes to California. Two San Bernardino shooters identified as Tayyeep Bin Ardogan and Farouk Saaed.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

We need a visit from a real Klaatu to end this nonsense. Make all weapons inert.

 

[Sean Renaud]

@Bot: Sorry, I thought you meant if they did it properly.
@Ish: I'm sorry, it's actually 3/4s isn't it. Not that it fucking matters to the conversation at hand.

No it's not getting repealed and that's in part because we don't give a shit about the Constituion. The goof the FF made was in making the document so difficult to alter they encouraged future generations to simply find ways to pick around the edges.

My scenario was if the Constitution changed which renders your argument moot. That being said the military is loyal to the country and the president the leader of said country. The military didn't fight against the Internment of Japanese. The Military didn't fight against segregation at any level save a few very infamous situations. The Military didn't take up arms against any of the multitude of existing gun laws either.

Lets not pretend that the oath isn't a bit of puffery like all oaths. These are young people not complete idiots.