Ronda Rousey

[Palamino19]

And I would not be foolish enough to say there were never fixes in mma, I'm betting there have been, just like boxing. But I've yet to see a strong person beat a pro fighter. Never once. Different thing. I've seen strong people who were trained beaten by pros. Non-fighters simply do not have the responses trained that you absolutely have to have to fight pro.

 

[Palamino19]

And, amateur level is often a crapshoot. Some gifted fighters, a lot who aren't, a lot winning on strength. That disappears in semi-pro and pro.

 

[ms_ann_thrope]

Early on in mma history there were a few that made it far that qualify. But the game changed, there is such pressure to have both ground and striking skill, and so many have it, you will not win if you don't know how to fight. If you can't fight an orthodox fighter and a southpaw, you will not win, if you can't fight a ground fighter, you will not win. It's just not the same game, it has progressed far, even if it is a crapfest as far as the media end of it. There is absolutely no reason for them to pursue promoting fixes that involve non-fighters, even if they want to do a fix.

Look at boxing. The known fixes involve real boxers. Fighting is complex business, all boxers at pro level can perform all the related skills, and it's simpler than mma, where there is ground work and kicks and all the additional complications that entails. A non pro fighter has no chance.

There exceptions to every rule. If every fight were a foregone conclusion, how long do you suppose fans would continue to watch?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

And I would not be foolish enough to say there were never fixes in mma, I'm betting there have been, just like boxing. But I've yet to see a strong person beat a pro fighter. Never once. Different thing. I've seen strong people who were trained beaten by pros. Non-fighters simply do not have the responses trained that you absolutely have to have to fight pro.

I would allow that there might be on rare occasion a fighter who betrays the bushido code, was what was alleged was a systematic fixing making this a show wholly akin to the WWE, again, with the goal of saying that someone of Rousey's background is just an athletic actor who can in no way compete with a "real" athlete.



I do not think it (successful bribery) would happen with the vast majority of men I know devoted to the arts and the sport. It goes against every part of the honor code we adhere to, probably, outside of the military, one of the last groups to have a true code of conduct and a strong sense of right and wrong and sportsmanship.

 

[ms_ann_thrope]

I would allow that there might be on rare occasion a fighter who betrays the bushido code, was what was alleged was a systematic fixing making this a show wholly akin to the WWE, again, with the goal of saying that someone of Rousey's background is just an athletic actor who can in no way compete with a "real" athlete.



I do not think it (successful bribery) would happen with the vast majority of men I know devoted to the arts and the sport. It goes against every part of the honor code we adhere to, probably, outside of the military, one of the last groups to have a true code of conduct and a strong sense of right and wrong and sportsmanship.

They are paid to fight. It's the code of the pocketbook.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

They are paid to fight. It's the code of the pocketbook.

You just are not very good at reading are you.

It is not even a matter of nuance.

It's like saying the Apollo 9 astronauts fought to return to earth for fame when all they were doing was fighting to live.



I did not say they do not get paid, I said money is not the main underlying motive because the vast majority of them have careers that are so short, due to the REALNESS of the sport that they never make it to pay-per-view, which is the only place that any of them ever get a real payday. These men and women have to work a real job and then have to turn around and spend their free time training, training which they have to pay for. Money is not the primary motivator. You would have to be an idiot to think that signing up to fight is going to be like wining the lottery.

 

[Palamino19]

There exceptions to every rule. If every fight were a foregone conclusion, how long do you suppose fans would continue to watch?

I've not seen an exception in close to twenty years, there hasn't been an exception in boxing in much longer. The learning curve is way too long to fake it in fighting.

EDIT: every fight isn't a foregone conclusion, only the one sided fights. Fights with non pro fighters at the pro level? Foregone conclusions.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I've not seen an exception in close to twenty years, there hasn't been an exception in boxing in much longer. The learning curve is way too long to fake it in fighting.

 

[Palamino19]

BJJ, muay thai, boxing, and a great number of the arts at the top level in mma have not historical relation to bushido. There's probably fight fixing. And, given that the Japanese arts closest to bushido have suffered fight fixing in Japan, I'd say it's not about what art or what honor code, if at all, but just, who is going to be bought, and who won't.

This is not to say that martial ethics have no place, just that, plenty pay it lip service, including fighters.

 

[ms_ann_thrope]

You just are not very good at reading are you.

It is not even a matter of nuance.

It's like saying the Apollo 9 astronauts fought to return to earth for fame when all they were doing was fighting to live.



I did not say they do not get paid, I said money is not the main underlying motive because the vast majority of them have careers that are so short, due to the REALNESS of the sport that they never make it to pay-per-view, which is the only place that any of them ever get a real payday. These men and women have to work a real job and then have to turn around and spend their free time training, training which they have to pay for. Money is not the primary motivator. You would have to be an idiot to think that signing up to fight is going to be like wining the lottery.

Do you mean Apollo 13?

 

[ms_ann_thrope]

I've not seen an exception in close to twenty years, there hasn't been an exception in boxing in much longer. The learning curve is way too long to fake it in fighting.

So boring yet you continue to watch. Hmm...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Do you mean Apollo 13?

Whoops. My bad.



Too many shots to the head.

 

[Palamino19]

So boring yet you continue to watch. Hmm...

I only watch the greats.

 

[ms_ann_thrope]

Whoops. My bad.



Too many shots to the head.

Too many blows to your credibility.

 

[Palamino19]

Really, you're out of your element here. If you had said Serena's hotness would lead to an instant defeat, I'd totally agree with you.

If you say a person who has not trained fight sports can beat a top level pro fighter, I would point you to the pretty much zero number of times that has happened.

 

[ms_ann_thrope]

I only watch the greats.

And the greats are the ones the sport tells you are great. It's all about setting up the right bouts.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

BJJ, muay thai, boxing, and a great number of the arts at the top level in mma have not historical relation to bushido. There's probably fight fixing. And, given that the Japanese arts closest to bushido have suffered fight fixing in Japan, I'd say it's not about what art or what honor code, if at all, but just, who is going to be bought, and who won't.

This is not to say that martial ethics have no place, just that, plenty pay it lip service, including fighters.

mma's roots are in America. I was trained by that first generation of men returning from Okinawa and Korea with the new wave of martial arts inspired by Bruce Lee and David Caradine. The code was heavily emphasized because they were steeped in Do not Jitsu. Eventually, because of its superiority, the jitsu forms were assimilated into our training to augment or Do ways, but we did not import a corrupt mentality to replace our code of honor.

 

[ms_ann_thrope]

Really, you're out of your element here. If you had said Serena's hotness would lead to an instant defeat, I'd totally agree with you.

If you say a person who has not trained fight sports can beat a top level pro fighter, I would point you to the pretty much zero number of times that has happened.

What's my element? Sucking down beers while watching 2 men hump each other and occasionally punching the other in the face?

It's happened zero number of times because it's never been attempted.

That doesn't preclude it couldn't happen.

 

[ms_ann_thrope]

mma's roots are in America. I was trained by that first generation of men returning from Okinawa and Korea with the new wave of martial arts inspired by Bruce Lee and David Caradine. The code was heavily emphasized because they were steeped in Do not Jitsu. Eventually, because of its superiority, the jitsu forms were assimilated into our training to augment or Do ways, but we did not import a corrupt mentality to replace our code of honor.

Didn't David Caradine hang himself while masturbating? No actors wanted to work with him because he couldn't contain himself.

Great example.

 

[Palamino19]

And the greats are the ones the sport tells you are great. It's all about setting up the right bouts.

And you're expertise in this is what, to tell me that's why I deem them great?

There are a great number of champions that I never cared for, because they were not great, even if they were hyped.

I like technical fighters, and technical fighters are almost never hyped by the people in charge, the fans hate technical fighters, they are not as fun for most to watch. So, you're point is not correct.

There are a lot of criticisms to make toward pro fighting organizations. You do not know them, which is understandable. But you simply don't know them.

 

[Palamino19]

It's happened zero number of times because it's never been attempted.

Um, no. Actually, mma has a rather rich history of hyping people who have no chance in hell against pros, giving them two or three matches against tomato cans, and then letting them lose to the real pros.

It's been attempted a lot.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Didn't David Caradine hang himself while masturbating? No actors wanted to work with him because he couldn't contain himself.

Great example.

So did the singer of INSX, but that has nothing to do with the blossoming of the martial arts phenomenon in this country inspired by shows like the Green Hornet and Kung Fu.

Caradine was cast because he was a dancer and could fake the martial arts poses because the networks thought that racism would preclude casting Bruce Lee in a starring role. He, like the WWE was just an actor. In the WWE, they have to be very athletic actors...

In the Octagon, the only (bad) acting that you are going to see is Michael Buffer.

 

[ms_ann_thrope]

And you're expertise in this is what, to tell me that's why I deem them great?

There are a great number of champions that I never cared for, because they were not great, even if they were hyped.

I like technical fighters, and technical fighters are almost never hyped by the people in charge, the fans hate technical fighters, they are not as fun for most to watch. So, you're point is not correct.

There are a lot of criticisms to make toward pro fighting organizations. You do not know them, which is understandable. But you simply don't know them.

You think what the ring announcers lead you to think. Follow the script.

 

[eyer]

You should trust me on this one. I have well over 30 years vested in the martial arts and spent my youth in the ring kick-boxing.

I know it is for real.

I come from that world.

Now you are simply coming off as not being very educated on this topic.

No, I actually met Hulk Hogan on my job as an entertainment security expert. I've been backstage.

...Again, as a promoter of these kinds of shows and as a teacher and coach, I can assure you that these fights are not being staged or "fixed."

It's why I fought. It's why I competed in tournament play until the age of 42 using my experience and training to win grand championships competing against men half my age.

No, for the most part, these guys actually train long and hard before they enter the ring. I know, I cross train them in my disciplines. You really do not know what you are talking about...

I do not think it (successful bribery) would happen with the vast majority of men I know devoted to the arts and the sport. It goes against every part of the honor code we adhere to, probably, outside of the military, one of the last groups to have a true code of conduct and a strong sense of right and wrong and sportsmanship.

I was trained by that first generation of men returning from Okinawa and Korea with the new wave of martial arts inspired by Bruce Lee and David Caradine. The code was heavily emphasized because they were steeped in Do not Jitsu. Eventually, because of its superiority, the jitsu forms were assimilated into our training to augment or Do ways, but we did not import a corrupt mentality to replace our code of honor.

Too friggin' funny:

All that swingin'...

...and still couldn't land a single punch.

Maybe try a bunch less self-stroking next time...

...wannabe?

 

[ms_ann_thrope]

So did the singer of INSX, but that has nothing to do with the blossoming of the martial arts phenomenon in this country inspired by shows like the Green Hornet and Kung Fu.

Caradine was cast because he was a dancer and could fake the martial arts poses because the networks thought that racism would preclude casting Bruce Lee in a starring role. He, like the WWE was just an actor. In the WWE, they have to be very athletic actors...

In the Octagon, the only (bad) acting that you are going to see is Michael Buffer.

So, you're now saying all the MME fighters are just actors?

Finally we agree on something.