New Witness to Michael Brown Shooting

[RobDownSouth]

The stopping power of a bullet has nothing to do with its size. It is about the hydrostatic energy that is dumped into the body. Velocity has as much or more to do with it as the size of the projectile. There is NO perfect round. If there were every military and police force in the world would be using it and nothing else.

I remember in basic training the drill sergeants extolling the "legendary hydrostatic stopping power of the .223 bullet". Never could tell if they were being facetious or not....

 

[DooleyDarter]

I remember in basic training the drill sergeants extolling the "legendary hydrostatic stopping power of the .223 bullet". Never could tell if they were being facetious or not....

I agree, but the discussion always left me thirsty

 

[Dream59]

I remember in basic training the drill sergeants extolling the "legendary hydrostatic stopping power of the .223 bullet". Never could tell if they were being facetious or not....

See if you can find some videos of various size projectiles being fired into ballistic gelatin. The energy crater is interesting. Though you can not compare the energy from a handgun to a rifle. The rifle has much more.

 

[about_average]

The stopping power of a bullet has nothing to do with its size. It is about the hydrostatic energy that is dumped into the body. Velocity has as much or more to do with it as the size of the projectile. There is NO perfect round. If there were every military and police force in the world would be using it and nothing else.

Hydrostatic shock created in the body. Bullets don't have hydrostatic energy.

In any case, you first two sentences contradict each other.
So you're saying size has no bearing whatsoever on the level of hydrostatic shock generated?
A Speer Gold Dot 147gr 9mm has the same stopping power as a Gold Dot 230gr .45 since it has higher velocity?

I'm not aware anyone who's said there's a perfect round.

 

[Que]

That argument has raged for over 50 years now. The .45 is a big and relatively slow bullet that expends all of its energy in the target and that is the secret of its success. However, if you miss and hit something/someone other than your intended target there is the likelihood of that unintended target suffering greater damage. In the end it gets back to marksmanship.

Ishmael

technically at least 113 years,. The M1911.

 

[Dream59]

In any case, you first two sentences contradict each other.

No they do not. The size of the projectile does not determine the amount of hydrostatic energy that is dumped into the body. Velocity along with the size of the round will determine that. The old .45ACPs do not dump near as much energy into a body as the current 9mms. The old .45 was so slow you could almost catch one, they are a higher velocity now and are much more effective.

The speed of the round will determine the energy dumped into the body at the time of impact.

 

[Dream59]

That argument has raged for over 50 years now. The .45 is a big and relatively slow bullet that expends all of its energy in the target and that is the secret of its success. However, if you miss and hit something/someone other than your intended target there is the likelihood of that unintended target suffering greater damage. In the end it gets back to marksmanship.

Ishmael

You can say the same about any round you miss with or that over penetrates the body. The old .45s were not near as effective as the ones today.

 

[Ishmael]

technically at least 113 years,. The M1911.

No they do not. The size of the projectile does not determine the amount of hydrostatic energy that is dumped into the body. Velocity along with the size of the round will determine that. The old .45ACPs do not dump near as much energy into a body as the current 9mms. The old .45 was so slow you could almost catch one, they are a higher velocity now and are much more effective.

The speed of the round will determine the energy dumped into the body at the time of impact.

The Marine Corps has placed an order with Colt Defense for 12,000 M45A1's (essentially the venerable 1911 with some technical updates). Why? Because the M9 ain't getting the job done.

Ishmael

 

[Dream59]

The Marine Corps has placed an order with Colt Defense for 12,000 M45A1's (essentially the venerable 1911 with some technical updates). Why? Because the M9 ain't getting the job done.

Ishmael

But the ballistics have changed since 1911, Ish. It is not the same round as when it came out. Even as far back as WW11 the .45 was not considered effective. I personally would rather have the M9 because I have more than twice the rounds as the M45A1 and can shoot someone twice for every once with the .45. Also in most of the world the 9mm ammo is going to be open source and not depend on the supply lines. It really does not make any difference though as few in the Marines carry a .45.

 

[Ishmael]

But the ballistics have changed since 1911, Ish. It is not the same round as when it came out. Even as far back as WW11 the .45 was not considered effective. I personally would rather have the M9 because I have more than twice the rounds as the M45A1 and can shoot someone twice for every once with the .45. Also in most of the world the 9mm ammo is going to be open source and not depend on the supply lines. It really does not make any difference though as few in the Marines carry a .45.

Go argue with the Marines. 12K is no small order.

Ishmael

 

[Dream59]

Go argue with the Marines. 12K is no small order.

Ishmael

LOL it is pretty small when you consider the size of the Marine Corp. Maybe 1% of the total or less.


Added: Btw my above statement should have read sidearm instead of .45.

 

[Ishmael]

LOL it is pretty small when you consider the size of the Marine Corp. Maybe 1% of the total or less.


Added: Btw my above statement should have read sidearm instead of .45.

Current force size of the Marines is 180K+/-. Of that number only 50% are on the sharp point of the spear and that is being generous. So the percentage is over 10%. The pistols are going to the Marine recons and other 'special' units because the M9 isn't getting the job done. The boys on the front line want more stopping power for their handgun. The rest of those in the Corps that are authorized sidearms will continue to be issued the M9 for now.

Ishmael

 

[nowisthetime]

This thread has degenerated into going way off topic and not even focusing on the issue at hand. This is what happens when you go past five pages in a thread. On a civilized board with rules, the mod would have locked the thread. But alas, GB is the circus of literotica.

 

[phrodeau]

This thread has degenerated into going way off topic and not even focusing on the issue at hand. This is what happens when you go past five pages in a thread. On a civilized board with rules, the mod would have locked the thread. But alas, GB is the circus of literotica.

Around here, threads aren't locked until they are over 200 pages.

 

[cjh]

This thread has degenerated into going way off topic and not even focusing on the issue at hand. This is what happens when you go past five pages in a thread. On a civilized board with rules, the mod would have locked the thread. But alas, GB is the circus of literotica.

Thank god.

Let the uptight, keep the wheels between the ditches posters post elsewhere.

 

[Wrong Element]

This thread has degenerated into going way off topic and not even focusing on the issue at hand. This is what happens when you go past five pages in a thread. On a civilized board with rules, the mod would have locked the thread. But alas, GB is the circus of literotica.

WE's Fourth Law of Literotica: Any GB thread that goes over 30 pages or is active for more than one week eventually degenerates into old dudes talking about their guns.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Witnesses: Michael Brown had his hands up when he was shot.

 

[toubab]

Witnesses: Michael Brown had his hands up when he was shot.

Big nothing, basically. The only thing that really matters is whether Brown was moving toward the cop when he was shot. If he was, it's probably going to be considered a good shoot.

 

[about_average]

I find this the most interesting part.

they say Darren Wilson was not the only officer on the scene, there were two others

 

[toubab]

I find this the most interesting part.

If that's true, and I find it questionable, why has that information not been made public by the police?

 

[about_average]

If that's true, and I find it questionable, why has that information not been made public by the police?

You'd have to ask them. They haven't been exactly forthcoming about stuff.

 

[toubab]

You'd have to ask them. They haven't been exactly forthcoming about stuff.

That's an understatement.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

http://38.media.tumblr.com/12efde383859dc997ee75efba09535d6/tumblr_nbhfv0lBLY1tt3uu0o1_500.jpg

 

[toubab]

http://38.media.tumblr.com/12efde383859dc997ee75efba09535d6/tumblr_nbhfv0lBLY1tt3uu0o1_500.jpg

If Brown was a thug, and it certainly appears he was, that's on him. Doesn't mean he deserved to die, but also doesn't mean he didn't. Makes it seem more likely the cop's apparent story is correct. None of it has to do with Brown's race, or the cop's race, from all appearances. None of it.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

If Brown was a thug, and it certainly appears he was, that's on him. Doesn't mean he deserved to die, but also doesn't mean he didn't. Makes it seem more likely the cop's apparent story is correct. None of it has to do with Brown's race, or the cop's race, from all appearances. None of it.

Brown wasn't a thug.

The police have been hiding behind lies.

And race has everything to do with this entire gig.