Your "belief" is not more important than my reality.

[Byron In Exile]

Well look who's gone quiet! No answer from FGB yet. Shocking

Would you rather be blind, or deaf?

You have to choose one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl9WMIPzd6w

 

[Byron In Exile]

Sorry to divert the thread.

But, really, it was turning into a bunch of dick-waving.

 

[Bert_Fegg]

My position is born out of principles rather than finance or religion.

Basically I'd rather give $100 to a worthy cause than 50 cent to somebody who doesn't deserve it. I believe in doing the right thing - also when it's not the cheapest or easiest option - because in the long run it is invariably best for everybody. Hence the name: "the right thing"

Thus I believe that everybody deserves good health care, affordable medicine and access to the latest procedures

But I don't want to pay for otherwise healthy people having sex, including their birth control and Viagra or whatever else they might need to facilitate the process. Because there are so many great things about sex and if those aren't enough motivation, then they don't deserve my help anyway.


Oh, and as far as the financial black-mail argument...

"If you don't give me money so I can do 'X', I'm gonna do 'Y' instead and that'll cost you a lot more. Naah naah naah."

... goes? Well, if you play Poker with me with your own future as the stake I'm dropping my cards and leaving the game.

Then surely your principles demand you stop paying insurance premiums and pay for your own healthcare.

I'm not a huge fan of Immanuel Kant, but the Categorical Imperative* works well enough as a criterion to serve us here.

Your position is that since you disagree with the provision of birth control, it should be dropped from health insurance cover.

Assuming that you'd be happy for whatever anyone disagreed with to be excluded from cover, my guess is that there wouldn't be much left that was covered. I'm guessing there'd be a woman out there somewhere who'd object to your boy bits being covered as a forinstance.

You're entitled to your opinions. What you're not entitled to is to force your view of what's right on to anyone who disagrees. Of course if you consciously partake of a service you have deep seated moral objections to, purely for the sake of convenience, then you don't need me to tell you the word we use to describe people like you. but it sounds a bit like Hippogriff


*"act only on that maxim you could, at the same time, will as a universal law" i.e. I object to x so x should not be covered = whatever anyone objects to should not be covered. [apologies to the majority of you who know this one - I'm guessing there's at least one person it will be new to]

 

[Byron In Exile]

Then surely your principles demand you stop paying insurance premiums and pay for your own healthcare.

I'm not a huge fan of Immanuel Kant, but the Categorical Imperative* works well enough as a criterion to serve us here.

Your position is that since you disagree with the provision of birth control, it should be dropped from heath insurance cover.

Assuming that you'd be happy for whatever anyone disagreed with to be excluded from cover, my guess is that there wouldn't be much left that was covered. I'm guessing there'd be a woman out there somewhere who'd object to your boy bits being covered as a forinstance.

You're entitled to your opinions. What you're not entitled to is to force your view of what's right on to anyone who disagrees. Of course if you consciously partake of a service you have deep seated moral objections to, purely for the sake of convenience, then you don't need me to tell you the word we use to describe people like you. but it sounds a bit like Hippogriff


*"act only on that maxim you could, at the same time, will as a universal law" i.e. I object to x so x should not be covered = whatever anyone objects to should not be covered. [apologies to the majority of you who know this one - I'm guessing there's at least one person it will be new to]

Bert.

Really?

 

[Bert_Fegg]

Bert.

Really?

Naughtius

Yes.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Naughtius

Yes.

Then I suppose you exposed yourself well enough.

 

[about_average]

My position is born out of principles rather than finance or religion.

Basically I'd rather give $100 to a worthy cause than 50 cent to somebody who doesn't deserve it. I believe in doing the right thing - also when it's not the cheapest or easiest option - because in the long run it is invariably best for everybody. Hence the name: "the right thing"

Thus I believe that everybody deserves good health care, affordable medicine and access to the latest procedures

But I don't want to pay for otherwise healthy people having sex, including their birth control and Viagra or whatever else they might need to facilitate the process. Because there are so many great things about sex and if those aren't enough motivation, then they don't deserve my help anyway.

Does that mean you're opposed to annual checkups and all the other preventative exams, flu shots, vaccines and many other prophylactic medications? After all, people could change their day to day activities to greatly lessen any need for those.
Prescriptions for motion sickness are a very good example, people could choose to not travel, or just deal with puking. Right now you're paying for people to vacation.

Then there's the fact that many birth control medications are used for things other than birth control. Doctors constantly getting approval from insurance companies to prescribe them will add to insurance costs.
Then there's the fact that some women will want birth control covered so come in and report a problem that allows prescriptions. Since the medication is being prescribed for something else, it may be less effective for birth control resulting in more long term expenses related to pregnancy.
Alternatively it may be a dosage higher than needed for birth control and result in side effects that need additional medical care, thus costing more.

So how is all of that "best for everybody"?

Oh, and as far as the financial black-mail argument...

"If you don't give me money so I can do 'X', I'm gonna do 'Y' instead and that'll cost you a lot more. Naah naah naah."

... goes? Well, if you play Poker with me with your own future as the stake I'm dropping my cards and leaving the game.

It's not blackmail, it's just a fact that people are going to have sex.

 

[StrangeLife]

Then surely your principles demand you stop paying insurance premiums and pay for your own healthcare.

I'm not a huge fan of Immanuel Kant, but the Categorical Imperative* works well enough as a criterion to serve us here.

Your position is that since you disagree with the provision of birth control, it should be dropped from health insurance cover.

My position is, that being an idiot isn't the same as being sick. Therefore it should not be covered under your health care.

If a girl has consensual bareback sex with Bum Of The Day despite knowing what she knows about the after-effects and long-term implications on her future, she's an idiot.

Assuming that you'd be happy for whatever anyone disagreed with to be excluded from cover, my guess is that there wouldn't be much left that was covered. I'm guessing there'd be a woman out there somewhere who'd object to your boy bits being covered as a forinstance.

You're entitled to your opinions. What you're not entitled to is to force your view of what's right on to anyone who disagrees. Of course if you consciously partake of a service you have deep seated moral objections to, purely for the sake of convenience, then you don't need me to tell you the word we use to describe people like you. but it sounds a bit like Hippogriff

If my bits are sick, I expect them to be fixed under my insurance.

And yes - I most certainly am entitled to decide what others can or cannot do, if they expect me to pay their way. You are only truly free, if you pay your own way. It's a little like living at home. As long as you live off your parents, you're not free of their rules.

*"act only on that maxim you could, at the same time, will as a universal law" i.e. I object to x so x should not be covered = whatever anyone objects to should not be covered. [apologies to the majority of you who know this one - I'm guessing there's at least one person it will be new to]

I do not object to sex. I love sex. I want to have more sex. I think the world would be a better place if everybody had as much sex as possible. I do not begrudge anybody a great and awesome sex life.

Goes for you as well. But I still don't want to finance yours.

So I apologise for keeping eluding your attempts to file me in a box where you can dismiss me as "one of them"... whatever "them" might be. I'm not religious, I voted Obama (though I am disappointed), I fight against religion in science class, my main reason for reading Ann Coulter's books is getting a great laugh and I support unfiltered sex ed in schools.

But I am also a member of the NRA, rather than "turning the other cheek" I believe in returning later with a baseball bat, I believe in freedom to make your own choices in life and that a government exists to serve it's people rather than the other way around. To me Obama is simply a CEO I pay to run my country.

There. Now print that out and stick it on the box

 

[Bert_Fegg]

StrangeLife

Your last post didn't address my point - Could be you don't understand it - Could be that you don't have a counter argument and you think a bucketload of bullshit will mask that fact.

A couple of things you said made me giggle though:

"You are only truly free, if you pay your own way. It's a little like living at home. As long as you live off your parents, you're not free of their rules."

You're not paying your own way if you're buying insurance. If you buy insurance you're agreeing to a set of rules [The insurance T&C's]. As long as your medical cover is via the insurance company, you accept their terms. Your options are to opt out or stfu.


"So I apologise for keeping eluding your attempts to file me in a box where you can dismiss me as "one of them"... whatever "them" might be. I'm not religious, I voted Obama (though I am disappointed), I fight against religion in science class, my main reason for reading Ann Coulter's books is getting a great laugh and I support unfiltered sex ed in schools."

You're not eluding my attempts to "file you in a box" I've already filed you in a a box marked "Hypocrite" and cross indexed you under "Not particularly bright" Dodging arguments you can't refute isn't the same as eluding attempts to categorise you.

It's obvious you have a deep-seated objection to women having easy access to birth control. It's equally obvious that you haven't stated it yet. My guess is that it's because you know it's less defensible that the position you profess to hold.

 

[StrangeLife]

Does that mean you're opposed to annual checkups and all the other preventative exams, flu shots, vaccines and many other prophylactic medications? After all, people could change their day to day activities to greatly lessen any need for those.

No, I'm definitely not an anti-waxer and despite the fact that Jenny McCarthy is hot and I'd love to have wild sex with her, she has indirectly killed more people than most inmates on death row by decreasing our herd-immunity with her pseudoscientific crusade against vaccinations.

She is convinced that her own "perfect genes" combined with those of screen-hunk John Mallory Asher couldn't possibly produce a child with autism. So it must be some evil external force that did it. So why not blame the single most successful medical procedure ever devised by man and join forces with Oprah to bomb us back to the middle ages? Argh! Don't even get me started.

http://s18.postimg.org/9w1f2hbat/hot.gif



But I see what you're getting at. Birth control as a prophylactic against the wider consequences of casual sex, right? By getting an implant you are effectively being "vaccinated" against the "single mother on welfare with four kids at 25 and no future" - syndrome.

But I think we are moving too far away from the definition of "prevention of a disease" and into "remedy of poor choices" territory. Though I will admit that the border between the two isn't sharply defined. In my mind being promiscuous without bothering with taking precautions against unwanted pregnancy is a lifestyle choice and as such shouldn't be covered.

For instance, I don't want to pay for obese people to get gastric by-pass either. Everybody know exactly how you get fat so in my opinion it's a life-style choice, unless somebody straps you to a chair and forced feeds you cheese cake...

Prescriptions for motion sickness are a very good example, people could choose to not travel, or just deal with puking. Right now you're paying for people to vacation.

Motion sickness is a "disability." It prevents you from applying certain modes of transportation and limits you in todays society in various ways. Just like you'd get glasses for poor vision, you are entitled to get the treatment you need in order to overcome this limitation.

Then there's the fact that many birth control medications are used for things other than birth control. Doctors constantly getting approval from insurance companies to prescribe them will add to insurance costs.
Then there's the fact that some women will want birth control covered so come in and report a problem that allows prescriptions. Since the medication is being prescribed for something else, it may be less effective for birth control resulting in more long term expenses related to pregnancy.
Alternatively it may be a dosage higher than needed for birth control and result in side effects that need additional medical care, thus costing more.

So how is all of that "best for everybody"?

Like I mentioned to phenominally pheisty Phelia, my stance on the subject reverses 180 degrees if there is a medical issue involved. I am aware that hormonal treatment is used for many other purposes than turning off the baby-factory, and that blocking the ability to get pregnant can be part of a treatment. I am all for covering these.

And yes - I know it will be abused. But it will satisfy my personal criterions.

It's not blackmail, it's just a fact that people are going to have sex.

And it's a fact - a very well known and documented one - that if you fuck a dude repeatedly without protection you have a good chance of ending up pregnant. I mean, c'mon. There really is no excuse.

 

[about_average]

In my mind being promiscuous without bothering with taking precautions against unwanted pregnancy is a lifestyle choice and as such shouldn't be covered.

I see, wanting insurance to pay for birth control means you're a slut or a prostitute.
Ok, no point in even discussing the matter with you further.

 

[bg23]

what would happen if all the women who couldn't get their birth control covered from insurance stopped having sex until they were married and ready to procreate?

i imagine SL wouldn't be getting laid for quite some time (well, not that that was much of a stretch of the imagination in the first place, of course.)

maybe horny dudes should set up a fund of some sort to finance the birth control needs of the single women they want to bang.

 

[StrangeLife]

Your last post didn't address my point - Could be you don't understand it - Could be that you don't have a counter argument and you think a bucketload of bullshit will mask that fact.

A couple of things you said made me giggle though:

"You are only truly free, if you pay your own way. It's a little like living at home. As long as you live off your parents, you're not free of their rules."

You're not paying your own way if you're buying insurance. If you buy insurance you're agreeing to a set of rules [The insurance T&C's]. As long as your medical cover is via the insurance company, you accept their terms. Your options are to opt out or stfu.

An insurance is a "pool" - remotely related to the famous Building and Loan Company (I assume you have watched every Americans favorite feel-good movie It's A Wonderful Life at some point. Many people pay small amounts in, with the understanding that they can draw on the entire pool at a later time, if they should need it.

So though you are "buying" insurance, it's really more like joining a club of people looking out for each other than "purchasing a product." And I don't want to be in the same club as somebody who has no respect or concern for the rest of us.

That's my choice. People are free to be inconsiderate self-centered narcissists brimming with entitlement and lack of fore-thought and in return I am free to tell them to take a hike and go shovel shit to pay their own bills.

You're not eluding my attempts to "file you in a box" I've already filed you in a a box marked "Hypocrite"....

Which would be true if I hadn't paid my own way since I was 16... including dealing with the consequences of my own life style choices (my oldest daughter is only 18 years younger than me ).

...and cross indexed you under "Not particularly bright"....

Gotta be my good looks that has enabled me to survive then. Thanks Bert - that was actually the compliment of the day.

Dodging arguments you can't refute isn't the same as eluding attempts to categorise you.

It's not hard to dodge a bad throw. My position is not unreasonable nor is it founded on poor understanding of the condition facing young people in todays society. I see myself as a reasonably socially responsible guy - maybe not by European standards but certainly in the more progressive parts of the world - and I want to live in a country where nobody is denied food, shelter and medical help.

But if they take the offered food and throw it back in my face because "they're used to eating caviar" they're not getting a second serving on my tab.

If a social worker tells a young girl "You have one kid already with no dad. Please go finish high school before you have any more" and she still fucks around bareback because getting high is more important than getting an implant she is knowingly and deliberately throwing her life on the trash-heap. That is her choice - not mine.

Why is that position so wrong? I guess I really am stupid cause that part I sure as hell don't get... http://s15.postimg.org/mc7jxrryf/684_59a8c19ad602c5d5b3149cef52540c113.gif

It's obvious you have a deep-seated objection to women having easy access to birth control. It's equally obvious that you haven't stated it yet. My guess is that it's because you know it's less defensible that the position you profess to hold.

Made the label for ya. Hope there is still room left on the box...

http://s3.postimg.org/gcopmlmzn/image.gif

 

[StrangeLife]

I see, wanting insurance to pay for birth control means you're a slut or a prostitute.
Ok, no point in even discussing the matter with you further.

Finally you got me pegged. Congratulations, and please tell Bert hi from me when you see him down in the club...

 

[phrodeau]

An insurance is a "pool" - remotely related to the famous Building and Loan Company (I assume you have watched every Americans favorite feel-good movie It's A Wonderful Life at some point. Many people pay small amounts in, with the understanding that they can draw on the entire pool at a later time, if they should need it.

So though you are "buying" insurance, it's really more like joining a club of people looking out for each other than "purchasing a product." And I don't want to be in the same club as somebody who has no respect or concern for the rest of us.

That's my choice. People are free to be inconsiderate self-centered narcissists brimming with entitlement and lack of fore-thought and in return I am free to tell them to take a hike and go shovel shit to pay their own bills.








Which would be true if I hadn't paid my own way since I was 16... including dealing with the consequences of my own life style choices (my oldest daughter is only 18 years younger than me ).






Gotta be my good looks that has enabled me to survive then. Thanks Bert - that was actually the compliment of the day.






It's not hard to dodge a bad throw. My position is not unreasonable nor is it founded on poor understanding of the condition facing young people in todays society. I see myself as a reasonably socially responsible guy - maybe not by European standards but certainly in the more progressive parts of the world - and I want to live in a country where nobody is denied food, shelter and medical help.

But if they take the offered food and throw it back in my face because "they're used to eating caviar" they're not getting a second serving on my tab.

If a social worker tells a young girl "You have one kid already with no dad. Please go finish high school before you have any more" and she still fucks around bareback because getting high is more important than getting an implant she is knowingly and deliberately throwing her life on the trash-heap. That is her choice - not mine.

Why is that position so wrong? I guess I really am stupid cause that part I sure as hell don't get... http://s15.postimg.org/mc7jxrryf/684_59a8c19ad602c5d5b3149cef52540c113.gif






Made the label for ya. Hope there is still room left on the box...

http://s3.postimg.org/gcopmlmzn/image.gif

What a mess you are.

There are those who want birth control and can't afford it. There are those who can get free birth control but refuse to get it.

The second group should be no concern of yours because they are not increasing your costs. But you would deny the first group the means for birth control because you're afraid that the second group will bleed you dry.

 

[StrangeLife]

maybe horny dudes should set up a fund of some sort to finance the birth control needs of the single women they want to bang.

I love your way of thinking.

What would happen if the girl - instead of rolling onto her back and allowing Billy-Bob whom she just met down at the club to pork away - told him:

"Enjoy the handjob BB - if you want more? Well, implants are really cheap these days... cost a lot less than those Air Jordans you just slipped out of. And trust me - I'm totally worth it *wink wink*"

I love sluts and I think we need more of them. But there is such a thing as a "responsible slut" and those are the ones I support.

i imagine SL wouldn't be getting laid for quite some time (well, not that that was much of a stretch of the imagination in the first place, of course.)

Trust me - I pay! I bought the subscription...

 

[BotanyBoy]

I'm assuming strange life is still arguing under the assumption that birth control only has one reason/purpose....for women to be slutty!!

Right strange life??

 

[Bert_Fegg]

An insurance is a "pool" - remotely related to the famous Building and Loan Company (I assume you have watched every Americans favorite feel-good movie It's A Wonderful Life at some point. Many people pay small amounts in, with the understanding that they can draw on the entire pool at a later time, if they should need it.

So though you are "buying" insurance, it's really more like joining a club of people looking out for each other than "purchasing a product." And I don't want to be in the same club as somebody who has no respect or concern for the rest of us.

That's my choice. People are free to be inconsiderate self-centered narcissists brimming with entitlement and lack of fore-thought and in return I am free to tell them to take a hike and go shovel shit to pay their own bills.

I think you're confusing the insurance industry with credit unions. Insurance is a commercial product. I do find it amusing though, that you say on the one hand you feel free to tell someone whose cover you don't approve of, that they can "take a hike and go shovel shit to pay their own bills.", and in almost the same breath, unironically rail against "self-centered narcissists brimming with entitlement"

If a social worker tells a young girl "You have one kid already with no dad. Please go finish high school before you have any more" and she still fucks around bareback because getting high is more important than getting an implant she is knowingly and deliberately throwing her life on the trash-heap. That is her choice - not mine.

This is what we call a straw man argument - Misrepresenting someone's position in order to make it easier to attack. It's dishonest and what it says about you is that you don't have a legitimate counterargument to offer - it's pretty much the same as conceding the point. Your fictitious girl and her imaginary situation have got bugger all to do with the rights and wrongs of providing birth control on health insurance - if anything, the example you've pulled out of your arse supports such provision. if birth control were readily available, unintended pregnancies would be a lot rarer - I don't hear you railing at blokes for impregnating girls unintentionally either.

Why is that position so wrong? I guess I really am stupid cause that part I sure as hell don't get... http://s15.postimg.org/mc7jxrryf/684_59a8c19ad602c5d5b3149cef52540c113.gif






Made the label for ya. Hope there is still room left on the box...

http://s3.postimg.org/gcopmlmzn/image.gif

You're not saying anything that wasn't already obvious.

 

[StrangeLife]

What a mess you are.

It's monday. What did you expect?

There are those who want birth control and can't afford it.

Yes, there are very few people who can afford everything they wish they had...

There are those who can get free birth control but refuse to get it.

Which is their free choice.

The second group should be no concern of yours because they are not increasing your costs. But you would deny the first group the means for birth control because you're afraid that the second group will bleed you dry.

No. I deny them birth control for the same reason I deny them a car, a tennis racket, a koi pond and an RC chopper. Because if you can't afford a certain hobby, that's not my problem.

I would love to take up yachting, but my insurance wont buy me a ship, despite the fact that they know I can't afford one.

I hate those fucking yachtogynists!

 

[phrodeau]

It's monday. What did you expect?






Yes, there are very few people who can afford everything they wish they had...






Which is their free choice.






No. I deny them birth control for the same reason I deny them a car, a tennis racket, a koi pond and an RC chopper. Because if you can't afford a certain hobby, that's not my problem.

I would love to take up yachting, but my insurance wont buy me a ship, despite the fact that they know I can't afford one.

I hate those fucking yachtogynists!

If sex is a hobby, then wearing clothes is a hobby and sleeping under a roof is a hobby.

And if these things are all hobbies, the Hobby Lobby should be the place to find the items those hobbyists need.

 

[BotanyBoy]

No. I deny them birth control for the same reason I deny them a car, a tennis racket, a koi pond and an RC chopper. Because if you can't afford a certain hobby, that's not my problem.

What about those where it isn't recreational? Ohhhhh forgot all about those people....fuck them right? You know you're wrong as fuck that's why you won't answer me....hiding like a little bitch because you know your position is weak, because it's based upon the assumption that BC = promiscuity. Which is WRONG.

 

[about_average]

Finally you got me pegged.

Well, you're the one who clearly said it, so it's just stating the obvious now that you stated it.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Let's review:

• Sex is always recreational for women, except when it's not, but should always be subject to financial implications and affordability. In short: hoors.
• Sex is never recreational for men, even when it is, and should never be subject to financial implications and affordability.

 

[bg23]

I love your way of thinking.

What would happen if the girl - instead of rolling onto her back and allowing Billy-Bob whom she just met down at the club to pork away - told him:

"Enjoy the handjob BB - if you want more? Well, implants are really cheap these days... cost a lot less than those Air Jordans you just slipped out of. And trust me - I'm totally worth it *wink wink*"

I love sluts and I think we need more of them. But there is such a thing as a "responsible slut" and those are the ones I support.



Trust me - I pay! I bought the subscription...

ok. you start the fund, tell me how it goes, and in the meantime please inform all the dudes they aren't going to be getting laid til the fund is up and running.

 

[Brollyanna]

I wonder if my insurance dime pays to treat Reese's Peanut Butter Cups induced heart disease?