Your "belief" is not more important than my reality.

[JohnnySavage]

As I said in another thread, sometimes, just sometimes, I am so proud of the country in which I live.

Contraceptives, including the morning after pill, are free here, provided by the state, and readily available. No-one thinks anything about it. It's just the way things are. If you oppose contraceptives on religious grounds then no-one forces you to use them. Similarly, no-one expects you to object to others having access to them. In this country we want every child to be planned and wanted.

Your av would be a great birth control device.

 

[Sinny]

" women's reproductive rights."

When and where did these come?

Are they from man? God?

What are they?

What "RIGHT" is this?

And why should other people pay for them?

Smells it does...

Spoken like a true Taliban member. You ought to go live in one of those countries, you know, where women have no rights or protections. Let me ask you this. Do you have daughters? When they are in secure relationships and working on their careers, don't you think they ought to have the right to plan their family so it makes sense for their timeline? Most likely their husbands would agree that saving for a home before having a baby is the right thing to do. Of course, birth control is instrumental for making those right choices. As a society, a majority of people support that kind of choice when considering how many people in this country use birth control. Yet you have the audacity to suggest those rights are a joke. They are not. They are what created a generation of financially secure women who got to choose when to have their baby. Like me. I was a decade into my career, college educated and a homeowner when I started a family. Because I had the control over my reproductive system to do that.

This isn't even about public funding or private insurance options for birth control. This is about a generation of old white fucknuts like you trying to strip us of our rights and the ability to manage our bodies as we see fit. And we aren't going to let you get away with that. Ever.

Also, in true Phelia fashion, Fuck you.

 

[Bert_Fegg]

Spoken like a true Taliban member. You ought to go live in one of those countries, you know, where women have no rights or protections. Let me ask you this. Do you have daughters? When they are in secure relationships and working on their careers, don't you think they ought to have the right to plan their family so it makes sense for their timeline? Most likely their husbands would agree that saving for a home before having a baby is the right thing to do. Of course, birth control is instrumental for making those right choices. As a society, a majority of people support that kind of choice when considering how many people in this country use birth control. Yet you have the audacity to suggest those rights are a joke. They are not. They are what created a generation of financially secure women who got to choose when to have their baby. Like me. I was a decade into my career, college educated and a homeowner when I started a family. Because I had the control over my reproductive system to do that.

This isn't even about public funding or private insurance options for birth control. This is about a generation of old white fucknuts like you trying to strip us of our rights and the ability to manage our bodies as we see fit. And we aren't going to let you get away with that. Ever.

Also, in true Phelia fashion, Fuck you.

That's far too much respect for someone who still believes in the easter bunny.

Let me lighten the mood with some humour


Why was Jesus so popular with the ladies.....


Because [extends arms] He was hung like that....

 

[LadyFunkenstein]

But this is about subsidised birth control, which is "anti procreation."

<snip>
...and having recreational sex with Club-Rat Of The Week without birth control will cause the next two decades of your life to suck worse than Highlander 3, Plan V From Outer Space and Meet Joe Black combined!

So sex is a very cheap activity and the consequences of doing it without the proper gear are very dire and very well documented. So if you can't come up with the cash for your own birth control given the power of the motivational factors I just mentioned, you are a... a...

That birth control is for recreational sex is certainly the reason why Hobby Lobby and others don't want to pay for birth control is certainly true, but it isn't about the money. (Hence viagra vs bc is not a relevant comparison.) The real goal is to bring back extreme consequences to casual sex in order to bolster the family unit back to the days preceding feminism.

Prior to birth control and abortions being readily available, women had to be very choosy about their sexual partners. They had to guard their eggs if you will, not get knocked up by a loser. (This is why women are naturally hypergamous.) A single mom would be destitute, hence the "shot gun wedding" of the past when a couple experienced an unplanned wedding. This may have worked against the personal happiness of the woman and man involved, but no doubt the family unit was stronger back then. Family was more important than personal happiness and personal pleasure.

Fast forward to BC and abortions being readily available and the removal of life-altering consequences. Women do not have to be nearly as choosy about their sexual partners. There is no stigma to being a single mom (plus The State picks up the financial slack now either with welfare or forcing the male to pay) despite the fact that children do not do nearly as well being raised by a single mom as compared to a two parent household. Personal happiness trumps all now, which is why people will get a divorce out of boredom. Men in their 20s and 30s don't commit to women as readily because sex is easy and cheap - gone are the days in which sex was exchanged for commitment - which is why marriage rates are on the decline.

All of this is to say that Hobby Lobby's stance is one of what is annoyingly called "slut shaming"... I am not saying that I agree with them, but I do see their point. They want to go back to the days in which women thought long and hard about who they were going to fuck, and assessed men by more than how sexually appealing he is. Because if you got pregnant, your life was screwed. And since 20% of the single men out there are having 80% of the casual sex, lots of "regular" guys are being left out in the cold. Lack of contraception would bring the regular guys back into the game.

 

[eyer]

That birth control is for recreational sex is certainly the reason why Hobby Lobby and others don't want to pay for birth control is certainly true, but it isn't about the money. (Hence viagra vs bc is not a relevant comparison.) The real goal is to bring back extreme consequences to casual sex in order to bolster the family unit back to the days preceding feminism.

Prior to birth control and abortions being readily available, women had to be very choosy about their sexual partners. They had to guard their eggs if you will, not get knocked up by a loser. (This is why women are naturally hypergamous.) A single mom would be destitute, hence the "shot gun wedding" of the past when a couple experienced an unplanned wedding. This may have worked against the personal happiness of the woman and man involved, but no doubt the family unit was stronger back then. Family was more important than personal happiness and personal pleasure.

Fast forward to BC and abortions being readily available and the removal of life-altering consequences. Women do not have to be nearly as choosy about their sexual partners. There is no stigma to being a single mom (plus The State picks up the financial slack now either with welfare or forcing the male to pay) despite the fact that children do not do nearly as well being raised by a single mom as compared to a two parent household. Personal happiness trumps all now, which is why people will get a divorce out of boredom. Men in their 20s and 30s don't commit to women as readily because sex is easy and cheap - gone are the days in which sex was exchanged for commitment - which is why marriage rates are on the decline.

All of this is to say that Hobby Lobby's stance is one of what is annoyingly called "slut shaming"... I am not saying that I agree with them, but I do see their point. They want to go back to the days in which women thought long and hard about who they were going to fuck, and assessed men by more than how sexually appealing he is. Because if you got pregnant, your life was screwed. And since 20% of the single men out there are having 80% of the casual sex, lots of "regular" guys are being left out in the cold. Lack of contraception would bring the regular guys back into the game.

Fuck you...

...and your old white fucknut opinion!

 

[unregistered]

 

[FGB]

Spoken like a true Taliban member. You ought to go live in one of those countries, you know, where women have no rights or protections. Let me ask you this. Do you have daughters? When they are in secure relationships and working on their careers, don't you think they ought to have the right to plan their family so it makes sense for their timeline? Most likely their husbands would agree that saving for a home before having a baby is the right thing to do. Of course, birth control is instrumental for making those right choices. As a society, a majority of people support that kind of choice when considering how many people in this country use birth control. Yet you have the audacity to suggest those rights are a joke. They are not. They are what created a generation of financially secure women who got to choose when to have their baby. Like me. I was a decade into my career, college educated and a homeowner when I started a family. Because I had the control over my reproductive system to do that.

This isn't even about public funding or private insurance options for birth control. This is about a generation of old white fucknuts like you trying to strip us of our rights and the ability to manage our bodies as we see fit. And we aren't going to let you get away with that. Ever.

Also, in true Phelia fashion, Fuck you.

BULLSHITT!

Ha! You should be so lucky

Family planning is deciding to have or not to have babies...BRFORE you get pregnant.

Clint said it best some thing like...Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining!

What you want to do is kill them after they are conceived.

What you are really after is wanting people like me to agree with you and let you alone in the crusade to murder these children before they are born.

NOT GOING TO FUCKING HAPPEN.

Why not just go down the Hospital nursery with a machete and kill off a few dozen? The only difference is a few hours or minutes between the two.

Fucking Hypocrites.

Oh...Yeah. And me and my "Taliban" brothers will and many of those have died to insure you have the right and freedom to disagree with me.

 

[ms_ann_thrope]

QUOTE=FGB;55656426]BULLSHITT!

Ha! You should be so lucky

Family planning is deciding to have or not to have babies...BRFORE you get pregnant.

Clint said it best some thing like...Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining!

What you want to do is kill them after they are conceived.

What you are really after is wanting people like me to agree with you and let you alone in the crusade to murder these children before they are born.

NOT GOING TO FUCKING HAPPEN.

Why not just go down the Hospital nursery with a machete and kill off a few dozen? The only difference is a few hours or minutes between the two.

Fucking Hypocrites.

Oh...Yeah. And me and my "Taliban" brothers will and many of those have died to insure you have the right and freedom to disagree with me.[/QUOTE]

Quoted for wow.

 

[Lorilei]

The crazy is strong in this thread.

 

[FGB]

Quoted for wow.

You Quoted to fast...Go requote.

 

[ms_ann_thrope]

The crazy is strong in this thread.

I blame the OP.

 

[ms_ann_thrope]

You Quoted to fast...Go requote.

I did but I fucked it up.

 

[FGB]

Something to consider...

http://www.mccl.org/Page.aspx?pid=400

 

[Sean Renaud]

The difference is only a couple of minutes or hours? Most people agree that the difference is roughly six fucking months. In practice it's almost always six months or more.

Hardly any are aborted within days or even weeks of birth but keep lying.

 

[FGB]

The difference is only a couple of minutes or hours? Most people agree that the difference is roughly six fucking months. In practice it's almost always six months or more.

Hardly any are aborted within days or even weeks of birth but keep lying.

Hopefully is is tone less and less but late term abortion is not a myth.

 

[StrangeLife]

Sooo...no one wants discuss the nature of reality?

There is no reality. There is only perception.

As far as SL's position goes, I can't believe he's a troll, because he's actually arguing his position - I suspect he's just arguing for the sake of it now, but my guess is that he has difficulty reconciling the perfect world his arguments apply to with the real one that we actually have to live in - also I suspect his math skills aren't great.

On the subject of State-controlled fertility - Here in the UK birth control has been available free of charge on the NHS for pretty much as long as it's existed - currently no eugenics programmes have been mooted, because [a] it's fucking stupid and a little thing we have over here called "political suicide" maybe you have it too?

The UK - the home of the most complex CCTV networks on the planet with automatic face- and licence-plate recognition. Originally expanded massively in the 90ties in order to combat terrorism. Did you know that it's used for collecting unpaid parking ticket today? It's amazing how things like this starts out as an extreme measure and once you start down the slippery slope it just kinda "grows on you" and you accept it when they start fining you for jaywalking or littering with the cameras as evidence.

Here is a statement from a former British PM which would have been political suicide in the US but was accepted in Britain without much fuzz....

[QUOTE="John Major 1994" ]I have no doubt we will hear some protest about a threat to civil liberties. Well, I have no sympathy whatsoever for so-called liberties of that kind.[/QUOTE]


You see Bert, you Brits are way too nice and - as is common in Europe - you trust your government to do he right thing. And your government has so far turned your large cities into the friggin Truman Show. Do I see any enraged Brits marching the streets shooting out cameras? So do I believe that it would be political suicide for a British government to initiate selective population control? Not in a million years.

But tax the tea and you have a riot on your hands...

As far as the rest of your argument goes it seems to be that BC pills cost money, which is covered by your premiums, and since one of the reasons women take them is to prevent pregnancy, and since recreational sex isn't a disease, you feel that provides a justification for dropping coverage from medical insurance plans.

Assuming your argument is, as you've stated, solely financial in nature then consider this: If people stopped taking birth control pills then the birth rate would increase. I mean there's a window during which emergency contraception is effective and there's a window in which a pregnancy test will give a result. These windows don't overlap, so on the one hand people having regular sex will be eating a lot of plan B in your perfect world, or getting a lot of abortions or having lots of expensive pregnancies. What do you think that will do to your premiums?

I also find it noteworthy that you're cool with your premiums being inflated by stuff like bonuses for boards of directors - but then I guess you're getting fucked by them, so your criterion for acceptability is presumably met there.

It's not just about dollars and cents Bert. It's about a philosophy of personal responsibility and choice. I will not deny people help, but I will not force help down their throats either. People know that if you insert penis into vagina pregnancy might ensue. Birth control is cheap and widely available. It should not be necessary for me to bribe people to take care of themselves.

You can probably find all kinds of reason for why it makes sense from a wider perspective, but in the end of the day it's just a plain wrong way to go about it.

Very well said. Birth control is the cheaper option. I personally don't like the thought of how much premiums would rise from all the pregnancies if birth control wasn't covered.

So do what's cheap rather than what's right?

Apparently, StrangeLife never got laid in the Sixties.

You need to be born before you can get laid. But I wish I had been around. Hot hippie chicks, free love, acid trips, no need to ever get a haircut, V8's, cheap gas... just grooving all over the place http://s27.postimg.org/3yep79qhb/cool1.gif

Somebody get me a time machine!

 

[Sean Renaud]

Hopefully is is tone less and less but late term abortion is not a myth.

Yes it is. Just like rape babies are a myth. Bringing either into the conversation is just dishonest. The only thing that need be discussed is whether in the first trimester people should be allowed to decide they can't afford a baby. All the rest is just details meant to get people emotional about shit that doesn't happen.

 

[Bert_Fegg]

There is no reality. There is only perception.





The UK - the home of the most complex CCTV networks on the planet with automatic face- and licence-plate recognition. Originally expanded massively in the 90ties in order to combat terrorism. Did you know that it's used for collecting unpaid parking ticket today? It's amazing how things like this starts out as an extreme measure and once you start down the slippery slope it just kinda "grows on you" and you accept it when they start fining you for jaywalking or littering with the cameras as evidence.

Here is a statement from a former British PM which would have been political suicide in the US but was accepted in Britain without much fuzz....




You see Bert, you Brits are way too nice and - as is common in Europe - you trust your government to do he right thing. And your government has so far turned your large cities into the friggin Truman Show. Do I see any enraged Brits marching the streets shooting out cameras? So do I believe that it would be political suicide for a British government to initiate selective population control? Not in a million years.

But tax the tea and you have a riot on your hands...










It's not just about dollars and cents Bert. It's about a philosophy of personal responsibility and choice. I will not deny people help, but I will not force help down their throats either. People know that if you insert penis into vagina pregnancy might ensue. Birth control is cheap and widely available. It should not be necessary for me to bribe people to take care of themselves.

You can probably find all kinds of reason for why it makes sense from a wider perspective, but in the end of the day it's just a plain wrong way to go about it.







So do what's cheap rather than what's right?






You need to be born before you can get laid. But I wish I had been around. Hot hippie chicks, free love, acid trips, no need to ever get a haircut, V8's, cheap gas... just grooving all over the place http://s27.postimg.org/3yep79qhb/cool1.gif

Somebody get me a time machine!

All the points you started arguing with have been addressed and you're coming back with stuff you've pulled out of your arse - My guess is that the real reason you're against the provision of birth control has nothing whatsoever to do with your stated reasons - But thanks for the lecture on what's wrong with my country

 

[Fata Morgana]

Hmmmm.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/foxkitsune/tumblr_m97kjzOaGn1qkrirro1_500_zpse3c27bb1.gif

 

[RobDownSouth]

Something to consider...

http://www.mccl.org/Page.aspx?pid=400

You seem to have control issues with women.

 

[bg23]

this thread is full of people who are excellent arguments for birth control.

 

[Fata Morgana]

this thread is full of people who are excellent arguments for birth control.

Ohfuckingyes. Makes me want to smash my ovaries in with a hammer.

 

[FGB]

You seem to have control issues with women.

Not really .

I let them do as they please.

And if it doesn't please me too, then we have a problem in which my last resort is to saturate them with my absence.

I'm fairly open about my views on things but I don't require other people to have the same viewpoint.

You know...if you would stop trying to force your preconceived notion of the kind of person I am on me, you might be surprised at who you find tapping on this keyboard.

just saying.

 

[StrangeLife]

That birth control is for recreational sex is certainly the reason why Hobby Lobby and others don't want to pay for birth control is certainly true, but it isn't about the money. (Hence viagra vs bc is not a relevant comparison.) The real goal is to bring back extreme consequences to casual sex in order to bolster the family unit back to the days preceding feminism.

Your ideas are interesting but I suspect you're over-interpreting this whole thing. I don't sense a big misogynistic master plan behind this issue. Birth control still exists and isn't going anywhere.

All this is about is who pays for it.

All of this is to say that Hobby Lobby's stance is one of what is annoyingly called "slut shaming"... I am not saying that I agree with them, but I do see their point. They want to go back to the days in which women thought long and hard about who they were going to fuck, and assessed men by more than how sexually appealing he is. Because if you got pregnant, your life was screwed. And since 20% of the single men out there are having 80% of the casual sex, lots of "regular" guys are being left out in the cold. Lack of contraception would bring the regular guys back into the game.

The regular guys will never dominate the game. Girls invariably go for douches - they did so before the sexual revolution, they do so today and they will do so in the future. Birth control or no birth control.

All the points you started arguing with have been addressed and you're coming back with stuff you've pulled out of your arse - My guess is that the real reason you're against the provision of birth control has nothing whatsoever to do with your stated reasons - But thanks for the lecture on what's wrong with my country

I did not intend to lecture you Bert - however you opened that line of reasoning yourself by holding up the UK system as proof that my concerns are invalid. You were essentially sitting in a glass house throwing stones. The UK is a bad analogy for the US for a lot of reasons, but the most visible difference is the status of the government.

If it seems like I'm repeating myself sometimes, it might be because people keep throwing the same arguments at me. Sorry about that - but there are only so many different ways to skin a cat...

 

[StrangeLife]

Ohfuckingyes. Makes me want to smash my ovaries in with a hammer.

That'll work too....