Will Ukraine situation lead to World War III?

[unregistered]

 

[Wrong Element]

I hate to say it but I have my doubts the US under the present regime will go to war in Europe for any reason. FDR gave 100 million people, not including the Chinese, to Communism. Democrats today are just as naive about Putin as FDR was about Stalin, I see little on that side of the aisle that would lead me to believe that they wouldn't just beat their gums about an invasion of Estonia and then shrug their shoulders and forget it. Who thought a year ago that Putin would invade Ukraine and get away with it?

"I looked the man [Putin] in the eye. I found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy. We had a very good dialogue. I was able to get a sense of his soul, a man deeply committed to his country and the best interests of his country ... I wouldn't have invited him to my ranch if I didn't trust him." -- noted Democrat George W. Bush

 

[Scotsman69]

Deary me

You don't appear to be very knowledgeable about the trade partners of your country.

Note that these figures are from the US Census Bureau:

http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/highlights/top/top1312yr.html

In case you can't count, they show that of the USA's top fifteen trade partners, 5 (Germany, UK, France, Netherlands and Italy) were in the EU, and totalled 11.8% of US international trade. Add non-EU Switzerland's 1.4%, and of the top 15 US trade partners, 12.2% were in Europe.

The largest single US trade partners were Canada (16.4%), China (14.6%), and Mexico (13.2%). If other European countries are included, it seems probable that Europe is the US's third trade partner, after Canada and China.

So don't be so silly as to ignore the importance of Europe in the US's foreign trade relations.

But then, I have learned many years ago that mere reality is ignored when deeply-held prejudices are challenged.

You stick to your prejudices. Me, I'd rather that my political opinions are informed by facts. It's easier to change a prejudice than change reality.

Of the fifteen largest US trade partners, the US was a net exporter to only two: Brazil and the Netherlands.

Well to begin with if I was going to study foreign economic or political matters it would be South America or Asia, China in particular. They are far more important to the US than Europe.

However on a personal note.....Fuck European matters. Enough American blood was spilled over Europe in 2 World Wars.

 

[trysail]

Not true, the American standard wasn't the annexation of either.

The U.S. doesn't exactly hold the moral high ground in the annals of territorial expansion.

​

 

[Scotsman69]

I've just looked into this further...

According to this Wiki entry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_the_United_States

'As single economy, the EU is the largest trading partner of the US with $367.8 billion worth of EU goods going to the US and $268.6 billion of US goods going to the EU as of 2011, totalling approximately $636.4 billion in total trade.'

I know, Wiki can be a dodgy source of information at times. But it sources this info from US Census Bureau 'Trade with European Union 2011'.

Check it out yourselves if you don't believe me.

You can study China and Latin America all you want. But 'facts are chiels that winna ding'. (Approx tr: you can't argue with facts.) (Quote from an internationally loved Scots poet, at least one verse of one of whose many songs most readers of this will know.)

You don't appear to be very knowledgeable about the trade partners of your country.

Note that these figures are from the US Census Bureau:

http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/highlights/top/top1312yr.html

In case you can't count, they show that of the USA's top fifteen trade partners, 5 (Germany, UK, France, Netherlands and Italy) were in the EU, and totalled 11.8% of US international trade. Add non-EU Switzerland's 1.4%, and of the top 15 US trade partners, 12.2% were in Europe.

The largest single US trade partners were Canada (16.4%), China (14.6%), and Mexico (13.2%). If other European countries are included, it seems probable that Europe is the US's third trade partner, after Canada and China.

So don't be so silly as to ignore the importance of Europe in the US's foreign trade relations.

But then, I have learned many years ago that mere reality is ignored when deeply-held prejudices are challenged.

You stick to your prejudices. Me, I'd rather that my political opinions are informed by facts. It's easier to change a prejudice than change reality.

Of the fifteen largest US trade partners, the US was a net exporter to only two: Brazil and the Netherlands.

 

[Dazzle1]

The U.S. doesn't exactly hold the moral high ground in the annals of territorial expansion.

​

Oh really

Despite all the claims of the Bush bashers, american did not take over the Iraq oil fields when we liberated the country

 

[phrodeau]

Oh really

Despite all the claims of the Bush bashers, american did not take over the Iraq oil fields when we liberated the country

Liberated? Is that what you call it?

 

[snugglestruggle]

Tsk Tsk now don't be unpleasant . Scotty your probably a good economist in your own right. However since these guys have done more than right by me over the years I'm going to stick with their economic views. http://mobius.blog.franklintempleton.com/2014/01/06/emerging-markets-2014-outlook-shaping-the-next-decade/

 

[Liar]

The U.S. doesn't exactly hold the moral high ground in the annals of territorial expansion.

​

When was the last time the United States gained territory? Sure, invaded and occupied, but that's not the same as saying, "this is now America".

And on that note, when was the last time a country took internationally recognised territory from another country by force? It's just so... old school.

Russia in S Ossetia comes to mind, but I'm fuzzy on the details... does Kremlin consider it Ruski territory now like they do with Crimea?

 

[snugglestruggle]

Liberated? Is that what you call it?

Thank You Phrodeau for making that point . It's no coincidence every time "somebody" wants to go plunder the resources of another country or region a conflict is started in the name of Liberty or Freedom?

 

[Dazzle1]

Liberated? Is that what you call it?

So would the Kurds

 

[Scotsman69]

I wasn't trying to be unpleasant...

... just pointing out that whatever the future may bring, right now Europe is the USA's biggest, most stable, and consistently democratic trade partner. And is likely to remain so for a very long time.

Tiananmen Square is a very long way from Europe. Its effects still resound in China. And nowhere in Latin America or Africa has a long track record in either democracy or political stability. In Asia, only India has a sustained track record in democracy for over sixty-five years, but has had its wobbly moments during that time. I'd put more money on India as a reliably growing trade partner than on China. If I was a betting man, which I'm not.

So you're left with Canada, Australia and New Zealand as stable trade partners, other than Europe.

As an auld Scots leftie, I desperately hope for, and have spent much of my life campaigning for, improvements in the lives of Asian, African, Middle-eastern and Latin American citizens. I've done it for long enough to know that political promises can be attractive, but real sustained change comes slowly

Tsk Tsk now don't be unpleasant . Scotty your probably a good economist in your own right. However since these guys have done more than right by me over the years I'm going to stick with their economic views. http://mobius.blog.franklintempleton.com/2014/01/06/emerging-markets-2014-outlook-shaping-the-next-decade/

 

[Wrong Element]

The U.S. doesn't exactly hold the moral high ground in the annals of territorial expansion.

​

Hey, we got Alaska the old-fashioned American way: we bought it.

On a serious note, Putin keeps bringing up Kosovo as an analog to what he's up to in Crimea. That might be on point if, you know, Kosovo had become the 51st state.

 

[Scotsman69]

PS to BBG1970:

The combined populations of Canada, Australia and New Zealand are less than the UK. Even though Canada is the second largest country in the world, and Australia is not far behind. In area.

 

[Byron In Exile]

So you don't believe the CIA-sourced stats I offered you?

There are many ways of comparing relative international wealth, but most economists believe GDP per capita is the most reliable. As apparently does the CIA.

GDP per capita

US $52,800
Ireland $46,000
Germany $44,300
France $41,700
UK $39,600
Japan $38,500
EU $33,500
Spain $28,600
Chile $16,400
Russia $14,600
Mexico $10,600
China $6,800
Ukraine $3,800
India $1,500

 

[Scotsman69]

And your source for this Naughtius?

I have been careful to quote reputable sources for every assertion I've made. They include US Census, IMF, World Bank and the CIA. All of them put US GDP per capita as between 10th and 14th in world rankings.

Yours look like they come from Fox 'News'.

Substantiate your claim please? For your own credibility, if for no other reason.

GDP per capita

US $52,800
Ireland $46,000
Germany $44,300
France $41,700
UK $39,600
Japan $38,500
EU $33,500
Spain $28,600
Chile $16,400
Russia $14,600
Mexico $10,600
China $6,800
Ukraine $3,800
India $1,500

 

[Byron In Exile]

I have been careful to quote reputable sources for every assertion I've made. They include US Census, IMF, World Bank and the CIA. All of them put US GDP per capita as between 10th and 14th in world rankings.

Yours look like they come from Fox 'News'.

Substantiate your claim please? For your own credibility, if for no other reason.

CIA Factbook.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Scotsman69]

You'd better provide a link, Naughtius.

I have already provided a link to a CIA table which puts the USA much lower in world per capita GDP ratings. And the World Bank, IMF, and UN say much the same.

So prove your assertion. I'm not a professional economist for nothing. There may be gullible mugs on the GB, but I'm not one of them.

CIA Factbook.

 

[jeninflorida]

what this taught us that obama is a pussy and is now OWNED by Putin

 

[jeninflorida]

PS to BBG1970:

The combined populations of Canada, Australia and New Zealand are less than the UK. Even though Canada is the second largest country in the world, and Australia is not far behind. In area.

Maybe when China comes in to take over America, as they will to collect on the obama debt, we American's can move to Canada. not much longer before America heads into foreclosure.

 

[Byron In Exile]

I have already provided a link to a CIA table which puts the USA much lower in world per capita GDP ratings. And the World Bank, IMF, and UN say much the same.

So prove your assertion. I'm not a professional economist for nothing. There may be gullible mugs on the GB, but I'm not one of them.

Jesus Christ Almighty, you really are dumb as a post.

If you're a professional anything, then I'm an emperor.

 

[Scotsman69]

Which only goes to prove

That you're fairly free with your assertions, and very poor on backup for them.

I've already posted a link to CIA stats which say the USA is far from the top of the league table of nations, by GDP per capita.

Jesus Christ Almighty, you really are dumb as a post.

You're no emperor. I am a professional economist, have been for forty years. Which is why I ALWAYS substantiate my assertions with reliable stats. You don't get to meet two UK PMs, and innumerable Cabinet Ministers, otherwise. In the old-world UK, reliable and provable facts count. Maybe they don't in your wee world.



If you're a professional anything, then I'm an emperor.

 

[Lovelynice]

Oh really

Despite all the claims of the Bush bashers, american did not take over the Iraq oil fields when we liberated the country

They bombed the crap out the civilian population, destroyed the infrastructure such as power supplies and water, then forced a puppet regime to agree to sweet monopolistic deals with USA corporations.

You're definitely not living in the real world.

 

[Scotsman69]

Dear Naughtius,

If you're not an emperor, then what post do you hold which entitles you to fling alleged 'facts' about, without having the courage (or maybe ability) to give us the link which substantiates them?

Me, I've been working hard all day, and will again tomorrow. My visits to the GB are in my spare time, in a busy and responsible life. It's after 11pm here. Goodnight.