Will Ukraine situation lead to World War III?

[unregistered]

 

[Beco]

Putin seems to be pulling back as we speak. I wonder how much of that had to do with the two biggest billionaires in Russia losing 3.2 billion on the New York Stock Exchange yesterday.

The threat of a major world-wide boycott probably got to him...

 

[KingOrfeo]

The threat of a major world-wide boycott probably got to him...

Or perhaps just a visit from some nice gentlemen who work for those two billionaires and can pick their teeth with Putin's bodyguards . . . That seems to be the Russian way these days . . .

 

[renard_ruse]

Putin seems to be pulling back as we speak. I wonder how much of that had to do with the two biggest billionaires in Russia losing 3.2 billion on the Stock Exchanges yesterday.

I don't think so. The whole operation is very well organized. Russia hasn't officially occupied anything. Its local self-defense militias who are in operational control of Crimea, Russian troops (*wink, wink* ?) have not even been involved yet.

The real question is what happens if/when Ukrainian forces or irregulars loyal to the new regime in Kiev arrive in Crimea and attempt to take back the peninsula by force.

Also, what happens after the March 30 referendum, if Crimeans vote for independence or to join the Russian Federation? Will Ukraine or the west try to stop them? Russia can move to protect their independence in the same way that NATO did in Kosovo.

Russia could also use Crimea as leverage to keep Ukraine from joining NATO. I wouldn't be surprised if Putin threw Crimea under the bus by trading it back to Ukraine in exchange for Ukraine committing to neutrality.

 

[KingOrfeo]

I don't think so. The whole operation is very well organized. Russia hasn't officially occupied anything. Its local self-defense militias who are in operational control of Crimea, Russian troops (*wink, wink* ?) have not even been involved yet.

Yeah, about that . . . vette, if you know, what are the laws/rules of war regarding use of national troops in uniform but with no insignia, flags, or other visible identification as to nationality or affiliation?

 

[BotanyBoy]

We could have repeated Bush's strategy of giving the money directly to the poor if you prefered though as much as I don't like it it's probably more efficient to unfuck the rich situation and let them do what they do.

Now in the mean time we should have started breaking up those companies and putting controls into place but hey you can only ask so much of Americans.

How did bush give the money directly to the poor? Millions lost their homes while chief executives of the companies who caused all this shit in the first fucking place all got a multimillion dollar bonus of tax payer money, FOR BEING FIRED!!!

When the fuck did anyone get a hundred million dollar severance package for crashing their companies and being fired from anywhere??? Oh right that only happens in banking and auto industry when the tax payer is footing the bill.

Hate it or don't but I think the money would have been better spent keeping families in homes, not making the riches assholes on Earth Richer.

Oh ok, I'm just saying its why Russia wants the Ukraine and won't ever let it go....

Right on....still no reason to beef.

Regardless, Russia signed a treaty and is in violation of it right now.

Still sounds like a Russia/Ukraine problem....

 

[renard_ruse]

The "west" is threatening to employ its usual economic bullying and blackmail. Its already threatening its usual childish "sanctions" against Russia (who hasn't done anything, and is NOT even occupying Ukraine despite the media lies).

Sadly, its the "west" who will be hurt if they start a trade war with Russia. Russia can shut off Europe's gas supply.

 

[renard_ruse]

Russia is not some small third world country that can be bullied or destroyed with economic violence.

The "west" will lose a trade war with Russia.

 

[renard_ruse]

Yeah, about that . . . vette, if you know, what are the laws/rules of war regarding use of national troops in uniform but with no insignia, flags, or other visible identification as to nationality or affiliation?

Crimea can dress its self-defense units anyway it wishes on its own territory.

 

[neci]

putin controls his cock. it is finely tuned. just get him to cough it up.

 

[eyer]

The "west" is threatening to employ its usual economic bullying and blackmail. Its already threatening its usual childish "sanctions" against Russia (who hasn't done anything, and is NOT even occupying Ukraine despite the media lies).

Sadly, its the "west" who will be hurt if they start a trade war with Russia. Russia can shut off Europe's gas supply.

Russia is not some small third world country that can be bullied or destroyed with economic violence.

The "west" will lose a trade war with Russia.

Crimea can dress its self-defense units anyway it wishes on its own territory.

Poutin' for Putin...

...btw, ruse: it's not "Crimea" "territory", it's Ukrainian territory.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Adre]

Once again Kissinger proves he's smarter than Renardo Ruse.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Once again Kissinger proves he's smarter than Renardo Ruse.

Most folks have had bowel movements smarter than Retard Ruse.

Kissinger says that the Ukraine should not join NATO. All well and good, but he never says exactly why this should not happen.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Crimea can dress its self-defense units anyway it wishes on its own territory.

But we're almost certainly talking about Russian troops in Ukrainian territory with uniforms but no insignia.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Sean Renaud]

Most folks have had bowel movements smarter than Retard Ruse.

Kissinger says that the Ukraine should not join NATO. All well and good, but he never says exactly why this should not happen.

I think the obvious implied answer is that joining NATO automatically makes Ukraine an "enemy" of Russia something Russia will likely never accept and will react agressively to. Better to leave then a neutral state that everybody collectively agrees "hands off".

I'm not sure if I agree or not but it seems obvious why he thinks that.

 

[Adre]

Ostensibly because doing so violated his theme of compromise among the demographic factions, and might be considered a provocation to the Russians that might foster a destabilizing "institutional hostility."

Agreed, and Ukraine really brings nothing to NATO except a lousy economy and a sharply divided citizenry.

 

[unregistered]

 

[snugglestruggle]

All it takes is one misstep to start a war. When you have Colonel Klink sitting in the white-house as the Commander in Chief anything is possible.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I'm sure if we had Warsaw Pact military units sitting on the Mexican border, we'd understand.

They would probably be Polish soldiers who have lost their way, but I don't believe they would be considered a threat.

 

[eyer]

All it takes is one misstep to start a war. When you have Colonel Klink sitting in the white-house as the Commander in Chief anything is possible.

IGGY for being so stupid...

...Obama's Kenyan, not German.

 

[renard_ruse]

Robert Gates says that Russia will keep Crimea.

Former Defense Secretary Robert Gates predicted Sunday that Russia will take control of the Crimea region of Ukraine during its political upheaval and suggested that section of the country is lost to Kiev and the Western world.

"You think Crimea's gone?" “Fox News Sunday” host Chris Wallace asked.

"I do," Gates replied. "I do not believe that Crimea will slip out of Russia's hand."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/09/gates-crimea-will-slip-into-russia-hands/

 

[renard_ruse]

I think its more a question of what the Crimean people want. They will vote on March 16th and let their voice be heard.

The problem with Crimea joining Russia is that you weaken the Russian speaking population, and especially the ethnic Russian population in Ukraine, by several million people. This does nothing to keep the western Ukrainians from dragging the millions of remaining eastern and southern Ukranians into the EU, or stop NATO from setting up shop on Russia's border.

I still predict that President Putin will "trade" Crimea back to Ukraine in exchange for it agreeing not to join the EU or NATO, even if Crimeans vote to join Russia. The only other thing I can see is that Russia feels the strategic or economic value in Crimea is enough to justify losing Ukraine as a whole to the "west."

Perhaps there is a longterm plan to turn the entire region from Abkhazia along the black sea coast to Crimea into a major tourist region. I think the longterm plan is to turn Sochi into a Monaco of the Black Sea, and perhaps the entire region into a series of "destination" resorts, similar to what Spain has done.

 

[renard_ruse]

Crimeans vote March 16

Although many feel its a given that Crimea will vote to join Russia, polls in the past have been far from clear on the issue. According to Wikipedia, in a poll early last year ago a plurality of around 45% supported joining Russia, with just under a third opposed, and the remainder undecided. The question of independence rather than annexation to Russia appears not to have been asked.

A lot will depend on the wording of the referendum. Originally, the choices were to offer increased autonomy within Ukraine, independence, or annexation to Russia. I don't know if it would be one question or separate questions. I also saw somewhere the wording would simply be to assert "sovereignty" similar to the ambiguous question that Quebec nationalists use, leaving final status unclear.

The exact wording will need to be agreed upon immediately, as ballots need to be printed and distributed within days.