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That Pipeline

trysail said:


Congratulations. This is the damage you've caused (see article below)— so far. You've diverted the shipment of petroleum to the railroads— which, of course, is far less energy efficient than pipeline transportation. This is merely the first result of your kneejerk ignorance and intransigence. Canada will eventually export the Athabaskan oil sand petroleum to Asia.


______________

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-08/buffett-railroad-sees-crude-cargo-climbing-40-.html



Buffett Railroad Sees Crude Cargo Climbing 40%
By Tim Catts and Noah Buhayar
January 8, 2013
Click to expand...

" We've" caused no damage

BC still wont allow it for multiple reasons

1. Our government is still being shouldered with the weight of envoirnmental damges that will inevitably occur when a spill happens.. and it will.. so foar 4 " unspillable" piples have already had major spills


2. Nearly 60% of the pipleline travels through BC.. yet we're getting the smallest share of the profits

3. The oil company in question has already been discovered to have been giving out fraudulent research on damage assesment...case in point... during a demonstration of how the pipleline would run through uninhabited areas away from wildlife as well, the company delibereately erased hundreds of islands from the map..many of them inhabited, that were on the route


4. Our province is being screwed by getting the smallest share of the profits.. we lag even behind Ontario which will be literally thousands of miles away from the pipeline.. we're being fucked in the ass and being expected to thankful for it


untill our concerns are adressed....it simply won't happen


just because you believe Big Oil's PR department.. doesnt mean you know what the fuck you're talking about.......................again
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/19/o...o-fix-climate-change.html?smid=tw-share&_r=1&




How Not to Fix Climate Change

by Joe Nocera
New York Times
19 February, 2013

...In fact, [approving the Keystone XL pipeline] should be a no-brainer for the president, for all the reasons I stated earlier, and one more: the strategy of activists like McKibben, Brune and Hansen, who have made the Keystone pipeline their line in the sand, is utterly boneheaded...



http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/19/o...o-fix-climate-change.html?smid=tw-share&_r=1&
Click to expand...
 


Stupidity reigns supreme in the United States.

A pipeline is, of course, much, much safer and cheaper— not to mention more ecologically friendly. But the enviro-morons like Bill McKibben and James Hansen (of NASA, for god's sake) have appointed themselves Saviors Of The Planet.

____________________

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...ates-jobs-as-buffett-puffs-chest-freight.html



Oil Riding Rails Creates Jobs as Buffett Puffs Chest
By Jeff Kearns
March 13, 2013

For all the debate over building the Keystone XL pipeline, the oil is moving without it.

Railroads such as Warren Buffett’s Burlington Northern Santa Fe LLC are the rolling alternative, keeping oil flowing from the Bakken in North Dakota to refineries along the Texas Gulf Coast, as the White House deliberates on the fate of TransCanada Corp.’s petroleum artery.

They’re boosting employment in the process: Rail transportation payrolls have climbed by 9.1 percent, a pace more than twice as fast as total job growth, since the end of 2009.

“Its having a ripple effect that’s really creating jobs and wealth and investment opportunities,” said Charles Clowdis, the managing director for transportation advisory services at IHS Global Insight Inc. in Lexington, Massachusetts. “There’s so much crude being produced that can’t be piped. These guys are putting real dollars in the bank each week and railroads are making a darn good profit on hauling this in tank cars.”

Crude oil shipments by rail jumped 256 percent in 2012 to a record 233,811 carloads, or 167 million barrels, the Association of American Railroads said Feb. 21. That’s equivalent to more than 7 percent of U.S. production, up from 2.3 percent in 2011, according to AAR and Energy Department data compiled by Bloomberg.

The U.S. expanded oil production last year by 766,000 barrels a day last year, the biggest jump since the first commercial well was drilled in 1859 in Titusville, Pennsylvania, according to the Energy Department.

The oil boom on rails is driving returns for Buffett and other investors who bet on railroads as President Barack Obama considers whether to allow Calgary-based TransCanada’s $5.3 billion Keystone pipeline linking Alberta and Nebraska. It would allow for a final flow of 830,000 barrels of crude a day.

Faster Rails
Railroad stocks have outpaced the broader market in the past year. The Standard and Poor’s Supercomposite Railroads Index, which consists of Union Pacific Corp., CSX Corp, Norfolk Southern Corp., Kansas City Southern and Genesee & Wyoming Inc., has advanced about 24 percent in the past year, compared with a 13 percent gain in the S&P 500 Index. (SPX)

Earnings at railroads in the S&P 500 increased about three times as much as the broader gauge, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Profits for companies in the rail index rose 16 percent in 2012 compared with 5.2 percent for the S&P 500.

“Rails provide the flexibility of being able to deliver the crude extracted from the shale to different locations,” said Ben Hartford, a transportation analyst at Robert W Baird & Co. in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, who recommends buying Union Pacific and CSX shares. “People are focusing on the Keystone pipeline and its development but there’s still receptivity to using rail.”

Cheaper Domestically
One reason is that oil from the Bakken costs about $17-per- barrel less than Brent crude, the international benchmark. The difference means companies will pay the extra $10 to have a barrel of cheaper domestic crude oil shipped via rail to their refinery, rather than take delivery of the international petroleum.

Among those with the most to gain are BNSF, the railroad Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway Inc. took over three years ago in a $26.5 billion deal, and Union Pacific, the largest U.S. railroad by sales. BNSF said in January it will boost crude shipments by 40 percent this year. John Ambler, a spokesman for BNSF, didn’t return a phone call seeking comment yesterday.

Fort Worth, Texas-based BNSF’s 40 percent market share for hauling petroleum products in the U.S. and Canada in 2013 is the largest among the seven largest railroads, according to data compiled by Bloomberg Industries. Canadian National Railway Co. is second with 21 percent, followed by Union Pacific at 15 percent and Canadian Pacific Railway Ltd. at 12 percent, the data show. CSX, Norfolk Southern, and Kansas City Southern handle less than 4 percent.

Buffett Letter
Buffett said in his annual letter to shareholders March 1 that Berkshire will gain from more oil production. He highlighted demand for rolling stock made by Berkshire’s Union Tank Car, which traces its roots to John D. Rockefeller’s Standard Oil Trust. Staffing for manufacturing has more than doubled since the lows of 2009 and 2010, company spokesman Bruce Winslow said.

Buffett said to watch for the UTLX logo.

“As a Berkshire shareholder, you own the cars with that insignia,” he wrote to investors in his Omaha, Nebraska-based company. “When you spot a UTLX car, puff out your chest a bit and enjoy the same satisfaction that John D. Rockefeller undoubtedly experienced as he viewed his fleet a century ago.”

Union Pacific
Union Pacific said Jan. 24 that increased petroleum shipments helped boost fourth-quarter net income by 7.5 percent to $1.04 billion. The Omaha-based company said in a presentation that petroleum shipments jumped 69 percent last year from 2011. Oil and gas account for 29 percent of volume.

Union Pacific last year was able to assuage a 14 percent decline in the volume of coal deliveries with increased oil shipments, along with housing materials and autos.

“We saw significant growth in crude oil shipments, up over three-fold compared to 2011,” Union Pacific Chief Financial Officer Robert Knight said at a March 5 conference.

Canadian National, the Montreal-based railroad that’s the nation’s largest, has said it may move twice as many carloads of crude oil this year than last.

Gulf Coast
“A lot of it is going down to the Gulf Coast, so we’re adding infrastructure there,” Canadian National Chief Financial Officer Luc Jobin said on a Feb. 14 conference call. “And there’s no reason why this pace couldn’t be sustained for a couple of more years.”

The latest American oil rush was spurred by new technology that has made drilling faster, cheaper and better at unleashing oil from rock formations, called hydraulic fracturing, or fracking.

Fracking is transforming the U.S. northern plains states and Canada’s prairie provinces. The Bakken oil formation, part of a larger geologic region called the Williston Basin, has turned North Dakota into America’s second-largest crude producer, following Texas and ahead of Alaska. Output has more than tripled over the past three years to 769,000 barrels a day in December, according to Energy Department data.

Proponents of the Keystone XL pipeline, which would link Canadian oil sands to the U.S. Gulf Coast, say it will create jobs, while opponents say it would speed up oil-sands development and intensify global warming.

Railroad Employment
As the Obama administration considers approval, railroad employment has already been climbing. Since the end of 2009, rail transportation payrolls have climbed more than twice the 4.4 percent gain in overall job growth, according to Labor Department statistics.

The U.S. State Department, which has authority over the pipeline because it crosses the border, said in a March 1 environmental assessment report the pipeline would have little impact on the pace of oil-sands expansion, a sentiment echoed by TransCanada. Even if all the proposed pipelines were delayed, oil-sands development would continue because crude can move by rail, Alex Pourbaix, president of TransCanada’s energy and oil pipelines, said in an interview March 5.




http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...ates-jobs-as-buffett-puffs-chest-freight.html
Click to expand...
 
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...-seen-as-risking-more-oil-spills-by-rail.html




Killing Keystone Seen as Risking More Oil Spills by Rail
By Rebecca Penty and Jim Efstathiou Jr.
April 8, 2013


A rejection of the Keystone XL pipeline by President Barack Obama would push more of Canada’s $73 billion oil exports onto trains, which register almost three times more spills than pipelines.

The March 29 rupture of an Exxon Mobil Corp. oil pipeline in Mayflower, Arkansas, provided the latest evidence for opponents citing the risk of environmental contamination in their efforts to scuttle the Keystone XL project, an almost 2,000-mile pipeline linking Alberta’s oil sands with the world’s largest refining market on the U.S. Gulf Coast. The alternative, hauling crude by rail, may be worse, said Charles Ebinger, director of the Brookings Institution’s energy security initiative.

A U.S. denial of Keystone XL this year would “undoubtedly” result in more oil spills by trains, Ebinger said in a phone interview. Trains’ higher accident rate comes mainly from leaking rail car equipment, spill records show.

“The evidence is so overwhelming that railroads are far less safe than pipelines, that it would be a serious mistake to use these recent spills to say that Keystone is unsafe,” he said. Brookings is a Washington-based nonprofit that says it supports economic and social welfare and a strong American democracy.

The U.S. State Department, which has jurisdiction over TransCanada Corp’s $5.3 billion pipeline project because it crosses an international border, is expected to make a recommendation to Obama by September.

Buffett Benefit
Shipping more supplies by rail would lead to higher costs for oil producers because train shipments are more expensive than pipelines. Warren Buffett’s Burlington Northern Santa Fe LLC (BNI) is among U.S. and Canadian railroads that stand to benefit should Obama reject the pipeline.

As oil supplies build in both the U.S. and Canada, producers have turned increasingly to rail as they wait for pipelines to carry their crude to market. A debate over the safety of pipelines versus trains has been reignited by the Exxon spill and two railroad spills the same week, said Tony Hatch, an independent rail analyst based in New York.

Two Canadian Pacific Railway Ltd. train car derailments, on March 27 in Minnesota and April 3 in Ontario, spilled an estimated total of 757 barrels of oil.

Without Keystone, designed to carry 830,000 barrels a day of oil, shipments of Canadian crude by rail would rise an additional 42 percent by 2017, according to RBC Capital Markets.

‘Unintended Consequence’
“One of the unintended consequences of delaying Keystone XL is that more oil has been getting to markets in Canada and the United States using rail, truck and water-borne tankers,” Shawn Howard, a spokesman for TransCanada, said in an e-mail. “None of those methods of transportation are as safe as moving it by pipelines,” he said.

Railways suffer spills 2.7 times more often than pipelines, according to the Washington-based American Association of Railroads. The U.S. State Department, citing a 2012 study from the free-market Manhattan Institute, says trains spill 33 times more than pipelines. The railroad association calls that report “seriously flawed.”

Pipeline spills are typically four times larger than rail releases, according to Holly Arthur, a spokeswoman for the Washington-based American Association of Railroads. While both Canadian Pacific spills were related to derailments, 95 percent of U.S. spills result from problems with valves or fittings, she said.

Comparing Records
Comparing the safety record of railroads and pipelines is difficult, and both deliver more than 99 percent of products without incident. U.S. pipelines carried 474.6 billion gallons of crude and petroleum products in 2012 and reported 2.3 million gallons spilled, an effective rate of 0.0005 percent, according to John Stoody, spokesman for the Association of Oil Pipelines.

Over the entire decade ending with 2012, railroads hauled 11.2 billion gallons of crude with 95,256 gallons spilled, the majority from just one 2008 accident in Oklahoma that accounted for 81,103 gallons, according to the rail association.

Trains and pipelines can both move crude safely, according to Ed Greenberg, a spokesman for Canadian Pacific. The rail operator moved four times more crude in 2012 than a year earlier.

“Both pipeline and rail are highly regulated,” Greenberg said in a phone interview.

Pegasus Leak
Exxon’s Pegasus pipeline spill in Arkansas late last month leaked 3,500 to 5,000 barrels of crude, according to the U.S. Department of Transportation. Exxon transports more than 2.7 million barrels a day of oil and refined products, Alan Jeffers, an Exxon spokesman, said in a phone interview.

The pipeline-versus-rail safety debate began heating up after the State Department, in its March 1 environmental assessment of Keystone XL, said a denial of the pipeline would not block oil-sands development. Instead, most of the entire line’s capacity of 830,000 barrels a day would shift onto rail, according to the report.

“Rail has historically had a higher safety incident rate than pipelines, in terms of both fire/explosion and injuries,” the State Department said. The analysis cited the 2012 Manhattan Institute report which found that from 2005 through 2009, the spill rate for railroads hauling hazardous materials was 33 times higher than for pipelines.

Not accounted for in the Manhattan study is the different requirements for rail and pipelines in reporting spills, said Arthur, the railroad association spokeswoman. While pipelines don’t have to report any spill under 5 gallons, trains must. The study also undercounts the volume of other hazardous materials hauled by rail, inflating the spill rate.

Both Safe
When those measures are incorporated, the incident rate for railroads drops to 2.7 times that of pipelines, she said.

“Both are safe modes of moving crude,” Arthur said in a phone interview.

As modern oilfield technologies unlock vast crude resources across North America, from Pennsylvania to North Dakota, a lack of pipelines to carry all the new supplies has pushed more shipments onto rail. Train shipments of U.S. oil rose to 6.5 billion gallons in 2012, 21.4 percent more than the amount carried in 2009, according to the rail association.

As much as 425,000 barrels a day of Canadian crude will move on trains by 2017 if Keystone XL is denied, 3.7 times the current estimated 115,000 barrels a day that accounts for 5 percent of western Canada’s production, analysts at RBC Capital Markets estimated in an April 3 report. Rail may move 300,000 barrels if the pipeline is approved.

Rail has become an important -- and permanent -- part of the network moving oil to market, Darren Peers, managing director at NWQ Investment Management Co. in Los Angeles, said in a phone interview.

“To the extent that we don’t approve pipelines, rail is going to become an even more critical solution. And that isn’t the most economical solution, nor is it the safest,” Peers said.





http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...-seen-as-risking-more-oil-spills-by-rail.html
Click to expand...
 


This is why people despise Big Government, lobbyists, wacko enviros and Cancer On The Potomac (a/k/a The Mistake On The Potomac).

This whole fucking mess has nothing to do with building a goddamn pipeline. We already know there are thousands of miles of pipelines crossing the U.S. that have operated quite well for many decades.

This crap is just pure bullshit:


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-08/canadian-province-hires-company-with-ties-to-kerry.html




Ex-Obama Aide Duels Ex-Kerry Staffers Over Keystone
By Derek Wallbank and Mark Drajem
April 9, 2013

Supporters and opponents of the proposed Keystone XL pipeline have recruited former aides to Secretary of State John Kerry and President Barack Obama in dueling efforts to influence the White House.

Alberta -- the source of the oil sands that would be sent though TransCanada Corp.’s pipeline -- hired Boston-based public relations firm Rasky Baerlein Strategic Communications Inc. to promote the project, according to disclosure reports. Rasky Baerlein’s chairman, Larry Rasky, worked for Kerry’s first campaign for the U.S. Senate from Massachusetts in 1984, according to his biography on the firm’s website. Rasky also served as communications director for Vice President Joe Biden’s unsuccessful campaign for the 2008 Democratic presidential nomination.

Meanwhile, former White House aide Bill Burton is part of a new coalition of environmental groups opposing the pipeline. Burton, whose outside group raised $65 million in support of Obama’s re-election last year, said the “All Risk, No Reward Coalition” group is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to prod Democratic supporters of the president to push him to reject the pipeline.

“We have an electorate of one: President Obama,” Jane Kleeb, the head of BOLD Nebraska, a group fighting the pipeline, said on a conference call with Burton yesterday.

Increased Lobbying
The increased lobbying efforts reflect a growing urgency as the president’s decision on Keystone looms. Environmentalists view Keystone as a test of Obama’s sincerity about making climate change a priority in his second term after failing to advance legislation to cap carbon dioxide in his first. Republicans and some Democrats in Congress argue Keystone will create jobs and improve U.S. energy security.

The State Department and Obama must approve TransCanada’s petition before it can build the pipeline to carry oil sands from Alberta to refineries on the Gulf Coast. The State Department is collecting comments on its environmental assessment of the project, released last month.

“The groups in this ‘new coalition’ or the same old groups and professional activists who have been opposing Keystone XL for some time,” Shawn Howard, a spokesman for TransCanada, said in an e-mail responding to the Burton group’s announcement.

The pipeline is designed to carry about 830,000 barrels a day from Alberta and oil from shale rock formations in the U.S. along a route that would traverse six Great Plains states. The administration has previously given approval for the pipeline’s southern leg to relieve an oil glut in Cushing, Oklahoma.

Senate Resolution
The Senate on March 22 approved 62-37 a non-binding resolution encouraging the project’s development. A panel of the House of Representatives is considering its own pro-Keystone legislation tomorrow.

Also, this week, Alberta Premier Alison Redford, is scheduled to visit Washington to give a speech and to “meet with several legislators and administration officials on both sides of the Keystone debate,” her office said in a press release announcing the trip. It’s her fourth to Washington in 18 months.

In remarks at the Brookings Institution, a public-policy research center, Redford plans to describe the economic benefits to both nations if the U.S. permits construction of the Alberta- to-Texas pipeline, according to the press release.

Alberta is running advertisements in Washington-area newspapers over the next four days, as it seeks to emphasize its “strong environmental policy” and efforts to curb greenhouse- gas emissions, spokeswoman Neala Barton said.

Bypass Obama
Obama rejected TransCanada’s initial permit application in January 2012, inviting the company to re-apply with a route that didn’t cross an ecologically sensitive area of Nebraska. He told Republican senators last month that he plans to make a decision on the company’s revised application, which is opposed by environmentalists, by the end of this year.

In addition to Rasky, Alberta hired Mehlman Vogel Castagnetti to engage in “direct lobbying of U.S. government officials” on the Keystone project, according to a disclosure report. It will be paid $72,563 (C$74,000), with the contract running from March 15 to June 1, according to the filing.

The hiring of the Mehlman firm was filed with the U.S. Justice Department under the Foreign Agents Registration Act on March 20, and the Rasky Baerlein hiring was filed on April 3.

Two of the Mehlman firm’s principals have Republican ties: Bruce Mehlman was an assistant secretary of Commerce under President George W. Bush and general counsel to the House Republican Conference, and Alex Vogel was chief counsel to Tennessee Republican Bill Frist when he was Senate majority leader.

The Mehlman firm also has ties to Kerry. David Castagnetti is a Democratic strategist who was the main liaison to congressional leaders for Kerry’s 2004 presidential campaign.




http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-08/canadian-province-hires-company-with-ties-to-kerry.html
Click to expand...
 
You mean it isn't done yet, oh wait, are politicians involved, never mind.
 
trysail said:
This whole fucking mess has nothing to do with building a goddamn pipeline. We already know there are thousands of miles of pipelines crossing the U.S. that have operated quite well for many decades.
Click to expand...

how well have they really been operating?

Shell pipeline in texas last week spilling ~ 30,000 gallons

Mayflower, AR last week ~ 84,000gallons crude oil spilled from exxonmobil pipeline

keystone had 12 oil spills in 2010

there are lists of all the oil spills world wide that say pipelines do not function "quite well."

plus, with tar sands oil, the companies get out of paying taxes that go to the oil spill liability trust. tax free oil spills! not to mention a private foreign company coming in and taking property away from landowners.

oh wait, the fucking mess has nothing to do with pipelines. :rolleyes:
 
This is a thread about that awesome Sonic Youth Pipeline/Kill Time song, right?

Cause if not, it sucks.

Long live Lee Ranaldo!
 
http://nofrakkingconsensus.com/2013/04/15/oil-spills-by-the-numbers/




Opposition to oil pipelines has led to sharp increases in train transport. Not only is that method less safe, it costs significantly more.
By Donna Laframboise


...let us all be serious. If product A is safer than product B – and if it costs in the neighbourhood of three times less – in what universe does it make sense to choose product B anyway?


more...
http://nofrakkingconsensus.com/2013/04/15/oil-spills-by-the-numbers/
Click to expand...
 
Whats the big deal on pipeline spills...we had a train derail and spill 20,000 gallons last week.


And to BC, suck it up...you aren't producing anything. They just want it to travel through your crappy province to get to the boats
 
chillywilly2 said:
Whats the big deal on pipeline spills...we had a train derail and spill 20,000 gallons last week.


And to BC, suck it up...you aren't producing anything. They just want it to travel through your crappy province to get to the boats
Click to expand...

They do make some nice custom log homes in BC. If you can afford them.
 
Why pipleine the shit at all? Can't the Canadians refine it themselves and ship it from BC?
 
boyNextDoor2010 said:
Why pipleine the shit at all? Can't the Canadians refine it themselves and ship it from BC?
Click to expand...



That makes no sense. The refining capacity already exists in the U.S. The Athabaskan (and Bakken) crudes will displace Venezuelan and Mexican petroleum that is the current feedstock for Gulf Coast refineries.



 
Makes no sense to YOU.

Montreal has many refineries with excess capacity. Pipeline the shit there and refine it. Ship it out down the Hudson.

Don't they need jobs up in Canada?
 
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