How to make amends?

[blulilacgrl]

But consider this: I went after ms_intrigue because it was personal. Those who are fucking around have no worries from me, but should they worry about someone in their own lives wrecking havoc if their dalliances were discovered? Absolutely. That's just being prudent and realistic.

It's not about whether they should be worried about you. It is that you have made it abundantly clear that it can be done. You have crossed the line and suffered no punishment for it. What will stop the next person from doing it? Where is the line drawn? Will not the thinking be...well HH did it and he is still friend to one and all, so why shouldn't I take my revenge on XYZ.

I didn't out her here. Her posts are clear for everyone to see. By deleting her posts, she proved she was doing bad things...if she wasn't, there would be nothing to hide!

SNIP

But I didn't out her in the way that you are suggesting, which would include all her "real life" information. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe THAT is what the cardinal rule about outing is about.

Outing works in 2 ways. And someone please correct me if I am wrong. To out someone here-- which is to bring his/her RL information onto the boards. OR to take the information from the boards INTO RL.

 

[heavyhitter01]

It's not about whether they should be worried about you. It is that you have made it abundantly clear that it can be done. You have crossed the line and suffered no punishment for it. What will stop the next person from doing it? Where is the line drawn? Will not the thinking be...well HH did it and he is still friend to one and all, so why shouldn't I take my revenge on XYZ.

I didn't introduce anything new to the world. Of course there will be those who do the same thing I did. I'm not the first to do it and I am definitely not the last. Which makes me wonder...what's your point?

Outing works in 2 ways. And someone please correct me if I am wrong. To out someone here-- which is to bring his/her RL information onto the boards. OR to take the information from the boards INTO RL.

If taking information from the boards into real life is outing, then I am guilty as charged.

But so is the woman who discovered her husband was cheating and used the posts she found as fodder for her divorce. So is the husband who confronted his wife with the fact that he had figured out her username and her password, and is now going to confront her boyfriend because he got HIS information through PMs. Things like this happen ALL THE TIME.

 

[blulilacgrl]

I didn't introduce anything new to the world. Of course there will be those who do the same thing I did. I'm not the first to do it and I am definitely not the last. Which makes me wonder...what's your point?



If taking information from the boards into real life is outing, then I am guilty as charged.

But so is the woman who discovered her husband was cheating and used the posts she found as fodder for her divorce. So is the husband who confronted his wife with the fact that he had figured out her username and her password, and is now going to confront her boyfriend because he got HIS information through PMs. Things like this happen ALL THE TIME.

Possibly. But as you have stated, those who sit idly by... yadda yadda yadda. Perhaps this is our chance to condemn those actions. If we sit here and talk to you, are we not actively supporting that behavior?

And I would hesitate to mention. In both of those actions you mention husbands and wives. You were neither.

 

[heavyhitter01]

Possibly. But as you have stated, those who sit idly by... yadda yadda yadda. Perhaps this is our chance to condemn those actions. If we sit here and talk to you, are we not actively supporting that behavior?

So why are you still talking to me? Why are you engaging in this debate? Doesn't that mean you are supporting my behavior? After all, your posts are allowing this thread to get bigger, to get more views and to bring more people into the drama.

And I would hesitate to mention. In both of those actions you mention husbands and wives. You were neither.

No, I wasn't. But we are talking about cheating, and people getting outed, and jilted husbands or scorned wives seemed to fit well. I can come up with scenarios about boyfriends and girlfriends if it makes you feel better.

 

[ima6uldv8]

You're getting sucked into the vortex!!! Beware!!

Ha ha! I am. I've tried to quit but can't. Is there some sort of 12 step program for this? Now, to get some coffee and get caught up.

 

[Lord Pmann]

Blue's point is really being misunderstood, I think. I don't think she is outing you (HH) here. I think it's more towards the Lit community. HH broke a rule here on the site. Anonymity. We come here for a variety of different reasons. Some are sneaky. Some come here with their SO's permission. Some don't. But there is a spoken rule that, no matter what, anonymity should be respected. You willingly came here to deceive TL, at some point. You're taking stuff here, that is widely accepted as personal, and used it against her in real life. We all agree, that's shitty. That's why people sided with her, in your perception. It's sort of like when someone gets stopped by the cops for no good reason, then they have weed on them and try get busted. The fact that they have weed on them isn't the issue. It's the manner in which it was discovered. And that's why we dislike your actions HH.

Blu's admonishment is to the Lit community. For us to stop joking with you because, as you said, bad things happen when good men do nothing. Or something along those lines.

I hope I summed it up well. And I hope my interpretation is correct.

We are on a sex site. No matter what, trust and anonymity should be key. I'll never tell anyone how small your penis is HH. Never.

 

[blulilacgrl]

So why are you still talking to me? Why are you engaging in this debate? Doesn't that mean you are supporting my behavior? After all, your posts are allowing this thread to get bigger, to get more views and to bring more people into the drama.

Aren't I doing what you asked me to do? Shouldn't I actively condemn your behavior. If I find your behavior to be morally outrageous, isn't that my duty. Hasn't that been your whole point? You found TL's behavior so morally repugnant that you felt you had the right and duty to 'out' her.

And you were especially outraged that no one on the boards shared your fervor in denouncing her.

The difference between you and I? I will leave our disagreement here. I have made my point and will move on. I will live by the philosophy of to each his/her own. And I really won't blast those that defend you or don't share my view. Can you say the same?

 

[heavyhitter01]

We are on a sex site. No matter what, trust and anonymity should be key. I'll never tell anyone how small your penis is HH. Never.

And I am so incredibly grateful!

 

[heavyhitter01]

Aren't I doing what you asked me to do? Shouldn't I actively condemn your behavior. If I find your behavior to be morally outrageous, isn't that my duty. Hasn't that been your whole point? You found TL's behavior so morally repugnant that you felt you had the right and duty to 'out' her.

And you were especially outraged that no one on the boards shared your fervor in denouncing her.

The difference between you and I? I will leave our disagreement here. I have made my point and will move on. I will live by the philosophy of to each his/her own. And I really won't blast those that defend you or don't share my view. Can you say the same?

Ummmm...have you read the thread? Everyone here has, at least at some point, denounced my actions and made it clear that I'm considered an asshole (and not in the good sense of the word, like pmann is an asshole. Apparently there are degrees of assholeyness.).

So calling me out isn't new. It's just beating a dead horse. But welcome to the party anyway.

You will leave our disagreement here...well, so will I, of course. Why would I do anything else?

 

[bailadora]

Perhaps they DO find what I did loathsome and appalling. I don't think there is any mistaking that fact if you read even one page of this thread.

But they might not find ME loathsome and appalling. Some do. But there are some here who don't.

Meh. It takes all kinds. Even serial killers have their groupies.

 

[Lord Pmann]

Ummmm...have you read the thread? Everyone here has, at least at some point, denounced my actions and made it clear that I'm considered an asshole (and not in the good sense of the word, like pmann is an asshole. Apparently there are degrees of assholeyness.).

This makes me proud. I kind of teared up when I saw this.

 

[ima6uldv8]

I vote Scarlett Johansson. I always suspected there was a bit of freak in her.

A Lit guy once compared my voice to hers

 

[Ellafun]

But I can still talk with them. I can still tease with them. Just because I think someone is doing a bad thing doesn't make that someone a bad person.

^^^^ this is my favorite quote from you, I think...cause, um, it's sorta ironic.

oh, and I like your AV. Nice apron.

 

[heavyhitter01]

Someone told me you have a small penis. Is that why you're so angry?

No. The anger is just me being a self-righteous, holier-than-thou, impossible-to-reason-with asshole.

 

[heavyhitter01]

^^^^ this is my favorite quote from you, I think...cause, um, it's sorta ironic.

oh, and I like your AV. Nice apron.

Thanks. You should see all the things I can do with the flour.

 

[ima6uldv8]

Call me. Call me now.

Ok. That is hot! What shall I call you?
★★★★★

Here's another idea. Just as everyone's definition of what gets them hot and turns them on is different, couldn't that be ssid the same of behavior? Say, for instance, you love strapon sex with guys but someone else finds it sickening here and says so. Couldn't the same be said about two Litsters who don't know each other and meet for a good fuck? They don't even have to be married. Just depends on how other Litsters feel about it. What if one of them were the target of an outing? It all depends on what your definiton of right and wrong, good and evil.

 

[Lord Pmann]

A Lit guy once compared my voice to hers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWNaR-rxAic&sns=em

 

[ima6uldv8]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWNaR-rxAic&sns=em

Love that song!

 

[ima6uldv8]

That is the most annoying song in the world, this Aussie blokes version of it is MUCH better...

These DJs sang it to what's her face on radio

http://youtu.be/qRVPyw_BorY

Too funny! Love the accent.

 

[heavyhitter01]

Clocking out. http://smiliesftw.com/x/gheywavey.gif

You will be missed!

 

[Lord Pmann]

That is the most annoying song in the world, this Aussie blokes version of it is MUCH better...

These DJs sang it to what's her face on radio

http://youtu.be/qRVPyw_BorY

Hahahaha. I love it.

 

[whynotjustsayit]

Aren't I doing what you asked me to do? Shouldn't I actively condemn your behavior. If I find your behavior to be morally outrageous, isn't that my duty. Hasn't that been your whole point? You found TL's behavior so morally repugnant that you felt you had the right and duty to 'out' her.

And you were especially outraged that no one on the boards shared your fervor in denouncing her.

The difference between you and I? I will leave our disagreement here. I have made my point and will move on. I will live by the philosophy of to each his/her own. And I really won't blast those that defend you or don't share my view. Can you say the same?

blulilacgrl, I totally get what you've been saying and according to what you're saying, if we think that what heavyhitter01 has done is repugnant and violations of trust, after trying to convince him of the wrong of his actions, we should then shun his company, certainly not joke around with him about this whole...ahem....affair. That is certainly one valid way to to look at it and maybe even the right thing to do.

My take on the whole thing is that even if I don't personally agree with what he's done to TL's life for revenge or "teaching her a lesson" or whatever, he's still doing it, he's already done it and none of us could sway him otherwise (but it wasn't for lack of trying.) He won't change, just as we won't change in our own opinions of the whole matter. Are we consorting with "the enemy" by socializing with HH ? Maybe so. But he's not a murderer or a pedophile or a drug dealer. So that means, in my book, he's still a man possilbly capable of being reasoned with instead of condemned, although initially I may have thought otherwise. To joke with too, yes. Because goddamn, I can't stand shit that goes on and on without any humour at all.

I also don't agree with his mission to prevent a Jezebel like her from messing with other men. They are one half of the equation, too, and always have the option to keep their dicks in their pants. There are plenty of women around other than her who have no problem seducing married men.

I think trying to get revenge is a really ugly, demoralizing, unflattering thing to do, no matter how justified one thinks they are. But can any of us say that they haven't felt the same about anyone else in their entire lives? Wished for revenge upon someone whom we felt desperately deserved it ? Most of us would or could not go after it because of possible consequences. HH has researched his options and gone after how to carefully execute revenge against TL. Is it disturbing, yes, that such a thing IS possible to achieve. That he could obtain revenge upon her and also apparently have little remorse for doing so. He already knows it makes him look like a cruel asshole to most of us. But it's not a bad wake-up call for all of us to be reminded of...we may not like it but our actions have consequences. And not ones we can always predict.

The difference here at Lit, as opposed to offline life, is we have the option to choose whom we associate with or not. But any one of us could work with, for, or be related to a guy like HH. We can't oust assholes easily from our offline lives, we have to deal with them the best way we can. Humour is a great tension breaker.

Secondly, anonymity is a relative, not absolute thing. People who wish to remain really anonymous on the internet had better do a more throrough job of it than ms_intrigue or TL apparently hadn't. If she was so easily tied to online accounts, and her immoral activities so easily tracked, in that sense, she is accountable for having information so readily tied to her. So that includes what she did with her Literotica account(s). In other words, she was stupid about it all. And that includes coming back here with a user account with similar profile pics to what she had before and one that spelled out her profession. If she really wanted to remain properly anonymous here so that HH could not find her, she did a pretty shitty job of it, in my opinion. Even I recognized her avs from before, and I wasn't looking for her.

Thirdly, I don't make a distinction between "real" life and "online" life. Whatever you say or do here at Lit IS part of your real life. You can't disown it as just being part of fantasies and it's not really you. I don't buy that for a moment. I know there are others who look at it like that. They excuse and justify whatever they do at Lit as "just something they do online." I think that's hogwash, personally.

Fourthly, with the exception of a hastily edited post where he outed her first name, HH has not put any specifics on this thread so that any of us could find out who TL really is, where she lives, what her full name is, etc. So she is in fact still relatively anonymous to most of us. His feelings about her are clear, who she really is remains a mystery.

Fifthly, as for what "real" information HH is telling those who have PM'd him (I am not one) about TL, that is something not any of us could prevent or stop. What HH is doing publicly on the boards is not all that unique, though. I've seen many a post here trying to out users who were fucking around with other Litsters' heads and hearts in one fashion or another...using, deceiving, cheating on people here. I'm sure that others have shared similar information privately PM to PM about those users too.

I agree with HH...that if you're doing nothing wrong, you've got nothing to hide. You then don't have to worry what is being said about you on the boards or privately in PM's. I don't think vigilantes like him spring up out of nowhere without cause.

Yes, it is disturbing that someone like HH would go to the lengths he has to blackmail TL into contrition, to get her to back off his friends, etc. He has allegedly outed her to people who had nothing directly to do with the situation (college friends, her boss, etc.) He may very well get her demoted at work or cost her her job. Pretty shitty stuff. But it still remains that if she hadn't been doing what she had been in the first place, then she wouldn't be in the mess she's in.

It doesn't mean what he's done is right. It does mean that yes, you just never know whom you're dealing with in this world and if you're up to no good, only the luck of the draw will allow you to keep doing so painlessly. Otherwise, you just might step into a pile of shit you won't be able to wash off.

 

[heavyhitter01]

whynotjustsayit, I read through all of that three times.

I'm just going to say that I think you wrapped up all the issues of the thread in one very well-written and thoughtful post. Very well done.

 

[blulilacgrl]

While I can see your point and eh... I may disagree with some of the technicalities of what you posted, but not really enough to get into an argument over. [laughs]

But I did want to clarify this point.

according to what you're saying, if we think that what heavyhitter01 has done is repugnant and violations of trust, after trying to convince him of the wrong of his actions, we should then shun his company, certainly not joke around with him about this whole...ahem....affair.

I did not say this. Okay to clarify I did say it but more in a tongue in cheek reference to the fact that over and over again he made the point that if we didn't condemn TL then we were approving of her or at the very least defending her actions. So my point was simply that shouldn't the same logic be used on him?

If we don't shun him or viciously denounce him, does that mean we are approving what he did? This is using his logic of course.

 

[heavyhitter01]

If we don't shun him or viciously denounce him, does that mean we are approving what he did? This is using his logic of course.

I have been shunned and viciously denounced. I have been condemned for my actions. Have you even read the thread?