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Cruel2BKind

Cruel2BKind

Not Quite Here
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Posts
2,996
Can't wait to see the new Pixar movie BRAVE. Without exception, every single pixar movie has the power to make me bawl. (UP broke the record at making me cry in the first eight minutes)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4EZULqhP2E&feature=relmfu

Also pretty sick of people comparing it to 'How to train your Dragon' which was typical Dreamworks shit. And 'the hunger games' (ooh! Katniss had a bow and arrow, this new chick has a bow and arrow! BRAVE must be ripping it off!)

Just a note, I love Dreamworks. Their older 2-D stuff was fucking amazing (Prince of Egypt, Spirit, Road to El Dorado) And I like some of their CGI stuff (Over the Hedge, Despicable Me, First two Shrek films) But a lot of their movies just seem pretty cheap and hacky compared to Pixar.
 
I look forward to seeing it; from that trailer, it is well-planned and executed in the cartoon style we all know & love.
If I have a moan, it's that Disney always seems to have a "feisty young female" in it, and I think it is a little too 'stressed'.
 
Cruel2BKind said:
Can't wait to see the new Pixar movie BRAVE. Without exception, every single pixar movie has the power to make me bawl. (UP broke the record at making me cry in the first eight minutes)
Click to expand...

You cried at Cars? ;) Cars 2 might be tear-inducing only because it was so poor compared to other Pixar offerings.

Looking forward to Brave myself. I love animated movies of all kinds (favorite: Nightmare Before Christmas), although I think prefer either stop-motion or 2-D. In fact, I found the anime movie Metropolis today at the dollar store (!!!). A 2-disc set for $1. I grabbed it before they decided it was a mistake.

(Now I wait to find out it's only playable on European Region players or whatever. Still. $1!)
 
Stella_Omega said:
What would you rather were stressed?
http://binarythis.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/what-disney-princesses-teach-girls-4730-1274898673-601.jpg
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Oh, for Christ's sake they're cartoon characters, get over your bitterness.

How many people would buy merchandise of Disney heroins with butch haircuts and barbed wire tats wearing tank tops with no bras?

It's typical fairy tale propaganda all the heroins were beautiful and for the most part the villains ugly, it's fantasy.

Just let people have fun will you?
 
lovecraft68 said:
Oh, for Christ's sake they're cartoon characters, get over your bitterness.

How many people would buy merchandise of Disney heroins with butch haircuts and barbed wire tats wearing tank tops with no bras?

It's typical fairy tale propaganda all the heroins were beautiful and for the most part the villains ugly, it's fantasy.

Just let people have fun will you?
Click to expand...

Fine, I liked all of them, but Ariel, Snow White, Cinderella, and Aurora were particularly grr-worthy. Cinderella and Aurora and Snow White were at least products of their time, but Ariel had no excuse. I really hate that movie. (Except for Ursula)

I kinda forgot about Cars and Cars2. I actually hated those. Those were the only pixar movies I disliked. I never even saw the second one.
 
lovecraft68 said:
Oh, for Christ's sake they're cartoon characters, get over your bitterness.

How many people would buy merchandise of Disney heroins with butch haircuts and barbed wire tats wearing tank tops with no bras?

It's typical fairy tale propaganda all the heroins were beautiful and for the most part the villains ugly, it's fantasy.

Just let people have fun will you?
Click to expand...


Yeah because it's SO FUCKING MUCH FUN to insult, demean and feel superior to women.

If that's what you consider to be "fun", then you are truly a sorry, pitiful excuse for a man.
 
The problem with these fairy tales is that the Disney versions we see are far removed from the originals and quite diluted. My daughter likes the princess stuff b/c it's shiny and sparkly and pink, but she is not familiar with the princesses themselves. Who knows? Later, she may hate it.

But they're constantly being updated, like the upcoming Snow White movie. I'm not saying they're updated well, necessarily, but obviously there's an audience for a more proactive, self-assertive heroine.

Cars may actually be my favorite Pixar movie (although I like them all), but Cars 2 was a big disappointment.
 
PennLady said:
The problem with these fairy tales is that the Disney versions we see are far removed from the originals and quite diluted. My daughter likes the princess stuff b/c it's shiny and sparkly and pink, but she is not familiar with the princesses themselves. Who knows? Later, she may hate it.

But they're constantly being updated, like the upcoming Snow White movie. I'm not saying they're updated well, necessarily, but obviously there's an audience for a more proactive, self-assertive heroine.

Cars may actually be my favorite Pixar movie (although I like them all), but Cars 2 was a big disappointment.
Click to expand...

I judge disney movies on their own merit. Mostly because those original fairy tales are so horribly dark. Disney HAS to rewrite them or they would traumatize so many children Everybody bitches about how Bambi scarred them for life, but NO just NO. If they had done the original version of 'fox and the hound' you'd have a lot of scarred toddlers on your hands.

Or what about the little mermaid, where she turns into sea foam (and has no soul) at the very end? Or Hunchback of Notre Dame where everybody dies and Quasimodo is so distraught at La Esmerelda's death that he starves to death on top of her tomb? Or the Jungle Book where Mowgli is dissatisfied by village life and calls all of his animal friends to VICIOUSLY MURDER EVERYBODY?

And I'm not even getting into Hercules. :D
 
Cruel2BKind said:
I judge disney movies on their own merit. Mostly because those original fairy tales are so horribly dark. Disney HAS to rewrite them or they would traumatize so many children Everybody bitches about how Bambi scarred them for life, but NO just NO. If they had done the original version of 'fox and the hound' you'd have a lot of scarred toddlers on your hands.

Or what about the little mermaid, where she turns into sea foam (and has no soul) at the very end? Or Hunchback of Notre Dame where everybody dies and Quasimodo is so distraught at La Esmerelda's death that he starves to death on top of her tomb? Or the Jungle Book where Mowgli is dissatisfied by village life and calls all of his animal friends to VICIOUSLY MURDER EVERYBODY?

And I'm not even getting into Hercules. :D
Click to expand...

Well, exactly. I love the early Disney movies for the animation, which is beautifully done (my favorite is actually Robin Hood). The story is really secondary, to me.

I recently read that fairy tales started out as basically campfire type, cautionary tales for adults. (Sorry, can't find the article.) And I have read the originals of some of them -- definitely not for the faint of heart or those that want a happy ending.

Ultimately, I'd say if you don't want your kids to see them, well, then, don't show them the movies. Plenty of other stuff out there.
 
PennLady said:
Ultimately, I'd say if you don't want your kids to see them, well, then, don't show them the movies. Plenty of other stuff out there.
Click to expand...

Fox and the Hound was my sister's favorite movie. I loved the look on her face when I told her how the story REALLY went.

*ahem*

After the childhood (puphood?) Friendship, Tod inadvertently causes the death of one of Master's other dogs, Chief (who was younger then Copper in the book) The Master goes into a rage and trains Copper to hunt Tod exclusively. Tod's first vixen has her kits gassed by Master and is killed herself in a leg trap. Tod's second vixen is killed by Copper, and the kits gassed. Every winter, Master and Copper hunt Tod unsuccessfully, because Tod keeps learning tricks from all of the hunting dogs.

After rabies spreads in the fox population, the townspeople ask Master to hunt foxes professionally. The poison he uses kills many foxes, but also domestic animals and a human child.

Master plans a great fox hunt where people line up and tramp through the forest to flush all of the foxes out, and Tod is one of the only ones that escape. Copper chases him the next day until Tod drops dead of exhaustion and Copper limps back, nearly dead.

Master decides to go to a retirement home, and the end of the book is where he goes behind the shed with Copper and a shotgun.

*fin*

I loved the look on her face after that. Does that make me a sadist? :D
 
Cruel2BKind said:
I loved the look on her face after that. Does that make me a sadist? :D
Click to expand...

I am totally unfamiliar with any versions of that particular story.

As for the question -- I suppose that depends on whether she asked you to explain it, how old she was, and how she took it.
 
Cruel2BKind said:
Can't wait to see the new Pixar movie BRAVE. Without exception, every single pixar movie has the power to make me bawl. (UP broke the record at making me cry in the first eight minutes)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4EZULqhP2E&feature=relmfu

Also pretty sick of people comparing it to 'How to train your Dragon' which was typical Dreamworks shit. And 'the hunger games' (ooh! Katniss had a bow and arrow, this new chick has a bow and arrow! BRAVE must be ripping it off!)

Just a note, I love Dreamworks. Their older 2-D stuff was fucking amazing (Prince of Egypt, Spirit, Road to El Dorado) And I like some of their CGI stuff (Over the Hedge, Despicable Me, First two Shrek films) But a lot of their movies just seem pretty cheap and hacky compared to Pixar.
Click to expand...

What's wrong with How To Train Your Dragon? I thought it was one of their better movies.

__

And I cried in the first minute of Up because I knew what had to happen to her just from seeing the previews, so the moment I saw her, I cried (right there on the plane three rows away from the rest of my family, surrounded by attractive lesbians).
 
TheeGoatPig said:
What's wrong with How To Train Your Dragon? I thought it was one of their better movies.
Click to expand...

I enjoyed that one, too. There are a number of non-Pixar animated movies that are really good. Rango, for one -- and it did win the Best Animated Feature Oscar. :) I wanted to see Puss in Boots but never had the chance. Also enjoyed Kung Fu Panda and the sequel.

TheeGoatPig said:
And I cried in the first minute of Up because I knew what had to happen to her just from seeing the previews, so the moment I saw her, I cried (right there on the plane three rows away from the rest of my family, surrounded by attractive lesbians).
Click to expand...

Aw.
 
It must be a real bitch, being you

Safe_Bet said:
Yeah because it's SO FUCKING MUCH FUN to insult, demean and feel superior to women.

If that's what you consider to be "fun", then you are truly a sorry, pitiful excuse for a man.
Click to expand...

Have you ever met a man who wasn't lacking in some way? I guess when you're perfect, like yourself, it is hard putting up with lesser folks.

Just so you know, we have a hard time with you too.

Surely there is a place where bitter old cunts like you can go and find happiness. I hope you find it and leave right away. We will miss you here but we'll get through somehow.
 
lovecraft68 said:
Oh, for Christ's sake they're cartoon characters, get over your bitterness.
Click to expand...
Oh, for Christ's sake, they're propaganda! Get over your bitterness at those who point this out. I mean, come on, Lovecraft, you can't have it both ways. Time and again you criticize rapes stories here--why? They're stories about fictional characters. Not even cartoons, not even aimed at children. Just words on a page. Why not let people have their fun? :rolleyes: Obviously, you think stories have influence. You also think they represent a mindset and we should be critical of such mindsets. So why can you think this of such stories, but we're not suppose to think such, or comment on such when it comes to Disney cartoons?

Understand, I love Disney cartoons and I'm fine with little girls enjoying playing princess and wearing the pretty gowns. Little girls like to do that and they should be allowed to do that. But that doesn't mean I need to approve of the fact that, in most of these stories, the prince gets to kill the monster rather than the presumed heroine, or that the goal of the heroine is to get married rather than, as in boy movies, save the world or go on an adventure.

And you, for Christ's sake, should get over the fact that people have as much right to comment on such, and criticize such, as you do about stories that bug you. You should get over it because as a writer, you of all people should know how deeply even adults get into fictional characters, seeing them as real, taking them on as role models. I can't tell you how many men I know who say, "Luke Skywalker/Hans Solo was my role model as a kid and still is..." or "Superman/Batman was my role model as a kid and still is..."

A fictional character, a cartoon character may just be fun. But they can be a lot more. And they can especially be a lot more if the same "meme" keeps appearing princess after princess. Meaning that there are no real choices when it comes to role models for girls; every princess' job is to marry the prince and all that differs is what color gown they get to wear. You don't get to dismiss this with "let people have their fun," as if we women folk were being all hysterical over nothing. Because if cartoons are "just a cartoons" and if we're suppose to see them always as just "fun" then why did we get rid of racist depictions of blacks in cartoons--the pickanannies and those in blackface? We got rid of those because they were wrong. Because you don't let people have their "fun" at someone else's expense, and because not all cartoons are just cartoons. They can and do represent a mindset--just like those rape fantasy stories--and it's a good thing to examine, explore and, yes, criticize them. Especially if this mindset is being shown to young children who may carry that sort of "fun" with them into adulthood.
 
I've seen every one of the aforementioned 'cartoons' (I prefer 'Animated Features', but I digress) plus dozens more and enjoyed them all thoroughly. Comparing Pixar with Dreamworks fr' instance is comparing apples and oranges or rather comparing Jack Kirby's style to John Romita, Russ Heath or Steve Ditko's. They're in the same gente, but that's about it.

In re: 'Images' in animated features, never forget they're escapist fantasies, not indoctrination films to encourage feminist sensibilities or political correctness. They're fun and that's enough. All this 'body image', one's place in society and male oppression crap belongs somewhere else, not in animated features. They're meant to entertain.

Comic books and 'graphic novels' have already climbed on the PC bandwagon with minority, gay and 'strong women' characters which hasn't detracted from the story lines one iota, but a lot of them are aimed at teens and adults. I've seen children as young as 5 in animated feature audiences, let them have fun, not be indoctrinated in today's version of what's right and wrong about society. ;)
 
mikey2much said:
Have you ever met a man who wasn't lacking in some way? I guess when you're perfect, like yourself, it is hard putting up with lesser folks.

Just so you know, we have a hard time with you too.

Surely there is a place where bitter old cunts like you can go and find happiness. I hope you find it and leave right away. We will miss you here but we'll get through somehow.
Click to expand...

3113 said:
Oh, for Christ's sake, they're propaganda! Get over your bitterness at those who point this out. I mean, come on, Lovecraft, you can't have it both ways. Time and again you criticize rapes stories here--why? They're stories about fictional characters. Not even cartoons, not even aimed at children. Just words on a page. Why not let people have their fun? :rolleyes: Obviously, you think stories have influence. You also think they represent a mindset and we should be critical of such mindsets. So why can you think this of such stories, but we're not suppose to think such, or comment on such when it comes to Disney cartoons?

Understand, I love Disney cartoons and I'm fine with little girls enjoying playing princess and wearing the pretty gowns. Little girls like to do that and they should be allowed to do that. But that doesn't mean I need to approve of the fact that, in most of these stories, the prince gets to kill the monster rather than the presumed heroine, or that the goal of the heroine is to get married rather than, as in boy movies, save the world or go on an adventure.

And you, for Christ's sake, should get over the fact that people have as much right to comment on such, and criticize such, as you do about stories that bug you. You should get over it because as a writer, you of all people should know how deeply even adults get into fictional characters, seeing them as real, taking them on as role models. I can't tell you how many men I know who say, "Luke Skywalker/Hans Solo was my role model as a kid and still is..." or "Superman/Batman was my role model as a kid and still is..."

A fictional character, a cartoon character may just be fun. But they can be a lot more. And they can especially be a lot more if the same "meme" keeps appearing princess after princess. Meaning that there are no real choices when it comes to role models for girls; every princess' job is to marry the prince and all that differs is what color gown they get to wear. You don't get to dismiss this with "let people have their fun," as if we women folk were being all hysterical over nothing. Because if cartoons are "just a cartoons" and if we're suppose to see them always as just "fun" then why did we get rid of racist depictions of blacks in cartoons--the pickanannies and those in blackface? We got rid of those because they were wrong. Because you don't let people have their "fun" at someone else's expense, and because not all cartoons are just cartoons. They can and do represent a mindset--just like those rape fantasy stories--and it's a good thing to examine, explore and, yes, criticize them. Especially if this mindset is being shown to young children who may carry that sort of "fun" with them into adulthood.
Click to expand...


I truly enjoyed the juxtaposition of these two posts following one another. :)

One is a well thought out rebuttal by an intelligent woman who makes an excellent point. The other is the ramblings of a ignorant man who thinks its just fine to furnish crack to an addict so that he can have demeaning sex with her.

Beautiful contract that.


@ 3113: I know that we don't always agree, but that was wonderfully written. I'm bookmarking that comment for rereading over and over again. ;)
 
I guess I'm a little more inclined to shout 'Propaganda' towards disney films because even as a kid I didn't like 'the little mermaid'. That was the first disney movie that I didn't really enjoy. I never really liked a lot of the 'princess' stories, and I always got angry that the merchandise never showed Princess Kida or Nala or Pocahontas, but would show Mulan, who wasn't even a princess!

My favorite disney movies were The Hunchback of Notre Dame, Aladdin, Lilo and Stitch, and Atlantis. Aladdin is the only one of those that even has a (brand name) princess in it.

It took my aunt years to realize that princesses weren't my thing. I think I still have a fluffy pink dress from when I was six somewhere...
 
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