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Killing babies no different from abortion, experts say

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blunt_trauma

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Parents should be allowed to have their newborn babies killed because they are “morally irrelevant” and ending their lives is no different to abortion, a group of medical ethicists linked to Oxford University has argued.

The article, published in the Journal of Medical Ethics, says newborn babies are not “actual persons” and do not have a “moral right to life”. The academics also argue that parents should be able to have their baby killed if it turns out to be disabled when it is born.

The journal’s editor, Prof Julian Savulescu, director of the Oxford Uehiro Centre for Practical Ethics, said the article's authors had received death threats since publishing the article. He said those who made abusive and threatening posts about the study were “fanatics opposed to the very values of a liberal society”.

The article, entitled “After-birth abortion: Why should the baby live?”, was written by two of Prof Savulescu’s former associates, Alberto Giubilini and Francesca Minerva.

They argued: “The moral status of an infant is equivalent to that of a fetus in the sense that both lack those properties that justify the attribution of a right to life to an individual.”

Rather than being “actual persons”, newborns were “potential persons”. They explained: “Both a fetus and a newborn certainly are human beings and potential persons, but neither is a ‘person’ in the sense of ‘subject of a moral right to life’.

“We take ‘person’ to mean an individual who is capable of attributing to her own existence some (at least) basic value such that being deprived of this existence represents a loss to her.”

As such they argued it was “not possible to damage a newborn by preventing her from developing the potentiality to become a person in the morally relevant sense”.

The authors therefore concluded that “what we call ‘after-birth abortion’ (killing a newborn) should be permissible in all the cases where abortion is, including cases where the newborn is not disabled”.

They also argued that parents should be able to have the baby killed if it turned out to be disabled without their knowing before birth, for example citing that “only the 64 per cent of Down’s syndrome cases” in Europe are diagnosed by prenatal testing.

Once such children were born there was “no choice for the parents but to keep the child”, they wrote.

“To bring up such children might be an unbearable burden on the family and on society as a whole, when the state economically provides for their care.”

However, they did not argue that some baby killings were more justifiable than others – their fundamental point was that, morally, there was no difference to abortion as already practised.

They preferred to use the phrase “after-birth abortion” rather than “infanticide” to “emphasise that the moral status of the individual killed is comparable with that of a fetus”.
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http://jme.bmj.com/content/early/2012/02/22/medethics-2011-100411.full.pdf+html

gosh...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...s-no-different-from-abortion-experts-say.html
 
Bet we could make a fortune if we ground them up and sold them to the British to eat.
 
blunt_trauma said:
i quite like that our crazy academics come out with stuff that people who live in the real world never would.
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Academics are a funny lot.

Great in small doses, but lacking... communication skills.

Kind of like our friends on the other end of the educational spectrum, the wingnuts.

I'd take the former over the latter any day though.
 
richard_daily said:
Academics are a funny lot.

Great in small doses, but lacking... communication skills.
Click to expand...
the ones i used to know... IQs of three billion and still couldn't tie their own laces. it's like they dedicated their entire mental capacity to academia, leaving nothing left over for things like common sense and social skills.
 
blunt_trauma said:
is the sign of a first world nation the silencing of people you do not agree with? in that case, give me for forth world!
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We've tried eugenics from time to time. Most folks don't like the result. We learn. We reexamine and readdress the actual issues - be they true 'disabilities' or trumped up prejudices. We remain somewhat pious, then... we get too smart by half and reopen this reckless avenue as to shortcut... nature. Once human life as a fundamental ethical unit is considered quantifiable by any factor other than itself, the slippery slope towards final solutions is not more than a step or two away.

I agree. I'm not frightened to be in the fourth world. Like with most issues, I am not threatened by the discussion. That there is a line of reasoning clothed in the words 'science' and 'ethics' that goes to the very core of human-ness - and that it somehow mathematically quantifies what should live and what should be terminated AFTER birth - absolutely should be discussed to its death.
 
Wear rubber gloves and eye protection.

You never know when a rogue pimple will strike back.
 
blunt_trauma said:
where do they/you/i stand on strangling teenagers?
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Like infants, teen're hard as hell to kill! Infants strangle easier. Teens kick and shit and then text a wildfire on you after! If you ease up in the end, before they turn blue, both teens and infants get the gist of what you're trying to impart. You can only use 'the strangle' a couple times...

I think the eggheads are probably.... ummm... unschooled in childcare - probably unschooled in birth itself - other than both as mathematical concepts.
 
blunt_trauma said:
the ones i used to know... IQs of three billion and still couldn't tie their own laces. it's like they dedicated their entire mental capacity to academia, leaving nothing left over for things like common sense and social skills.
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I used to fool around with a woman who was an academic like you're talking about... It was like she never had had sex before, but knew about it in theory.

She was very strange... but a lot of fun.
 
Can't say I'm opposed to this - then again I never had children.
What I am opposed to is the notion that all life is sacred at all costs and the bullshit that represents. If it was we would be out in the streets stopping killings everywhere. (including your home town and school)
Makes no sense to me.

People heap war and death and destruction on one another, killing 10's of thousands and losing thousands of their own, then turn around and spend countless resources to keep some comatose person or a poor Alzheimer fucker alive when there is no hope nor need for it.
Makes no sense to me.

Then, when millions of people somehere in the world can't feed themselves donations for food to feed the starving are handed over by war-mongering governments. All the while, these starving people with no work do one thing - the just keep fucking and giving birth to more hunger.
Makes no sense to me.
 
Arguing the ethics of infanticide is a lot more comfortable sitting in the study on a leather chair with a snifter of brandy than holding a baby in your arms on the floor of a mud hut with a band of machete bearing Hutu's outside the flap.
 
Bert Notorius said:
Arguing the ethics of infanticide is a lot more comfortable sitting in the study on a leather chair with a snifter of brandy than holding a baby in your arms on the floor of a mud hut with a band of machete bearing Hutu's outside the flap.
Click to expand...

I can imagine that to be true.
 
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