Chaz Bono article in Rolling Stone magazine

[Stella_Omega]

This is just the bit about phalloplasty. If you have the chance to pick up the magazine, the article is worth reading. It's kind of odd, kind of trivial on the surface. But I think it really illuminates aspects of transman's journey that don't get talked about so often. Transitioning isn't about idealism, it's very much about personal gratification to one degree or another. And the things that transwomen are so glad to let go of-- the self-absorption, privilege etc-- are part of the baggage that every transman has to pick up and deal with.

http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/chaz-bono-im-saving-to-buy-a-penis-20120105

I gotta say-- in my past I have been very self absorbed. And my sister, whom I care for deeply, nagged me into facing that, and with her encouragement I opened up emotionally. It's one of the things that worries me about starting hormones, losing the wider interpersonal understanding that I've finally gained.

 

[bicuriouscd]

Removed

 

[CandiCame]

I don't remember ever seeing Chaz as a girl- I know I had to, because I used to watch Sonny & Cher when I was little, but, for me, that would be weird to think about. I liked that article- lots of stuff I wouldn't have thought about that got me thinking into some of the heteronormative stuff that's so ingraned- so under the radar that we don't even think about it...

Edit: In what world does Cher's kid have to "save up" for a dick, though? Or anything else? Is there some kind of family drama there that I'm unaware of?

You go, "Mom, I need $50,000!"

And she's like, "Check my purse on the kitchen counter."

Because that's walking around money to Cher.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Stella ,

It's one of the things that worries me about starting hormones, losing the wider interpersonal understanding that I've finally gained.

If you are happy in your life and your body why try to change it ?

Whatever you decide I wish you all the best !
T

I am not happy in my body. I never have been.

I gotta say that I don't expect perfect happiness as a result of any hormone changes I make. I know better than that. This is one of the issues that I am looking at.

 

[bicuriouscd]

Again I wish you all the best in whatever path you choose

 

[Stella_Omega]

Again I wish you all the best in whatever path you choose.

I have worked with a therpist who specializes in gender related issues and she has helped me to understand a lot more about myself as a person and I have to say I'm the happiest that I have ever been .

Then, you ought to be less quick to make assumptions about other people's gender issues, yeah?

I mean... why the fuck would I be talking about hormone therapy if I were happy in my body? Sorry bang on that point, but really-- you can just assume that someone who says anything about something so drastic has got to be hurting and conflicted. Don't be an ass.

 

[bicuriouscd]

Removed

 

[Stella_Omega]

I didn't think I was being an ass , you are the one who is flipping out !!

I know you don't think you are being an ass. But in fact, that was hurtful, useless advice-- even though you meant well.

It's a perfect example of what I worry about in my original post! On testosterone, I too might be offering stupid hurtful advice and not knowing what I had said wrong -- and accusing women of flipping out when they try to explain it to me.



And trying to pretend I had never said anything, instead of simply saying "I'm sorry, I should have known better."

 

[infinity706]

I guess you're kind of concerned about ending up like me, then? I get accused of giving stupid, hurtful advice, all the time.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I guess you're kind of concerned about ending up like me, then? I get accused of giving stupid, hurtful advice, all the time.

Yes... You are a good example.

I totally understand the impulse to FIX WHAT'S WRONG RIGHT NOW and if it cant be fixed, to pretend it doesn't exist. It's taken some very hard work to learn other ways of reacting and I know that these less intrusive reactions make my loved ones more comfortable and happier around me. Thing is, by doing so-- it isn't just a technique that I've learned but a reprogramming so that I , too expect the same sort of respect.

Thing is, when someone tells you that you've just said something unnecessary and wrong-- do you believe them, even if you don't understand what or why? How do you react? Is this something men can learn to control?

 

[infinity706]

Yeah, I have no problem avoiding problems with people I know, that I'm talking to one on one. I only get accused of giving out stupid, hurtful advice on public internet forums. I'm more than willing to get a bunch of shit from forum regulars (or people in person) if it might help the person I'm trying to advise. Of course, the main thing with that is people that feel the need to publically attack anything they percieve as unpopular, even if they personally agree with you.

It's kind of like my one female friend that publically bashes anal play as disgusting and painful, but when we're alone, the only rule is anything that's been up her ass needs a fresh condom before it goes in her cunt/mouth.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Do you feel that bicuriouscd's advice was hurtful and stupid? Or did I over react?

(I know that bicuriouscd is NOT a hurtful or stupid person, by the way, based on many other posts they've made-- I'm only talking about this particular set of posts in this particular thread)

 

[infinity706]

I didn't personally see anything wrong with it. Of course, I'm, apparently, a lot less easily offended than the average person, so I'm not much of a measuring stick. It's about like asking me if I'd fuck person X or if some food will be popular. (Most people say I'd fuck anything that held still long enough and eat shit if you covered it in chocolate.)

There is one big thing I definately see in the GLBT section, though. It seems really hostile toward straight people. Some of it might be justified, but it does seem like a lot of people here tend to rip someone a new asshole just for not having their finger on the pulse of the gay community. Sure, people can do what they want, but it seems to me like being a little more welcoming to curious straight people might give them a chance to see that GLBT people are just like everyone else, except the fucking the same sex thing. Lots of people out there haven't even knowingly met someone that isn't straight and first impressions are kind of important. Sure, you can't fix the hardcore bigots or anyone that's a total dumbass, but some people can actually be won over just by having that one gay friend.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Thanks for your input, infinity. Want a chocolate?

You do realise, of course, that you are implying that hostile straight folk are our fault for not being nicer to them?

The fact is that gay folk are NOT the same as straight folk. It might stem from the same sex interest, but because of our society, that simple difference brings on so incredibly many other differences. And it isn't something that gayfolk have much control over. The best we can do is learn to live with it-- allllll of it.

We have so very few safe spaces, and this is one of them. This forum is one place where we can correct well-meaning mis-assumptions, and fight back safely against trollery. You can't expect everyone to be well-spoken, though. Any more than we can expect every straight person to know how to phrase their thoughts.

GLBT does not make people into saints.

 

[infinity706]

I'm not saying be nice to trolls. I mean things like that butch vs femme thread. I don't think it was meant to insult anyone. I don't see the harm in thinking lesbians are hot as long the guys have the good sense on to hit on a woman they know is a lesbian. Correcting people isn't a bad thing. I just think it could be done in a less condescending way, sometimes. Straight bashing isn't any more productive than gay bashing. Besides, if GLBT people are only 10% of the population like the official numbers, that means there must be a lot more people that aren't total homophobes.

 

[Stella_Omega]

It's a matter of territory.

If GLBT are only 10% of the population, there's a helluvalot of places for straights to go and talk-- even about lesbians if they want.

Straight bashing is far less damaging to straights than gay bashing is to gays, because straights are systemically less vulnerable.

 

[Trapper_Jock_Mcintyre]

I have to wonder if the publicity circus surrounding Chaz has done him more harm than good. Things like Dancing with the Stars hardly appeal to an overly empathetic audience, and this article with its fluff if not offensive headline seem to make him look like a bit of a clown -- which he is not IMHO.

My point I guess is that because of the circus and the way it promotes him, the str8 population will always see him as 'Chaz Bono -- who used to be a girl' or 'Chaz Bono -- Cher's daughter that had a sex change' instead of the man that he is.

Trap

 

[Stella_Omega]

Kinda yes and no, Trap. I've ben going back and forth about the article. But for one thing, it did address some things that these articles don't usually talk about-- "too trivial."

And yes, Chaz IS Cher's child who's had a sex change. He can't do anything about that. He will never not be an entertainer.