Doms can you explain what you get out of it?

[Artina Heartflash]

Wait... WHY does he need to "do more soul searching as to why pain is so important for sex"? Why can't it just be something as simple as pain being a part of sex [for him]?

If one of The Men (my 2 lovers) wants to fuck me, it better damn well hurt [in order for me/him/us to fully enjoy it] and we all know it. I was laying in bed with one of them the other day and he commented that he never expected (at his age; he's 60) to find a "soulmate"- someone who needs to absorb his aggression/authority as much as he needs to express it. There isn't any dark history, no background of physical abuse, no mysoginy... No need to "soul search". Just intimacy, endorphins, vulnerability and friendship.

Thank you. Three of the four reasons make sense to me. the intimacy I crave goes deeper, into knowing the psyche. If one goes deeper into his own head, it often improves the experience. Also I suggested it because it sounds like the woman may NOT enjoy what he is doing. Rape ---the real violent kind--- is destructive. That's why it's deemed a crime.

 

[Artina Heartflash]

The bolded bit up there? S/M is not limited to "damaging pain"; in fact, I know few (if any) practitioners of S/M who are into "damage".

"Impact, mental and physical", however, is often what S/M is all about.

Thank you again, dear. I was referring to S/M as that described by the aforementioned man who admits to being sadist. Didn't mean to sound like I was generalizing.

 

[CutieMouse]

Thank you. Three of the four reasons make sense to me. the intimacy I crave goes deeper, into knowing the psyche. If one goes deeper into his own head, it often improves the experience. Also I suggested it because it sounds like the woman may NOT enjoy what he is doing. Rape ---the real violent kind--- is destructive. That's why it's deemed a crime.

Interesting... I read the exact same passage and didn't see anything suggesting a sex life based on rape. Yes the poster made a big show of how he'll take what he wants, regardless, blahblahblah - but one cannot understand an entire dynamic from a few paragraphs.

You read it and thought "omg she's not consenting/enjoying herself/that sadistic bastard/what if it's ABUSIVE instead of D/s!?!?

I read the passage and went "standard operating proceedure, bragging, standard operating proceedure, meh, standard operating proceedure... not exactly my cup of tea, but it sounds like they have a healthy/fulfilling sex life."

 

[Artina Heartflash]

Interesting... I read the exact same passage and didn't see anything suggesting a sex life based on rape. Yes the poster made a big show of how he'll take what he wants, regardless, blahblahblah - but one cannot understand an entire dynamic from a few paragraphs.

You read it and thought "omg she's not consenting/enjoying herself/that sadistic bastard/what if it's ABUSIVE instead of D/s!?!?

I read the passage and went "standard operating proceedure, bragging, standard operating proceedure, meh, standard operating proceedure... not exactly my cup of tea, but it sounds like they have a healthy/fulfilling sex life."

okay, i went back and reread his original statement. I guess what triggered my fear of it being nonconsentual was these lines:
She puts up a hell of a fight, screams, cries, begs, and if it's bothersome I put an end to it but usually I want to hear her.

But if I want to maximize my pleasure she needs to be hurting. So I fuck her, hard, and I slap her across the face and breasts, and then I turn her over and fuck her from behind while abusing her clit with either my hand or a vibrator.


To each his own. I am just concerned when I hear clashes like this. Have been affected by domestic violence in past. So I jump now, when I hear any kind of 'screams".

 

[Artina Heartflash]

and so out of the pool I flow,
eyes shadowed, dreadlocks in pink bows,
rubbing my own elbows as I go
dancing with Boy George, singing low:

Do you really want to hurt me
Do you really want to make me cry...?"

 

[Tampafel]

I work as a graphic artist and the joy I get out of my work is a lot like the pleasure I receive as a Dom. To control the situation, to use pain/discipline to shape your submissive. By taking the control it seems to break the artificial barriers a sub has between who she currently is and who she desires to be. To know when you can inflict more discipline with silence then a branding iron or flogger, that is when I feel like an artist.

Good god, that sounds pretentious as hell.

 

[LucyH]

What other people said, plus I get the same endorphin rush from being sadistic as I would if that stuff were being done to me.

 

[Artina Heartflash]

A more simple pleasure of being a Domme:

watching the gluts flex as he struggles, face down, in his binds
because I have dumped a huge scoop of ice cream in his crack.

And the more he squirms, the more he is rewarded by my equally squirming tongue lash

Hot damn, I love to tease.

 

[the captians wench]

The bolded bit up there? S/M is not limited to "damaging pain"; in fact, I know few (if any) practitioners of S/M who are into "damage".

"Impact, mental and physical", however, is often what S/M is all about.

I actually had this conversation with a dominatrix Thrusday night. She was annoyed because the guys that kept coming up to play were all taunting her when they were being hit. "oh is that all you got? hit me harder" kind of stuff. Of course these guys also picked the suade flogger. (boy did I draw a crowd with the violent wand! *giggles*)

Anyway, we talked a bit about the disrespectful aspect of the taunting, but what bothered her more than that even was the fact that they seemed to think BDSM was all about going hard 100% of the time. It made me stop and think a bit as well.

 

[Stella_Omega]

For some people it is exactly that-- it's about going hard, pitting yourself against the pain, proving yourself. In which case, that person needs to find the kind of top who wants to play like that.

But for a lot of first-timers, it's a sudden discovery. They have no idea of what they can take. And for most of us, that first time is one hundred percent endorphins, and NOTHING hurts. And dudes often as not react to that discovery like... well, a lot like assholes, sorry guys. Your Dominatrix friend can develop some stock answers to those taunts, like pointing out that only newbies taunt like that... Like pointing out they picked the light flogger and if they think she's going to throw her elbow out on some dude he's crazy...



Mistress L, who plays with men, has given me some really good advice recently. She was talking about one man who is an ex-marine. And he wanted to be punished. He would not, ever call his safeword. And she relies on her subs to monitor themselves.
So, she asked him to rate the pain on a scale from one to ten. When he gets to about seven-- she hits him twice as hard, and if he tells her that, too is a seven she knows he isn't tracking any longer and she would take it on herself to keep her blows to his 'seven' limit.

The worst problem she says, was that he wouldn't admit when he was having trouble in bondage. He put himself onto crutches out of stubbornness.

 

[Stella_Omega]

A more simple pleasure of being a Domme:

watching the gluts flex as he struggles, face down, in his binds
because I have dumped a huge scoop of ice cream in his crack.

And the more he squirms, the more he is rewarded by my equally squirming tongue lash

Hot damn, I love to tease.

That is absolutely fantastic!

 

[the captians wench]

For some people it is exactly that-- it's about going hard, pitting yourself against the pain, proving yourself. In which case, that person needs to find the kind of top who wants to play like that.

But for a lot of first-timers, it's a sudden discovery. They have no idea of what they can take. And for most of us, that first time is one hundred percent endorphins, and NOTHING hurts. And dudes often as not react to that discovery like... well, a lot like assholes, sorry guys. Your Dominatrix friend can develop some stock answers to those taunts, like pointing out that only newbies taunt like that... Like pointing out they picked the light flogger and if they think she's going to throw her elbow out on some dude he's crazy...



Mistress L, who plays with men, has given me some really good advice recently. She was talking about one man who is an ex-marine. And he wanted to be punished. He would not, ever call his safeword. And she relies on her subs to monitor themselves.
So, she asked him to rate the pain on a scale from one to ten. When he gets to about seven-- she hits him twice as hard, and if he tells her that, too is a seven she knows he isn't tracking any longer and she would take it on herself to keep her blows to his 'seven' limit.

The worst problem she says, was that he wouldn't admit when he was having trouble in bondage. He put himself onto crutches out of stubbornness.

In some instances I do believe you are correct. I recall my first pain experience and the fit of giggles that freaked out both the man hitting me and the female watching.

I do not believe this was the case last night, however, and I believe her conversation with me was as much to taunt back, as it was discussion. When I mentioned that his "harder, harder, harder" response to every strike her assistant threw seemed disrespectful and unappreciative to me, she said "you're right." and then turned to the guy and said "the appropriate reply is 'thank you'" after which that was the only thing he said. Which may actually prove your point, and that very well could have been the case.

It was a publicized event, at a night club not a dungeon, so it brought in a different crowd. There were a few who were there because they were curious and did not know how else to explore. Including the guy who took it upon himself to grab my leash after 3 minutes of lack luster conversation. I probably should have explained to him his offence, but it made me feel more vulnerable than I was prepared for that night, and I simply walked away, so he in all likely hood does not know what he did wrong, or why it was wrong. And perhaps for some one else it wouldn't be so offencive.

Anyway, you have, once again, given me something to ponder, as that lady did that night. Perhaps it's my own experience with male bottoms that clouds my vision.

ETA: But the point was, as you always point out Stella, that it doesn't have to be one certain way.

 

[Wizard]

Wait... WHY does he need to "do more soul searching as to why pain is so important for sex"? Why can't it just be something as simple as pain being a part of sex [for him]?

If one of The Men (my 2 lovers) wants to fuck me, it better damn well hurt [in order for me/him/us to fully enjoy it] and we all know it. I was laying in bed with one of them the other day and he commented that he never expected (at his age; he's 60) to find a "soulmate"- someone who needs to absorb his aggression/authority as much as he needs to express it. There isn't any dark history, no background of physical abuse, no mysoginy... No need to "soul search". Just intimacy, endorphins, vulnerability and friendship.

Just who he is...

 

[Stella_Omega]

No leashes at those nightclub events, no more, okay? Too easy to be grabbed by know-nothing strangers!

 

[CutieMouse]

Just who he is...

Exactly.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Exactly.

exactly.

 

[His_pet_slut]

For some people it is exactly that-- it's about going hard, pitting yourself against the pain, proving yourself. In which case, that person needs to find the kind of top who wants to play like that.

But for a lot of first-timers, it's a sudden discovery. They have no idea of what they can take. And for most of us, that first time is one hundred percent endorphins, and NOTHING hurts. And dudes often as not react to that discovery like... well, a lot like assholes, sorry guys. Your Dominatrix friend can develop some stock answers to those taunts, like pointing out that only newbies taunt like that... Like pointing out they picked the light flogger and if they think she's going to throw her elbow out on some dude he's crazy...



Mistress L, who plays with men, has given me some really good advice recently. She was talking about one man who is an ex-marine. And he wanted to be punished. He would not, ever call his safeword. And she relies on her subs to monitor themselves.
So, she asked him to rate the pain on a scale from one to ten. When he gets to about seven-- she hits him twice as hard, and if he tells her that, too is a seven she knows he isn't tracking any longer and she would take it on herself to keep her blows to his 'seven' limit.

The worst problem she says, was that he wouldn't admit when he was having trouble in bondage. He put himself onto crutches out of stubbornness.

For some submissives, it isn't merely a case of being too stubborn to admit trouble or using our safeword. It is that we are so innately submissive that it is or very nearly is impossible for us to do so. I fall into this category. It took a while for my Dom at the time and I to figure out what was going on, but we finally did. I have a wise and caring Master that makes sure he is acutely aware of the more subtle cues that he is up against a boundary that may not need to be crossed.

 

[Artina Heartflash]

I wish people would keep the fictional characters off the serious discussion threads. I'm not pointing any fingers here. Just venting about ANY discussion thread.

I'm no alt, folks. I've been here 9 years under the same name. Hugs to all the real folks posting.

 

[Artina Heartflash]

Mistress L, who plays with men, has given me some really good advice recently. She was talking about one man who is an ex-marine. And he wanted to be punished. He would not, ever call his safeword. And she relies on her subs to monitor themselves.
So, she asked him to rate the pain on a scale from one to ten. When he gets to about seven-- she hits him twice as hard, and if he tells her that, too is a seven she knows he isn't tracking any longer and she would take it on herself to keep her blows to his 'seven' limit.

The worst problem she says, was that he wouldn't admit when he was having trouble in bondage. He put himself onto crutches out of stubbornness.

This is of great intrigue to me. As I mentioned earlier, I long for intimate mental connections even more than the physical ones. If the marine were my partner, I would probably probe/encourage him to talk about WHY he wants to be punished, why he feels need to prove himself by enduring pain to point of ---what, ankle strain, bone breakage? I don't know what rank or what his job was as marine, but it would fascinate me even more to learn he'd been in battle and yet had this need to endure further testing.

Sadly, from my own personal experience with military fellows, it is rare if any will try to unroll such secrets. God bless them.

I had a personal war with cancer. Survived it.---duh. I am not writing this from beyond the grave---. But it gave me new mindset: In life, SO much pain that comes upon us is unasked for, from which we can learn... Why do folks set themselves up to learn the same in a 'created' situation/scene? Not trying to poke at anyone....just curious to reasons for the choice method of learning.

As for me, after the cancer I threw away the main flogger. Now all the floggers I have are just pieces of art. I'll teach and learn in some other strong, creative manner.

 

[the captians wench]

No leashes at those nightclub events, no more, okay? Too easy to be grabbed by know-nothing strangers!

Yeah, it was habit, but then I don't usually go alone. Lesson learned.

I had a personal war with cancer. Survived it.---duh. I am not writing this from beyond the grave---. But it gave me new mindset: In life, SO much pain that comes upon us is unasked for, from which we can learn... Why do folks set themselves up to learn the same in a 'created' situation/scene? Not trying to poke at anyone....just curious to reasons for the choice method of learning.

As for me, after the cancer I threw away the main flogger. Now all the floggers I have are just pieces of art. I'll teach and learn in some other strong, creative manner.

For me, there are two reasons why I crave pain.

1) I want the endorphin rush
2) I need a pain that I can understand, put words to, and work through

Some times it is purely a mater of wanting those happy chemicals running through my body. A natural high.

Other times I am so stressed, or hurt, by things that I have no control over, that I need something that I can wrap my head around. I need something simple that I can understand. Physical pain hurts, and the cause is obvious.

 

[kimuk]

For some submissives, it isn't merely a case of being too stubborn to admit trouble or using our safeword. It is that we are so innately submissive that it is or very nearly is impossible for us to do so. I fall into this category. It took a while for my Dom at the time and I to figure out what was going on, but we finally did. I have a wise and caring Master that makes sure he is acutely aware of the more subtle cues that he is up against a boundary that may not need to be crossed.

I have never got into a situation where I have felt the need to use my "safe word".

However I know with my man our exploration will be more extensive this time. Last time was very much testing the water. This time I'm taking the plung. I hope I dont feel the need to prove myself and "take it" for the sake of it. Because if I know anything about this man I know its not what he wants.

He wants me to use it when i reach my limit. He has made it clear that there will be no recupissions if I do use it. Just time to gather myself , gauge where we are and continue or cease our current activity depending on what we BOTH want.

 

[His_pet_slut]

I have never got into a situation where I have felt the need to use my "safe word".

However I know with my man our exploration will be more extensive this time. Last time was very much testing the water. This time I'm taking the plung. I hope I dont feel the need to prove myself and "take it" for the sake of it. Because if I know anything about this man I know its not what he wants.

He wants me to use it when i reach my limit. He has made it clear that there will be no recupissions if I do use it. Just time to gather myself , gauge where we are and continue or cease our current activity depending on what we BOTH want.

After an evening a few months ago when Master felt we needed to not go further, we spent our next few times together exploring in different directions. However, we have discussed that our next time will be revisiting this particular situation. The anticipation is quite yummy.

 

[subish2009]

okay, i went back and reread his original statement. I guess what triggered my fear of it being nonconsentual was these lines:
She puts up a hell of a fight, screams, cries, begs, and if it's bothersome I put an end to it but usually I want to hear her.

But if I want to maximize my pleasure she needs to be hurting. So I fuck her, hard, and I slap her across the face and breasts, and then I turn her over and fuck her from behind while abusing her clit with either my hand or a vibrator.


To each his own. I am just concerned when I hear clashes like this. Have been affected by domestic violence in past. So I jump now, when I hear any kind of 'screams".

If you're still feeling concerned about this individual, go back and read some of his older posts. He gets this kind of reaction every time he shows up on Lit after a few months off. He's VERY honest and open about his sadism and I think it takes some people by surprise. But they have a consensual non-consent relationship. He has PLENTY of other anecdotes that ought to assure you of her consent if you read them.

 

[the captians wench]

I have never got into a situation where I have felt the need to use my "safe word".

However I know with my man our exploration will be more extensive this time. Last time was very much testing the water. This time I'm taking the plung. I hope I dont feel the need to prove myself and "take it" for the sake of it. Because if I know anything about this man I know its not what he wants.

He wants me to use it when i reach my limit. He has made it clear that there will be no recupissions if I do use it. Just time to gather myself , gauge where we are and continue or cease our current activity depending on what we BOTH want.

This was a hard lesson for me to learn.

I tend to play with sadists. Not ones who want me to enjoy what I am taking, ones who want the pain, the tears, the hurt to go deeply, beyond anything I could enjoy. They want me to suffer.

The problem I had with a safeword, at first, was that I didn't want to disapoint them. I wanted to go on until he was completely satisfied. I wanted to last until he had exhausted himself, if that's what he wanted. I felt like if I didn't go as long as he had wanted to, then I would let him down.

It wasn't until some one explained to me, "if you allow me to damage my toy, and therefore prevent me from playing with her again, I will be very disapointed in you. Especially when it is so easy to say just a word."

He was one sadistic son of a bitch, and he knew just how to use my need to please to make me see how stupid I was being.

 

[Artina Heartflash]

If you're still feeling concerned about this individual, go back and read some of his older posts. He gets this kind of reaction every time he shows up on Lit after a few months off. He's VERY honest and open about his sadism and I think it takes some people by surprise. But they have a consensual non-consent relationship. He has PLENTY of other anecdotes that ought to assure you of her consent if you read them.

yes I did research his other posts shortly after the conversation with Mouse here. Got the answers I needed. Thanks.