Vargas, journalist, admits he's undocumented

[Pure]

Vargas, a Pullitzer winning journalist admitted he's illegal, in a long article, two weeks ago. Response is mixed; much of it leaning toward letting him stay, but also some dissent:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/270255/jose-antonio-vargas-daniel-foster

http://www.npr.org/2011/07/07/13765...ould-leave-the-u-s?sc=fb&cc=fp' rel='nofollow


Here's a small excerpt from the original story, his own longish account of his life and its deception:

Jose Antonio Vargas

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/26/m...undocumented-immigrant.html?_r=1&pagewanted=1

Over the past 14 years, I’ve graduated from high school and college and built a career as a journalist, interviewing some of the most famous people in the country. On the surface, I’ve created a good life. I’ve lived the American dream.

But I am still an undocumented immigrant. And that means living a different kind of reality. It means going about my day in fear of being found out. It means rarely trusting people, even those closest to me, with who I really am. It means keeping my family photos in a shoebox rather than displaying them on shelves in my home, so friends don’t ask about them. It means reluctantly, even painfully, doing things I know are wrong and unlawful. [...]


Last year I read about four students who walked from Miami to Washington to lobby for the Dream Act, [...]. At the risk of deportation — the Obama administration has deported almost 800,000 people in the last two years — they are speaking out. Their courage has inspired me. There are believed to be 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United States. We’re not always who you think we are. Some pick your strawberries or care for your children. Some are in high school or college. And some, it turns out, write news articles you might read. I grew up here. This is my home. Yet even though I think of myself as an American and consider America my country, my country doesn’t think of me as one of its own.
===

What consequences should he face.?

 

[Stella_Omega]

You and your polls.

You do realise, do you not, that my name next to my opinion will completely discredit it?

"oh it's only that commie pinko faggit Stella, of COURSE she'd say that."

Likewise, if Zeb answers "tear his nuts off and hang him," I'll just figure it's Zeb being his typical hateful self.

 

[TE999]

This person exemplifies the entire problem of illegal immigration and why a 'One size fits all' solution is not going to work; ie: Offer mass citizenship, regardless or mass deportation, regardless from the left and right respectively.

However, reviewing and acting upon each instance of illegal immigration on a case by case basis would be an administrative and a legal nightmare. Furthermore, as long as our borders are so porous the problem will only continue to be exacerbated beyond all form of control or resolution. It is nearly there now.

I see no timely solution to this problem, but it remains a slap in the face to all those immigrants who have entered the country legally and become American Citizens.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Hell, it's a slap in the face to those of us who were born here, had citizenship conferred upon us at birth, and still never made it to Pulitzer-prize status.

If you're going to think of it that way.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I am very ambivalent on this question. I certainly don't want millions of illegal aliens flocking over the border, taking jobs that would have been held by Americans, committing violent crimes the way some of them do, and living at taxpayer expense. At the same time, I can admire the individuals who come to the US and work hard to support their families in the home country.

This is especially so because my wife was one of the latter, who overstayed her tourist visa and went to work in a board and care home. She gained her citizenship by marrying one of the patients there and, some time later after he died, she and I were married. A former sister-in-law of hers and the SIL's husband are much the same, except they operate their own business. We tried to arrange for our oldest daughter to do the same kind of thing, but such jobs were not easy to find then, and the daughter returned to the Pilippines within her legally required time period. She might try again in the next year or so.

Of course in this regard, Vargas is a productive member of society, harming nobody and, as such, is much like the relatives I describe. If I say "Hang his ass" I am saying the same thing about my own wife

 

[TE999]

Hell, it's a slap in the face to those of us who were born here, had citizenship conferred upon us at birth, and still never made it to Pulitzer-prize status.

If you're going to think of it that way.

You're missing the point. His accomplishments have nothing to do with it. I am speaking to the fact he entered the country illegally and broke the law while others entered legally and became citizens. They're the ones who should be annoyed by illegal immigration be it by an illiterate peasant or a Nobel Prize winner. The law is the law.

 

[Pure]

to TE

i find myself, on occasion, agreeing with you. here, i think you're right that 'accomplishments' should not be a primary factor in assessing [his guilt and liability to] a penalty, except that they do show him to be honest [except to the gov't] and hard working --as would be a million others if they got in; if they were fortunate to have a relative with money to pay a 'coyote' to take them in.**

as an analogy, if you fake your way into a prestigious medical school with fake transcripts purporting that you were a biology major at Harvard, with straight A's *and then you do VERY well, and graduate*, i.e. you are successful, it does NOT mean your MD degree is deserved or legitimate-- and shouldn't be revoked.
---

question to TE: if accomplishments are NOT relevant, as you say, why do you respond, in the poll, 'pardon him'?

---
ADDED:
** IF the matter comes to trial and guilt is determined and there is a matter of *sentencing*, then of course his good behavior and accomplishments should be taken into consideration by a judge who's imposing a sentence.

 

[Stella_Omega]

If his accomplishments aren't relevant, then why are they such an important part of the top post?

 

[Pure]

stell: If his accomplishments aren't relevant, then why are they such an important part of the top post?

i'm merely reproducing a few key passages from the early portion of his long story of his life and of this decision. *he* may well think his accomplishments are relevant to degree of guilt and/or being allowed to stay.

my top/first post is not a legal brief, and isn't necessarily how I would argue for or against his staying, punishment, etc. in a legal context.

the point here is simple: if you break the law, there are consequences. that was one point urged against Polanski. AFTER a breach of law, being honest and doing well does NOT count against the crime, though a judge might consider your subsequent doing well, in mitigating the penalty.

in the present case, however, there are, technically, continuing offenses, e.g. on his income tax forms, each year, he checked "american citizen," and all tax forms specify penalties for false information.

 

[Stella_Omega]

in the present case, however, there are, technically, continuing offenses, e.g. on his income tax forms, each year, he checked "american citizen," and all tax forms specify penalties for false information.

Well, there you have it.

 

[Boxlicker101]

i find myself, on occasion, agreeing with you. here, i think you're right that 'accomplishments' should not be a primary factor in assessing [his guilt and liability to] a penalty, except that they do show him to be honest [except to the gov't] and hard working --as would be a million others if they got in; if they were fortunate to have a relative with money to pay a 'coyote' to take them in.**

as an analogy, if you fake your way into a prestigious medical school with fake transcripts purporting that you were a biology major at Harvard, with straight A's *and then you do VERY well, and graduate*, i.e. you are successful, it does NOT mean your MD degree is deserved or legitimate-- and shouldn't be revoked.
---

question to TE: if accomplishments are NOT relevant, as you say, why do you respond, in the poll, 'pardon him'?

---
ADDED:
** IF the matter comes to trial and guilt is determined and there is a matter of *sentencing*, then of course his good behavior and accomplishments should be taken into consideration by a judge who's imposing a sentence.

It's pretty certain he was not brought to the US by a coyote. I very much doubt that somebody sneaked him across the Pacific Ocean. Here is more detail on him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jose_Antonio_Vargas

 

[Pure]

to box. vargas' coyote

box It's pretty certain he was not brought to the US by a coyote. I very much doubt that somebody sneaked him across the Pacific Ocean.
------------

pure: well, box, you're 'pretty certain' about a lot of things... but they just ain't so. you might, as a last resort, read Vargas' detailed account, which i linked in the first post.

---

vargas: After my uncle came to America legally in 1991, Lolo [Grandfather]tried to get my mother here through a tourist visa, but she wasn’t able to obtain one. That’s when she decided to send me. My mother told me later that she figured she would follow me soon. She never did.

The “uncle” who brought me here turned out to be a coyote, not a relative, my grandfather later explained. Lolo scraped together enough money — I eventually learned it was $4,500, a huge sum for him — to pay him to smuggle me here under a fake name and fake passport.

 

[TE999]

question to TE: if accomplishments are NOT relevant, as you say, why do you respond, in the poll, 'pardon him'?.

If, for no other reason, because he decided to 'out' himself in a time when illegal immigration is such a hot button issue; although he no doubt figures that his accomplishments place him above serious criticism unlike the guy that mows your lawn.

 

[sr71plt]

As well as making someone useful out of himself in the States, did he consistently pay all level of taxes on what he was earning? If not, I'd kick him out. If he's been paying the full share of a citizen, I'd strike some deal with him that included punishment of some sort, let him go through naturalization proceedings, if he wants--or kick him out if he can't be bothered.

The issue of those circumventing the laws getting better or even equal treatment because "they are somebody" with those who followed the laws in becoming citizens resonates with me. That's the point at which I look hard at what they've contributed here. A nurse or welfare worker or fire fighter I'd look at favorably. A sports star or reporter? Not so much.

 

[Pure]

as to contribution to the US, i think there IS a difference between becoming a firefighter vs. becoming, say, a best-selling author or singer. vargas is somewhere in the middle region, since his efforts around AIDS and the Virginia Tech massacre are perhaps a kind of public service. that said, to be a reporter for the Washington Post is NOT exactly to subsist in penury.

there is also the question of deterrence: a 'free pass' to vargas sends a message, "cheat, but stay under the radar and work hard and everything will be fine."

so i propose, from the two considerations above: $250,000 in fines (i.e. literally or figuratively, loses his house), and 2 years' community service, e.g., as an orderly in a hospital. (and yes, all back taxes.)

 

[Pure]

to TE

pure // if accomplishments are NOT relevant, as you say, why do you respond, in the poll, 'pardon him'?. //

TE If, for no other reason, because he decided to 'out' himself in a time when illegal immigration is such a hot button issue;

excellent point, TE. coming forward counts for something. he was well ensconced and protected, after all; no one was pressing him for 'papers.' that's why i have voted that, with suitable adjustments and financial penalties, he NOT be deported.

 

[Boxlicker101]

box It's pretty certain he was not brought to the US by a coyote. I very much doubt that somebody sneaked him across the Pacific Ocean.
------------

pure: well, box, you're 'pretty certain' about a lot of things... but they just ain't so. you might, as a last resort, read Vargas' detailed account, which i linked in the first post.

vargas: After my uncle came to America legally in 1991, Lolo [Grandfather]tried to get my mother here through a tourist visa, but she wasn’t able to obtain one. That’s when she decided to send me. My mother told me later that she figured she would follow me soon. She never did.

The “uncle” who brought me here turned out to be a coyote, not a relative, my grandfather later explained. Lolo scraped together enough money — I eventually learned it was $4,500, a huge sum for him — to pay him to smuggle me here under a fake name and fake passport.

This is definitrely not a coyote, as the term is usually understood - a person who escorts illegal and undocumented aliens from Mexico and sneaks them across the border. Vargas entred the US openly, although with phony documents, and in the company of somebody who was passing himself off as a relative.

BTW, I like being called "Lolo," which seems more affectionate than the American equivalent.

 

[oggbashan]

There should be a way for illegal immigrants, whether to the US or to the UK, to change their status to legal without suffering severe penalties for admitting their illegal entry.

During the 1930s, Jews fleeing Nazi Germany were admitted to the UK if they were sponsored by a resident. Several Jewish communities arranged such sponsorship for refugee Jews who were not relations, including some who arrived without paperwork and were held at the port of entry.

For those foreign nationals who are in the UK legally there is the possibility of applying for UK citizenship. The same is true in the US, but in both countries the step from being illegal, e.g. on an expired student visa or a work permit that is no longer valid, to becoming a legal resident is extremely difficult. Perhaps sponsorship by existing citizens is the way forward? I don't know, but illegal immigrants are a problem that needs a solution - soon.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

You and your polls.

You do realise, do you not, that my name next to my opinion will completely discredit it?

"oh it's only that commie pinko faggit Stella, of COURSE she'd say that."

Likewise, if Zeb answers "tear his nuts off and hang him," I'll just figure it's Zeb being his typical hateful self.

I don't want anyone's nuts torn off or hung (hanged?). But...there always is a but...he is here illegally, he is working here illegally, both making him a criminal along with his employer. And as TE says, what he has done is a slap in the face to those who took the time to do it the right way, the legal way.

Yet I digress...I don't participate in Pure's polls.

 

[Pure]

to become legal

ogg:There should be a way for illegal immigrants, whether to the US or to the UK, to change their status to legal without suffering severe penalties for admitting their illegal entry.

i agree with the concept, here, ogg, with some provisos, e.g. that the person has behaved themselves and supported themselves.

i think there has to be some non trivial penalty, however, else it's a game: 'get in; last ten years in hiding; apply for permanent status/citizenship.'

i heard somewhere that the French would make you a citizen if you served your term in their Foreign Legion. so military or some other non-lucrative public service might be opened as a avenue.

it's a different matter for kids born to illegals, who lack status through no fault of their own, and pernaps, if allowed, complete college. they should be able to stayl.

 

[sr71plt]

i heard somewhere that the French would make you a citizen if you served your term in their Foreign Legion. so military or some other non-lucrative public service might be opened as a avenue.

It helps in getting U.S. citizenship too. I think if a percentage was listed of noncitizens serving in the U.S. armed services and working on getting their citizenship, your jaw would drop. (Mine too. The Pentagon doesn't seem anxious to share this number.)

 

[oggbashan]

It helps in getting U.S. citizenship too. I think if a percentage was listed of noncitizens serving in the U.S. armed services and working on getting their citizenship, your jaw would drop. (Mine too. The Pentagon doesn't seem anxious to share this number.)

Yesterday I attended the funeral of one of my wife's uncles. He served in WWII and Korea as an officer with a Gurkha regiment. We have only recently allowed retired Gurkha's to remain in the UK despite everything the Gurkhas have done for us over the years.

The British public like the Gurkas. Yet they are some of the most ferocious fighters in the world. Perhaps we prefer them as friends than as enemies?