It Isn't "Porn"

estragon

Literotica Guru
Joined
Nov 29, 2010
Posts
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Miss Lisa Jones, a very fine addition to Literotica, published a story entitled “The Garage,” that posted today, 4/11 (or 11/4, as they have it in the UK). I extensively quibbled it, as is my wont, because the characters, the plot and the local color (sorry, colour) were all very good. Miss Lisa Jones, having had a bad day, at first took my quibbles in bad part, and e-mailed me, among other things, that if I didn’t like her story I should write my own.

I did like her story very much, and said so in the Public Comments section. And I do write my own, not as good as Miss Lisa Jones and others, but I do. And I’ll take whatever praise and bombs as they come. The only time I’ll slam a commentator is when she or he hides behind “Anonymous”.

I’ve said again and again, in e-mails and on the AH and SF boards, I wouldn’t waste my time quibbling if a story wasn’t good and if the writer didn’t have talent. If a story is junk, I’m gone by the end of the first paragraph.

And that’s the point. I just now had an exchange of e-mails with Miss Lisa Jones, and after undoing a misunderstanding, I wrote the following, which sums up my view of Literotica, and indeed of our whole function as writers of erotica: “The only thing in your e-mail that hurt was your calling your work "porn"--it's too good to be just "porn". If we who write erotica denigrate our own work, we have no complaint when the Wowsers and the Bible-thumpers try to shut us down, claiming we're just trashmongers. We just gave them an own-goal.”

Fellow authors, your work is too good to be called “porn.” We shouldn’t be hanging our heads as if we were doing something wrong, because we aren’t. We should use every measure of skill we have, exert every effort, to write the best story we can, every time. And if someone has an orgasm from what one of us wrote, all the better. But our only aim should be to write something really good.

And I’ll go on quibbling. And go on writing. Regardless. Because I have to.
 
Miss Lisa Jones, a very fine addition to Literotica, published a story entitled “The Garage,” that posted today, 4/11 (or 11/4, as they have it in the UK). I extensively quibbled it, as is my wont, because the characters, the plot and the local color (sorry, colour) were all very good. Miss Lisa Jones, having had a bad day, at first took my quibbles in bad part, and e-mailed me, among other things, that if I didn’t like her story I should write my own.

I did like her story very much, and said so in the Public Comments section. And I do write my own, not as good as Miss Lisa Jones and others, but I do. And I’ll take whatever praise and bombs as they come. The only time I’ll slam a commentator is when she or he hides behind “Anonymous”.

I’ve said again and again, in e-mails and on the AH and SF boards, I wouldn’t waste my time quibbling if a story wasn’t good and if the writer didn’t have talent. If a story is junk, I’m gone by the end of the first paragraph.

And that’s the point. I just now had an exchange of e-mails with Miss Lisa Jones, and after undoing a misunderstanding, I wrote the following, which sums up my view of Literotica, and indeed of our whole function as writers of erotica: “The only thing in your e-mail that hurt was your calling your work "porn"--it's too good to be just "porn". If we who write erotica denigrate our own work, we have no complaint when the Wowsers and the Bible-thumpers try to shut us down, claiming we're just trashmongers. We just gave them an own-goal.”

Fellow authors, your work is too good to be called “porn.” We shouldn’t be hanging our heads as if we were doing something wrong, because we aren’t. We should use every measure of skill we have, exert every effort, to write the best story we can, every time. And if someone has an orgasm from what one of us wrote, all the better. But our only aim should be to write something really good.

And I’ll go on quibbling. And go on writing. Regardless. Because I have to.

I have to somewhat disagree with you. Most of what I write is porn, and unabashedly so. I think it's good porn, and so do many readers, but porn nonetheless. :D
 
I can only highly recommend the exchange from the "Inferno" episode of the Britcom "Coupling" to explain the difference between erotica and porn. I'll look for the link but if you can find it -- it's hilarious.
 
Isn't "erotica" that which heightens my sensuality in connection with sublime moments of sexual arousal while "porn" is that which evokes base carnal desires in other people? :rolleyes:


And on a more serious note, I see that you are a quibbler, estragon. I would enjoy having such a reader; if you would take a look at any of my stories and see if any are worth the quibble, I would appreciate receiving your comments.
 
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Most of what I write for Literotica I'm trying to make literary porn.

As for responding to comments on the stories, if a critique wasn't requested, I don't think there should be any surprise if the author responds negatively to it.
 
Most of what I write for Literotica I'm trying to make literary porn.

As for responding to comments on the stories, if a critique wasn't requested, I don't think there should be any surprise if the author responds negatively to it.

Most authors WANT feedback, and some, such as I, actually ask for it. Those who don't want feedback, or critiques, can avoid it easily enough.

I respond to feedback that isn't from Any Mouse, as long as there is something to respond to. If somebody says something like ?This is a piece of shit!" I don'r respond to that, even if there is a name attached. Sometimes I even respond to Any Mouse by posting a PM of my own.

The definition of "literature" is very broad, and it certainly includes written pornography. However, here, a distinction is usually made between whether or not a pornographic story has literary merit or not. Few if any of mine do, which is not something I consider a problem. :D
 
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Erotica v. Porn

This is a clip from the BBC show "Coupling," in which a guy, Steve, is invited by his girlfriend, Susan, to explain the difference between erotica and porn. Susan stumbled across a movie called "Lesbian Spank Inferno," which she labeled porn and Steve defended as erotica.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKGK2fplV_w
 
I beg for comments along with votes. Unfortunately, I don't get many. :(



But as one popular once put it, The only difference between literary writing with dirty bits and dirty writing with literary bits is the word order. I doubt that I have the talent for the former but aspire to the latter.
 
I have mixed emotions on this. Yet I have had a similar experience.

Of all the feedback I've gotten, Firebrain's was certainly the most helpful -- because she called me out on some of my bullshit. Now, I'm not saying that I went back and changed my bullshit, or regretted it, but it was really nice to have someone take the time to thoughtfully consider my story and point out some flaws or shortcomings, even if it was a matter of opinion. She did that.

I was, perhaps, a bit too nonchalant about this. I noted that I had intended all along on writing lighthearted, fun smut, and so I wasn't really trying as hard as I would with more serious fare.

She called me out on that, and she was right. I felt like a heel, and deservedly so. I've been very, very fortunate with my reader responses and my votes. I realized, when Firebrain told me not to be a tit, that this was a really crummy thing for someone who's had such good fortune to say. I do, in fact, try very hard at this, even if I don't see erotica/smut/textporn as high literature. I ponder. I polish. And I, too, fret about whether or not people will like stuff, even if I know deep down that I'm writing for my own enjoyment.

I still see it as porn. Kinda. I like stories that involve porn. I like porn that tells a story. Hell, two or three sentences setting up a scenario underneath pics/videos of porn online makes those images ten times hotter for me, even when it's patently silly. As George Lucas said (long before he lost his damn mind), a special effect without a story might be neat, but ultimately it's kind of boring.

I don't see anything really wrong with calling it porn, but we certainly shouldn't be dismissive of it, regardless. Writing is fun, but it's also WORK. It takes effort, thought, time and energy.

And, PennLady: I'll have you know that each and every breast in my writing is intended satirically.
 
I don't think "porn" and "literature" are mutually exclusive genres...

Pron is 'littachoor' just like "Wuthering Heights" or "Tom Sawyer"...the difference is most people won't admit that they read it. ;)
 
I still see it as porn. Kinda. I like stories that involve porn. I like porn that tells a story. Hell, two or three sentences setting up a scenario underneath pics/videos of porn online makes those images ten times hotter for me, even when it's patently silly. As George Lucas said (long before he lost his damn mind), a special effect without a story might be neat, but ultimately it's kind of boring.

George Lucas said that? Really? Wow.

But I agree that some kind of plot, character development -- something that gives a little depth to the story makes the porn/sex/erotica more fun and exciting when you get to it, because you have more of yourself invested in it. This was a comment I got on Lit (but not other sites) when I wrote In the Red Parlor.

I don't see anything really wrong with calling it porn, but we certainly shouldn't be dismissive of it, regardless. Writing is fun, but it's also WORK. It takes effort, thought, time and energy.

It certainly does and it's hard to find all of that in sufficient quantities.

And, PennLady: I'll have you know that each and every breast in my writing is intended satirically.

You can't hear that too often. :)
 
Most authors WANT feedback, and some, such as I, actually ask for it. Those who don't want feedback, or critiques, can avoid it easily enough.

Bullshit. Most authors want praise. When it gets around to criticizing them on content or presentation, those who "want" it drop off massively. Just because they left the comment button on doesn't mean they want negative comment or "helpful" pointers--often by someone blinder than they are on writing.

You (and so many others) are sucking into classic "just don't get it" here.

The definition of "literature" is very broad, and it certainly includes written pornography. However, here, a distinction is usually made between whether or not a pornographic story has literary merit or not. Few if any of mine do, which is not something I consider a problem. :D

I said "literary," not "literature." These are entirely different concepts.

And by "literary porn," I mean works that meet the "literary" designation in the mainstream but that give the sex graphically when it occurs. It's similar to what I'd like to see in movies. Top-notch movies in plot and characterization that just don't pan away or bring out the cheesecloth to drape over the cameras when the sex starts.
 
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Now "Coupling" is a TV series I'd pay satellite for. Pity it's not available in the US. He's right, you know. That is what being a bloke is all about.
 
Now "Coupling" is a TV series I'd pay satellite for. Pity it's not available in the US. He's right, you know. That is what being a bloke is all about.

And if you really like it, you can buy it on DVD. :D That's what we did. Always good for a laugh. And it's good to know that cushions and couches provide protection from Daleks.
 
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
Most authors WANT feedback, and some, such as I, actually ask for it. Those who don't want feedback, or critiques, can avoid it easily enough.

Bullshit. Most authors want praise. When it gets around to criticizing them on content or presentation, those who "want" it drop off massively. Just because they left the comment button on doesn't mean they want negative comment or "helpful" pointers--often by someone blinder than they are on writing.

You (and so many others) are sucking into classic "just don't get it" here.


Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
The definition of "literature" is very broad, and it certainly includes written pornography. However, here, a distinction is usually made between whether or not a pornographic story has literary merit or not. Few if any of mine do, which is not something I consider a problem.

I said "literary," not "literature." These are entirely different concepts.

And by "literary porn," I mean works that meet the "literary" designation in the mainstream but that give the sex graphically when it occurs. It's similar to what I'd like to see in movies. Top-notch movies in plot and characterization that just don't pan away or bring out the cheesecloth to drape over the cameras when the sex starts.

Obviously, most people prefer praise to putdowns, but I also like to get constructive criticism. Frequently I disagree with it, but it means the commenter is taking an interest in the story I have written.

"Literature" is a noun and "literary" is an adjective, but their meanings are quite similar. If one person calls a story "literature" and another says it is a literary story, they have said the same thing in different words.

You certainly can't accuse me of not giving the sex graphically when it occurs. :D
 
[Obviously, most people prefer praise to putdowns, but I also like to get constructive criticism. Frequently I disagree with it, but it means the commenter is taking an interest in the story I have written.


You aren't the majority of folks who post stories to Lit. That's my contention. Based on common sense and a look at the bulk of the stories being posted here.

"Literature" is a noun and "literary" is an adjective, but their meanings are quite similar. If one person calls a story "literature" and another says it is a literary story, they have said the same thing in different words.

I'm sorry. You just don't understand genre classification. No they aren't saying the same thing at all. It doesn't mean a rat's ass that the two words are derived from the same root word.
 
You aren't the majority of folks who post stories to Lit. That's my contention. Based on common sense and a look at the bulk of the stories being posted here.

I am just one person, but so are you.


I'm sorry. You just don't understand genre classification. No they aren't saying the same thing at all. It doesn't mean a rat's ass that the two words are derived from the same root word.

This is an entry in the online dictionary. Take a work at the fifth definition. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/literature
 
I am just one person, but so are you.

The difference is that you are only looking at yourself and speaking for others and I am seeing what the bulk of others doing/have reacted to the issue.

This is an entry in the online dictionary. Take a work at the fifth definition. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/literature

Oh, gawd. :rolleyes: No, ye of limited intellectual grasp, literary fiction is a genre, not a dictionary definition of "literary." Earth to Box.

You obviously don't venture out into the mainstream much.
 
SR71plt, are you this rude and confrontational to people in person? Or is it just an internet thing for you?

You can have disagreements with people without calling them stupid.
 
BALDERDASH

If it wasnt porn you'd all use your real names instead of alts.
 
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