Weirdness and Kink

[Setanta84]

I'm fairly new to all this, a problem cropped up for the first time, and I was hoping some of the more experienced people in the lifestyle could help me out. Here goes.

A little bit ago, I started talking to a submissive from my area. We hit it off, seemed to be compatible both in both our sexual and non-sexual interests, and things looked promising. Her thing was shame/humiliation.

However, the more I got to know her, the more the place that seemed to be coming from seemed ... unhealthy. This made me feel uncomfortable about engaging this and I communicated that, which led to a sort of falling out/her feeling we were no longer compatible.

I think I did the right thing there. But, in this dynamic, do people tend to just let the other person deal with whatever is driving them upstairs alone and deal with them as they are, even when it seems harmful to them? Or is what I did still generally what people do?

 

[BrightlyGo]

You probably shouldn't listen to me, but...

While I suppose it's possible that some folks' sexual kinks are 'symptoms' of some deep pop-psychology 'damage,' I think, unless you are a psychiatrist or whatever, it's better to take them at face value.

So, if she genuinely likes being humiliated, and you like coming up with creative ways to humiliate her, that's enough.

JMHO.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I think it depends on what your perception is and why. If you came to your conclusions because you felt there must be something wrong with her or both of you to enjoy this, and then began looking for what it was that was wrong with her and causing this, then it is possible you are not on the right track and have offended her at least, at most made her feel extremely uncomfortable being with you and exploring as you were. I can identify with this as it is not pleasant to have someone telling you there is something wrong with you because you are who you are, especially if they don't feel there is anything wrong with them for liking what they like.

Sometimes there is a genuine event in the past which was the beginning of their kink, and sometimes going with that is healthy. What might not be healthy is someone who does not understand or have training try to confront and 'fix' them. People cope in different ways, being supportive and on the same page can be the best medicine. Only she knows what her reality is, but I think you will have a hard time returning to a point where she feels ready to trust you with discussing that.

Catalina

 

[Setanta84]

I can identify with this as it is not pleasant to have someone telling you there is something wrong with you because you are who you are, especially if they don't feel there is anything wrong with them for liking what they like.

Sometimes there is a genuine event in the past which was the beginning of their kink, and sometimes going with that is healthy. What might not be healthy is someone who does not understand or have training try to confront and 'fix' them. People cope in different ways, being supportive and on the same page can be the best medicine. Only she knows what her reality is, but I think you will have a hard time returning to a point where she feels ready to trust you with discussing that.

Catalina

My issue was that her kink was rooted in her not being okay with her own identity. That had led her to do things that were a little self-destructive. The reason that made me uncomfortable with what she wanted was the humiliation revolved completely around her identity. It felt wrong going there with her after getting to know her.

 

[Stella_Omega]

My issue was that her kink was rooted in her not being okay with her own identity. That had led her to do things that were a little self-destructive. The reason that made me uncomfortable with what she wanted was the humiliation revolved completely around her identity. It felt wrong going there with her after getting to know her.

Yep, I have a problem with that dynamic as well. I will be very interested in what some of the subs here have to say about this!

 

[catalina_francisco]

My issue was that her kink was rooted in her not being okay with her own identity. That had led her to do things that were a little self-destructive. The reason that made me uncomfortable with what she wanted was the humiliation revolved completely around her identity. It felt wrong going there with her after getting to know her.

The thing is, it is difficult to humiliate someone around something they feel good about in terms of themselves....IMO it just doesn't work outside of pretending and roleplay which isn't the same feel. That being said, it is difficult to also comment fully without knowing more beyond the hinting at what the problem could be, and to do otherwise is also breaking her confidence and trust so not encouraged. Under the correct circumstances, working with things which are an issue through BDSM activities can help....done badly though it can create more issues.

Catalina

 

[Setanta84]

The other point of confusion that would seem to be good to work out for future engagements would be the following. When I started to get a general outline of her issues with identity and expressed how stoking that fire made me uncomfortable, she said something to the effect of "I don't want you to care about me and I'm sorry you do."

I may be on bad footing here, but you're supposed to care about the other person, right? I thought that's what sort of incentivized the power exchange, trust built on the idea that the other person actually gives a fuck about what happens to you. Stripping that away seems, eh, weird to me...

 

[IrisAlthea]

I don´t think it is so much about what people do or how you are supposed to feel, but more about how you feel and how you want your relationship to work.
Perhaps you just weren´t as compatible as yoy thought at first.

 

[Setanta84]

I tend to agree with the "Anna Karenina principle," i.e. there are many ways for a thing to fail but only one to make it work. That's the reason I take stock of how people do things, I'm looking for how things like this work.

 

[NomadLady]

My issue was that her kink was rooted in her not being okay with her own identity. That had led her to do things that were a little self-destructive. The reason that made me uncomfortable with what she wanted was the humiliation revolved completely around her identity. It felt wrong going there with her after getting to know her.

I would avoid that like you said...her own identity crisis and self-destructive behavior does not lend it's self to a mentally healthy submissive.

 

[CutieMouse]

The other point of confusion that would seem to be good to work out for future engagements would be the following. When I started to get a general outline of her issues with identity and expressed how stoking that fire made me uncomfortable, she said something to the effect of "I don't want you to care about me and I'm sorry you do."

I may be on bad footing here, but you're supposed to care about the other person, right? I thought that's what sort of incentivized the power exchange, trust built on the idea that the other person actually gives a fuck about what happens to you. Stripping that away seems, eh, weird to me...

I'm one of those odd ducks that thrives on mindfucks, objectification and humiliation. 10 years ago, it would have been a very destructive path to walk, because I wasn't whole enough yet to wander down that dark little rabbit hole and come out the other end feeling loved. Because for me one of the keys to embracing the objectification/humiliation/etc in a healthy manner, is my ability to recognize the person doing the humiliating is a pretty lucky bastard [to have someone like me to enjoy that way].

D/s and BDSM aren't replacements for therapy. And some people (unfortunately) forget or ignore that.

 

[BiBunny]

I'm not sure that I buy that we all have to be perfectly sane and sound of mind to engage in BDSM.

 

[midwestyankee]

I'm not sure that I buy that we all have to be perfectly sane and sound of mind to engage in BDSM.

Would you rent it at a discount?

 

[CutieMouse]

I'm not sure that I buy that we all have to be perfectly sane and sound of mind to engage in BDSM.

I'm not saying people have to be bastions of mental health to engage in kink, but I do think there us an ethical resonsibility to have ones shit together [as much as possible].

 

[Felix_Jones]

I'm not sure that I buy that we all have to be perfectly sane and sound of mind to engage in BDSM.

I would argue further that there are armies of people who are NOT of perfectly sane and sound mind engaging in things a lot more critical than kink.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'm not saying people have to be bastions of mental health to engage in kink, but I do think there us an ethical resonsibility to have ones shit together [as much as possible].

And also, if someone is liable to fall apart... Picking up the pieces can take a lot of time and money. And guilt, and anger.

 

[Netzach]

Why not just "I wasn't comfortable with her."

Don't pop analyze someone just because you're sketched out by her. Just say "I'm skeeved by this" and move on.

 

[Etoile]

I think I did the right thing there. But, in this dynamic, do people tend to just let the other person deal with whatever is driving them upstairs alone and deal with them as they are, even when it seems harmful to them? Or is what I did still generally what people do?

Pretty much what Netzach said.

But also, I would say that it depends whether the people are in an established relationship. If you had gotten close to her and started a real relationship and you were committed to each other, then I'd say yeah, stick it out and don't bolt because she's a little psycho. But for something that you haven't really started yet, I would say you are totally fine leaving with a "best of luck to you" and forgetting about it. You're not responsible for fixing her at all, and certainly not if you don't have a relationship with her.

 

[eastern sun]

The other point of confusion that would seem to be good to work out for future engagements would be the following. When I started to get a general outline of her issues with identity and expressed how stoking that fire made me uncomfortable, she said something to the effect of "I don't want you to care about me and I'm sorry you do."

I may be on bad footing here, but you're supposed to care about the other person, right? I thought that's what sort of incentivized the power exchange, trust built on the idea that the other person actually gives a fuck about what happens to you. Stripping that away seems, eh, weird to me...

I agree with Catalina that it's hard to humiliate someone for something they're comfortable with, which means some humiliation games touch very sensitive areas. And I also agree that if she's presenting something you're uncomfortable with early in the relationship, you have the right to say you're uncomfortable and move on.

I've seen some really cold and abusive-looking relationships that were still "working" for the parties involved. I personally question the long-term effects - whether the benefits of being in a relationship (i.e. partnering, companionship, attention, etc.) outweighs the potential damage of some of the more abusive-looking behaviors. But some of the people I've met in those relationships are carrying some very heavy baggage, and the stability of the relationship is vitally important in their lives. (What's a few emotional ups and downs, really?)

There's a lot of ground, though, between the warm and fuzzy and the cold and cruel. "I don't want you to care about me" doesn't necessarily mean "I don't want you to take my needs into consideration." Sometimes I get off in a mental/emotional kind of way on coldness - being ignored or experiencing withdrawal of affection and attention - especially when I know what the reasons are - and that could come out as "I don't want you to care about me."

That's why compatibility is so crucial. You both have to be able to tolerate each other's crap. And frankly, it takes a lot of creativity and patience, in my opinion, to not only tolerate each other's crap, but make it work - like fertilizer - for the benefit of the relationship.

 

[danigrl84]

I definitely have respect for you not pursuing something that you feel is unhealthy. Just like a real relationship, one online must be built on common interests, etc. If you feel uncomfortable with why your sub is reaching certainer conclusions you have every right to talk to her about it and perhaps end the relationship if you do not want the same things, for at least similar reasons.
what do i know.....good luck kiddo

 

[eastern sun]

Was this an online relationship?

How do you assess health online? Content of messages? Frequency of messages?

 

[Setanta84]

Why not just "I wasn't comfortable with her."

Don't pop analyze someone just because you're sketched out by her. Just say "I'm skeeved by this" and move on.

I didn't do any analyzing, she came out and explicitly stated her issues and those issues had concrete and real consequences for her almost as soon as I knew about them. The reason I didn't say "I'm skeeved by this" and move on is I wasn't so skeeved as concerned for her and I liked her. I still like her. She's smart and funny, I enjoyed our conversations...

Pretty much what Netzach said.

But also, I would say that it depends whether the people are in an established relationship. If you had gotten close to her and started a real relationship and you were committed to each other, then I'd say yeah, stick it out and don't bolt because she's a little psycho. But for something that you haven't really started yet, I would say you are totally fine leaving with a "best of luck to you" and forgetting about it. You're not responsible for fixing her at all, and certainly not if you don't have a relationship with her.

Thanks for the advice, she had pretty much the same stance on it as this: it's not my problem. I just have difficulty washing my hands of someone's problems when I care about the person. I think that's something I'll have to work on navigating in the future.

I agree with Catalina that it's hard to humiliate someone for something they're comfortable with, which means some humiliation games touch very sensitive areas. And I also agree that if she's presenting something you're uncomfortable with early in the relationship, you have the right to say you're uncomfortable and move on.

I've seen some really cold and abusive-looking relationships that were still "working" for the parties involved. I personally question the long-term effects - whether the benefits of being in a relationship (i.e. partnering, companionship, attention, etc.) outweighs the potential damage of some of the more abusive-looking behaviors. But some of the people I've met in those relationships are carrying some very heavy baggage, and the stability of the relationship is vitally important in their lives. (What's a few emotional ups and downs, really?)

There's a lot of ground, though, between the warm and fuzzy and the cold and cruel. "I don't want you to care about me" doesn't necessarily mean "I don't want you to take my needs into consideration." Sometimes I get off in a mental/emotional kind of way on coldness - being ignored or experiencing withdrawal of affection and attention - especially when I know what the reasons are - and that could come out as "I don't want you to care about me."

That's why compatibility is so crucial. You both have to be able to tolerate each other's crap. And frankly, it takes a lot of creativity and patience, in my opinion, to not only tolerate each other's crap, but make it work - like fertilizer - for the benefit of the relationship.

Thanks for the insight. Frankly, I'm not sure what happened here and it bothers me because it followed a really, really familiar pattern that's been in play for most of my twenties: meet a funny, smart, attractive young professional woman and find out you two like each other, establish an intense bond early in the relationship, then said woman confides that she pushes people who care about her away and reveals profound psychological/emotional issues, and after realizing she opened up to you the woman freaks out and pushes you away. For it to be so common, I know I have to be--on some level--seeking that kind of person out or somehow doing something that draws the attention of that kind of woman, but I just don't know what it is.

 

[reachedme]

hi, I had to deal with someone with a mental illness for a long time, I'm no expert and obviously I have never met either of you but she might just have been looking for release some cathertic way of feeling free for a moment
I know it is what I am looking for

 

[vintage63]

However, the more I got to know her, the more the place that seemed to be coming from seemed ... unhealthy. This made me feel uncomfortable about engaging this and I communicated that, which led to a sort of falling out/her feeling we were no longer compatible.

OK so first off I would like to congratulate you on the communicating. Any relationship will be better because of it.
I do not think you were analyzing or using "pop analyze", but you were expressing your uncomfortableness and that's fine, you should. If you are not comfortable then talk and if you are still uncomfortable you move on. That's regardless of whether or not the person has issues or not. You have to be true to you. No relationship will work if you are not.

cheers

 

[midwestyankee]

Thanks for the insight. Frankly, I'm not sure what happened here and it bothers me because it followed a really, really familiar pattern that's been in play for most of my twenties: meet a funny, smart, attractive young professional woman and find out you two like each other, establish an intense bond early in the relationship, then said woman confides that she pushes people who care about her away and reveals profound psychological/emotional issues, and after realizing she opened up to you the woman freaks out and pushes you away. For it to be so common, I know I have to be--on some level--seeking that kind of person out or somehow doing something that draws the attention of that kind of woman, but I just don't know what it is.

I think you're right here. You probably are attracted to such women by some cues in their early-dating behavior and perhaps that triggers a white-knight response on your part. While there's a lot to be said for being kind and caring and helpful in your relationships, when you take the role of the white knight in your relationships you are, by default, setting things up so that you don't every have an actual partner. You're acquiring a patient instead, and that's just not a good basis for a relationship. DAMHIKT.