A Master's 'right' to play with others

[ataxia.girl]

Going back on one's word is wrong, I agree.

I just find it interesting that he gave his word to be more committed to the relationship than his "slave."

He's a Daddy

 

[JMohegan]

He's a Daddy

So for you this is like a sibling rivalry type of thing?

Can't say much for his method of dealing with it. Telling you he regrets taking on responsibility for her seems neither mature nor helpful.

 

[quietserenity]

So for you this is like a sibling rivalry type of thing?

Can't say much for his method of dealing with it. Telling you he regrets taking on responsibility for her seems neither mature nor helpful.

I agree with this. Why did he bring this up to you, what was he looking for?

 

[ataxia.girl]

So for you this is like a sibling rivalry type of thing?

Can't say much for his method of dealing with it. Telling you he regrets taking on responsibility for her seems neither mature nor helpful.

Well it was complicated like all things are in human interaction. It is his fault but that doesn't make it suck less. It was handled badly but regardless it is still his right.

 

[quietserenity]

I will say this, because I've no desire to make you feel worse than you do when you're so obviously hurting.

Yes, he has the right to take on another, if he wishes. But, in my opinion, he also has the responsibility to take care of anyone he takes on. I do not believe being a Dominant of any sort is a catch-all for bad or inconsiderate behavior. Maybe you might seek an opportunity to discuss this with him? Does he know how you're feeling?

 

[Bandit58]

He exercises the right to have others. i hate it. i really really really hate it but he does what he wants and there's not a lot i can do about it.

When we got together i was married and he was single so there was never any question that he had a right to date. Now i'm single and its much much harder.

He recently dated and then acquired a slave. i detest her. i want her gone... out of the picture but she's not. He told her she was his and he never goes back on his word even though he has told me he regrets it. i know he does but she's his now and that's that unless and until she asks to be released.

We are LDR and she is there and i am not. i try not to think about it and just carry on. Nothing he has done towards me has changed. He is as he has always been so why does her existence bother me so much?

Do you get to see him yourself or is your relationship strictly long distance?
I'm thinking maybe it wouldn't feel so bad if you got some "skin to skin" time with him, maybe without this other girl around while you are visiting. Or can he find time to visit you instead?

I wonder sometimes why people put up with things in a D/s relationship that they probably wouldn't put up with in a vanilla one.

 

[ataxia.girl]

Do you get to see him yourself or is your relationship strictly long distance?
I'm thinking maybe it wouldn't feel so bad if you got some "skin to skin" time with him, maybe without this other girl around while you are visiting. Or can he find time to visit you instead?

I wonder sometimes why people put up with things in a D/s relationship that they probably wouldn't put up with in a vanilla one.

I see him about once every 6 weeks. We've been together over 2 years. Nothing quite like this has ever happened before and like i said when we met i was married and he wasn't so there was no question he would date. Now i'm not married anymore and i'm finding it more difficult to accept him being with others. i have no choice, its just more difficult.

 

[eastern sun]

I see him about once every 6 weeks. We've been together over 2 years. Nothing quite like this has ever happened before and like i said when we met i was married and he wasn't so there was no question he would date. Now i'm not married anymore and i'm finding it more difficult to accept him being with others. i have no choice, its just more difficult.

Why does he say he regrets it?

 

[ataxia.girl]

Why does he say he regrets it?

It wasn't a planned thing. Went out on a couple of "dates." She thinks she's collared. i don't know enough particulars to know what he said to her to make her think that. So now she's all over fet talking about her "Daddy."

Makes me crazy.

He regrets it because the whole thing has become a big pain in his ass lol.

 

[Etoile]

He exercises the right to have others. i hate it. i really really really hate it but he does what he wants and there's not a lot i can do about it.

When we got together i was married and he was single so there was never any question that he had a right to date. Now i'm single and its much much harder.

Regardless of the girl he's currently seeing, these things you've said here are very important.

As someone who is in a poly/kinky relationship, I feel very strongly that poly issues should be discussed on an equal level. Some people are wired for poly, just like some people are wired for kink - and some people aren't.

I think your divorce calls for a renegotiation of terms, and it should be done on equal footing. You're clearly not okay with his seeing other people, and he needs to hear that from a non-submissive point of view.

I don't view this as "exercising the right" - poly is something both people need to be okay with. If you remain not okay with it, and he keeps doing it, it's going to poison your relationship and make it sour until you don't want to be with him anymore.

 

[lissa808]

His right? Well yes it is. Am i gonna be happy about it? No fucking way. And I would repectfully (one can only hope) mention how I feel, but it is still his decision.

 

[Marquis]

I'm curious to know how others view this. Is it an expected part of being a slave? Is it written into a contract? Do some set it as a definite 'no'? If it is practiced, how is it done? How does the pyl feel about it? How is she supposed to feel about it? And on a different tangent, what about introducing a third female when the pyl is not bi-curious?

My PYL and I are still sorting out how far our BDSM relationship is going to go (we were vanilla boyfriend and girlfriend first). I've told him I wanted a 24/7 D/s relationship, and may consider slavery in the future but not at this stage. I'm not one to feel pressured into doing anything I don't want to do, which is why I'm keen to set my limits now and then say "go for it". I'm sure things will change as the relationship progresses, so I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of, what will I allow now? Will I want to change that limit later?

I should maybe mention here that I'm divorced, and therefore not sure if I still believe in monogamy. If I was truly owned by someone, and knew for a certainty that he would come home to me and I was the only constant girl in his life, and that it was making him happy, maybe I could be ok with it...? Maybe it's a matter of, you're not a slave so you have your choice if it happens or not, or you are a slave so deal with it?

Please... I don't want to hear anything about 'committed versus casual BDSM' I'm thinking along the lines of a Master forever owning a slave, and having the right to occasionally play with other slaves... how does it work?

I haven't read any of the responses, but I want to throw this out there.

And also, I want to be upfront and say I'm in a mood and I'm looking for a soapbox and could be this really has nothing at all to do with you, and afterall I really don't know you one bit.

This whole D/s thing is fucking bullshit.

A bunch of subs trying to slowly, subtly, in the most deceptive ways possible.... get out of a relationship, with another human being - exactly what the fuck they wanted before they even met him(her). Oh, and without taking a lick of responsibility for any of it.

It's all just two people getting together and working out a deal.

I'll pay your bills (and not be a dick about it), if you let me stick my thing in your thing (and not be a bitch about it).

I'll suck your cock (and act like I like it), if you listen to my stories (and act like you like them).

I've never felt so cynical or disgusted with relationships in my life. Of course, I'm in a stage where it would make sense to feel that way. I don't know if my life is going to get better than this. As far as I can tell, I've always been pretty cynical. I'm not old.

I'm keen to set my limits now and then say "go for it"


This sentence, more than any other, hurts my diaphragm.

"go for it"

Within my limits.

This is like me saying, suck my cock.

I don't care how you do it.

Go crazy, baby.

 

[JMohegan]

It wasn't a planned thing. Went out on a couple of "dates." She thinks she's collared. i don't know enough particulars to know what he said to her to make her think that. So now she's all over fet talking about her "Daddy."

Makes me crazy.

He regrets it because the whole thing has become a big pain in his ass lol.

He made an "I'll never leave you" commitment after a couple of dates? Come on. How old is this guy, 14?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Do you get to see him yourself or is your relationship strictly long distance?
I'm thinking maybe it wouldn't feel so bad if you got some "skin to skin" time with him, maybe without this other girl around while you are visiting. Or can he find time to visit you instead?

I wonder sometimes why people put up with things in a D/s relationship that they probably wouldn't put up with in a vanilla one.

I always wonder that.

 

[Bandit58]

His right? Well yes it is. Am i gonna be happy about it? No fucking way. And I would repectfully (one can only hope) mention how I feel, but it is still his decision.

It is his right, if he chooses to exercise it. However I would hope that a PYL would take my feelings into consideration before he went out and found another.

As I posted earlier in this thread, Sir does play with others but only if I am present, and He has said that if I ever become uncomfortable with this arrangement then we won't do it. To both of us, the primary relationship is more important than any temporary outside play. We are married and I am collared, and I know that I always come first

I always wonder that.

pyl doesn't equal doormat. I am sorry, but accepting that your PYL has an automatic right to go out and play with others, if you are not happy about it, just doesn't fly. Would you let your vanilla husband/partner go out and play around? Why should it be any different just because he calls himself a PYL?

 

[lissa808]

It is his right, if he chooses to exercise it. However I would hope that a PYL would take my feelings into consideration before he went out and found another.

As I posted earlier in this thread, Sir does play with others but only if I am present, and He has said that if I ever become uncomfortable with this arrangement then we won't do it. To both of us, the primary relationship is more important than any temporary outside play. We are married and I am collared, and I know that I always come first



pyl doesn't equal doormat. I am sorry, but accepting that your PYL has an automatic right to go out and play with others, if you are not happy about it, just doesn't fly. Would you let your vanilla husband/partner go out and play around? Why should it be any different just because he calls himself a PYL?

Bwhahaha....I am so far from a doormat. My mouth can and does get me into trouble.
I think he will take my feelings into consideration, just as I will do what he says because that is what I have agreed to. It would make me very unhappy were he to play with others and he knows that. If there are others there, I would most likely be involved. Still, ultimately, bottom fucking line, I will do what I am told. Why? Because I want to please him and he more than pleases me.

 

[Etoile]

I haven't read any of the responses, but I want to throw this out there.

And also, I want to be upfront and say I'm in a mood and I'm looking for a soapbox and could be this really has nothing at all to do with you, and afterall I really don't know you one bit.

This whole D/s thing is fucking bullshit.

A bunch of subs trying to slowly, subtly, in the most deceptive ways possible.... get out of a relationship, with another human being - exactly what the fuck they wanted before they even met him(her). Oh, and without taking a lick of responsibility for any of it.

It's all just two people getting together and working out a deal.

I'll pay your bills (and not be a dick about it), if you let me stick my thing in your thing (and not be a bitch about it).

I'll suck your cock (and act like I like it), if you listen to my stoyries (and act like you like them).

I've never felt so cynical or disgusted with relationships in my life. Of course, I'm in a stage where it would make sense to feel that way. I don't know if my life is going to get better than this. As far as I can tell, I've always been pretty cynical. I'm not old.

I'm keen to set my limits now and then say "go for it"


This sentence, more than any other, hurts my diaphragm.

"go for it"

Within my limits.

This is like me saying, suck my cock.

I don't care how you do it.

Go crazy, baby.

Welcome to life. All relationships are about negotiations. D/s or otherwise. Why shouldn't people strive for what will make them happiest? That's how the world is. If you want someone who doesn't come with a pre-arranged set of expectations, buy a RealDoll.

 

[satindesire]

If you expect nothing out of a person, why be in a relationship with them? You know who I expect nothing out of? Total and complete strangers who I've never seen in person before, or communicated with in any way.

Every person on this planet expects something out of people...even strangers expect things out of strangers...whether it's to be polite when speaking to them, display social norms while in public, etc, there's no such thing as a human being that expects nothing out of no one.

Because of our emotional ties to the people we're in a relationship with, we expect even MORE out of them. It could be anything from acting like a responsible adult with their health and money, being respectful when talking, or something as small as not leaving wet towels on the floor after a shower, we all NEED certain things from the people in our lives in order to be content.

The only time in my opinion that it's okay to be disgusted by expectations is when they have been dishonest in some way about said expectations, or refuse to communicate those expectations to you and then punish you for not fulfilling them.

To be disgusted by relationships because someone expects something from you is a little sociopathic. You expect things from your partners, they expect things from you, and that's not only human nature but fair. You cannot want them to give you everything and expect nothing in return.

Well, no, you CAN. You can be a user and an emotional vampire and a toxic person and whatever floats your boat, HOWEVER, that will make it so that every person who comes into contact with you eventually will be sucked dry like an old sponge and they will eventually wither and leave you, either physically or mentally and emotionally.

 

[Cattypuss]

I know we're all different, but in ataxia's situation I would lose all respect (and therefore love) for a man who was too afraid either to stand up and be fully committed to his decisions, or stand up and reverse them.

 

[Etoile]

If you expect nothing out of a person, why be in a relationship with them? You know who I expect nothing out of? Total and complete strangers who I've never seen in person before, or communicated with in any way.

Every person on this planet expects something out of people...even strangers expect things out of strangers...whether it's to be polite when speaking to them, display social norms while in public, etc, there's no such thing as a human being that expects nothing out of no one.

Because of our emotional ties to the people we're in a relationship with, we expect even MORE out of them. It could be anything from acting like a responsible adult with their health and money, being respectful when talking, or something as small as not leaving wet towels on the floor after a shower, we all NEED certain things from the people in our lives in order to be content.

The only time in my opinion that it's okay to be disgusted by expectations is when they have been dishonest in some way about said expectations, or refuse to communicate those expectations to you and then punish you for not fulfilling them.

To be disgusted by relationships because someone expects something from you is a little sociopathic. You expect things from your partners, they expect things from you, and that's not only human nature but fair. You cannot want them to give you everything and expect nothing in return.

Well, no, you CAN. You can be a user and an emotional vampire and a toxic person and whatever floats your boat, HOWEVER, that will make it so that every person who comes into contact with you eventually will be sucked dry like an old sponge and they will eventually wither and leave you, either physically or mentally and emotionally.

Excellent post. I seem to recall, too, that Marquis has acknowledged in the past that he has sociopathic tendencies.

 

[satindesire]

Excellent post. I seem to recall, too, that Marquis has acknowledged in the past that he has sociopathic tendencies.

...Really?

Well, I don't really know what to say to that. I guess it makes sense now.

 

[Etoile]

...Really?

Well, I don't really know what to say to that. I guess it makes sense now.

It means you're right. And hopefully he will see your post and learn from it.

 

[JMohegan]

I'll paraphrase my understanding of Marquis' point. (Which could be wide of the mark; if so I'm sure he'll tell me.)

The concept of submitting to another person's dominance implies a certain amount of deference. Acceding to the preferences, wants, needs, whims of the dominant party.

Not just talking about such deference, but actually deferring. Not committing to deference and then engaging in passive aggressive manipulation or bargaining in order to avoid following through on that commitment, but actually, literally, accepting the directives of the dominant party and deferring one's own preferences accordingly.

If that type of deference never actually takes place in a relationship, then the "whole D/s thing is fucking bullshit."

If that's what Marquis is saying, then I agree with his essential point. Put differently, I'd say that D/s is defined in those moments when two people disagree or harbor opposing preferences as to what should happen next. The dominant party is the one whose wants, needs, and preferences are addressed in the manner of his/her choosing. The submissive party is the one who defers.

 

[Etoile]

I'll paraphrase my understanding of Marquis' point. (Which could be wide of the mark; if so I'm sure he'll tell me.)

The concept of submitting to another person's dominance implies a certain amount of deference. Acceding to the preferences, wants, needs, whims of the dominant party.

Not just talking about such deference, but actually deferring. Not committing to deference and then engaging in passive aggressive manipulation or bargaining in order to avoid following through on that commitment, but actually, literally, accepting the directives of the dominant party and deferring one's own preferences accordingly.

If that type of deference never actually takes place in a relationship, then the "whole D/s thing is fucking bullshit."

If that's what Marquis is saying, then I agree with his essential point. Put differently, I'd say that D/s is defined in those moments when two people disagree or harbor opposing preferences as to what should happen next. The dominant party is the one whose wants, needs, and preferences are addressed in the manner of his/her choosing. The submissive party is the one who defers.

I think this might be what he was trying to say, but instead he came out with a flurry of rage at the concept of D/s in general. What I got from his post was that he can't find a girlfriend who won't expect anything of him, won't top from the bottom, etc. I agree with you that D/s involves deference, but that's not what I got from Marquis at all.

As for deference, I maintain that it should be discussed as equals, because if either party is against it, deep in their soul (regardless even of what their conscious mind says), then it will create a pain and sorrow so deep, a despair so profound, that it will fatally damage the relationship.

I speak from first hand experience. If it's truly not okay with the sub that the dom sees other people, they are setting themselves up for trouble.

 

[satindesire]

I'll paraphrase my understanding of Marquis' point. (Which could be wide of the mark; if so I'm sure he'll tell me.)

The concept of submitting to another person's dominance implies a certain amount of deference. Acceding to the preferences, wants, needs, whims of the dominant party.

Not just talking about such deference, but actually deferring. Not committing to deference and then engaging in passive aggressive manipulation or bargaining in order to avoid following through on that commitment, but actually, literally, accepting the directives of the dominant party and deferring one's own preferences accordingly.

If that type of deference never actually takes place in a relationship, then the "whole D/s thing is fucking bullshit."

If that's what Marquis is saying, then I agree with his essential point. Put differently, I'd say that D/s is defined in those moments when two people disagree or harbor opposing preferences as to what should happen next. The dominant party is the one whose wants, needs, and preferences are addressed in the manner of his/her choosing. The submissive party is the one who defers.

I think this might be what he was trying to say, but instead he came out with a flurry of rage at the concept of D/s in general. What I got from his post was that he can't find a girlfriend who won't expect anything of him, won't top from the bottom, etc. I agree with you that D/s involves deference, but that's not what I got from Marquis at all.

As for deference, I maintain that it should be discussed as equals, because if either party is against it, deep in their soul (regardless even of what their conscious mind says), then it will create a pain and sorrow so deep, a despair so profound, that it will fatally damage the relationship.

I speak from first hand experience. If it's truly not okay with the sub that the dom sees other people, they are setting themselves up for trouble.

And if a submissive isn't okay with the Dom seeing other people, that doesn't make the sub "not a real sub". I think everyone is entitled to their own limits, regardless of labels. Limits do not a sub make.