Seriously

[Bette_coquette]

I've been thinking about this for a couple of hours now. I'm one of those that some may see as simply "playing dress up" in regards to BDSM. I don't know the lingo for the most part and I'm not familiar with the rules of what a sub can do and what a Dom/me can do. I keep our play and roles out of our professional lives to show respect for our various employers, so it's mostly a part of our nights and weekends.

If I were posting here a great deal, it would be obvious to many that as far as BDSM goes, I'm rather learning as I go and that's mostly without benefit of reading stuff on the internet. I don't want to ruin the lives we're enjoying by reading something here or elsewhere and feeling I'm doing it wrong. I don't want to follow a script. Even the fact that I refer to my man as a pet irks some, but it's a title of convenience for me.

I'm all about living and letting others live. If one believes I'm not a real dominant because I don't follow the rules, written or otherwise, then I'm perfectly fine with that.

 

[Keroin]

Been there, looked around, talked to the locals, bought a postcard and left before it killed me.

I LOL'd at this, BTW.

 

[teknight]

I've been thinking about this for a couple of hours now. I'm one of those that some may see as simply "playing dress up" in regards to BDSM. I don't know the lingo for the most part and I'm not familiar with the rules of what a sub can do and what a Dom/me can do. I keep our play and roles out of our professional lives to show respect for our various employers, so it's mostly a part of our nights and weekends.

If I were posting here a great deal, it would be obvious to many that as far as BDSM goes, I'm rather learning as I go and that's mostly without benefit of reading stuff on the internet. I don't want to ruin the lives we're enjoying by reading something here or elsewhere and feeling I'm doing it wrong. I don't want to follow a script. Even the fact that I refer to my man as a pet irks some, but it's a title of convenience for me.

I'm all about living and letting others live. If one believes I'm not a real dominant because I don't follow the rules, written or otherwise, then I'm perfectly fine with that.

You don't follow the rules?!?!?! You cannot be a twue Domme!!!!

Sarcasm aside, I'm by far not an authority (an anything), however, beyond some instances of play where safety precautions should be taken, so that no (permanent) damage occurs, I don't see how one could write a rule book....much as there exists a BDSM community, it seems to me to be atomized, as each person has their own preferences and limits. Thus no set of hard rules could ever possibly satisfy all.

 

[Bette_coquette]

You don't follow the rules?!?!?! You cannot be a twue Domme!!!!

Sarcasm aside, I'm by far not an authority (an anything), however, beyond some instances of play where safety precautions should be taken, so that no (permanent) damage occurs, I don't see how one could write a rule book....much as there exists a BDSM community, it seems to me to be atomized, as each person has their own preferences and limits. Thus no set of hard rules could ever possibly satisfy all.

Very good point. I've learned some things about safety here and have made adjustments. I always stress that I want to take care of my pet, not use him up and throw him away.

 

[teknight]

Very good point. I've learned some things about safety here and have made adjustments. I always stress that I want to take care of my pet, not use him up and throw him away.

Dead bodies are hard to carry....or so I've heard. >_> <_<

 

[DVS]

i take my submission seriously. I take my devotion, loyalty and obedience to my dominant seriously.

But we don't take life so seriously. He and I are both very active on Fetlife. We both flirt and tease around and have a good time. We don't go to munches or play parties because our relationship is more personal we don't put it out on display.


I don't care if people want to be bedroom only, or keep it to play parties, or do what ever they want.

But I expect people to let me do my relationship the way I want, also. It does drive me crazy when someone says they are submissive and their actions do not indicate their submission in the least. I keep my month shut and just move on. But when they start making fun of me or harassing me because they think I am too serious when I refuse to act a certain way--that annoys the hell out of me. There are lines I will not cross.

I also get peeved when people start in with the -you met on the internet and you don't into heavy masochistic play so therefor you don't know what true submission really is- I am slowly learning to just ignore people like that

My submission is 24/7. But I've got a busy life-a husband, 3 teenagers, work, elderly parents, a house etc. It is not difficult to do it all.

There are quite a few people out there that aren't really Dom or sub, no matter what they may say. The Internet has allowed the scum of the world to be whoever they want to be. When someone says things like that, I picture a pimply 14 year old with time to waste and his hormones on speed.

Submission is an individual thing. Someone on the outside can't dictate the degree of submission between two consenting adults.

A pimply 14 year old needs love, too. The kind a no nonsense Domme can give.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Why not ask if she rakes her own lawn, or if she's worried about the debt situation in Spain?

Keroin, the entire first page of this thread is filled with people making a distinction between taking the BDSM dynamic seriously, and the capacity to have a playful good time.

And then you popped on and explained that you can't do the control thing more extensively, because you want to have a full life!

I'm not attacking you, I'm trying to help you see this from the other side. Catalina is right. This is exactly the flip side of the "oooh, I'm a slave because I love and trust my partner so completely" nonsense.

Actually, the assumption seems to be that people who do not lifestyle don't take the dynamic seriously, and that's what's got some of us on our uppers.

As I pointed out before, "PLAY," in BDSM terms does not mean
"Frolicking in the dewy grass with the puppies and kids."

I "PLAY" in the BDSM sense and I take that pretty seriously.

 

[JMohegan]

Actually, the assumption seems to be that people who do not lifestyle don't take the dynamic seriously, and that's what's got some of us on our uppers.

There's definitely some of that type of assumption here, too!

A whole lot of assumptions being made that are wide of the mark.

 

[Keroin]

Why not ask if she rakes her own lawn, or if she's worried about the debt situation in Spain?

Keroin, the entire first page of this thread is filled with people making a distinction between taking the BDSM dynamic seriously, and the capacity to have a playful good time.

And then you popped on and explained that you can't do the control thing more extensively, because you want to have a full life!

I'm not attacking you, I'm trying to help you see this from the other side. Catalina is right. This is exactly the flip side of the "oooh, I'm a slave because I love and trust my partner so completely" nonsense.

OK, I see what you're saying. In my defense, if the thread was about lawn maintenance or economics, I might ask her those questions.

To clarify, I'm sure that those who take the dynamic seriously can and do have a good time, are playful, etc. However, I've seen on this board, on several occasions, where some, (usually new), person will post something or start a thread and then get pounced upon because, as ITW put it, they lack the proper vocabulary or they are just trying to spice up their sex life with a little BDSM and are not deemed "real" or "serious" or what have you. It raises questions for me. Perhaps questions not adequately expressed, however.

And as for my own relationship, I don't do the control thing more extensively because that's just who I am and who L is. My comment was that I choose not to "focus" on the power dynamic more than any other aspect of my life. I'm not sure if that makes any sense. I'm saying that for me, I have a limited amount of time and energy and I personally (just me) couldn't devote more attention to that aspect of my life without taking away from other aspects of it that I value. For some folks, it's a different story, I imagine.

 

[JMohegan]

OK, I see what you're saying. In my defense, if the thread was about lawn maintenance or economics, I might ask her those questions.

To clarify, I'm sure that those who take the dynamic seriously can and do have a good time, are playful, etc. However, I've seen on this board, on several occasions, where some, (usually new), person will post something or start a thread and then get pounced upon because, as ITW put it, they lack the proper vocabulary or they are just trying to spice up their sex life with a little BDSM and are not deemed "real" or "serious" or what have you. It raises questions for me. Perhaps questions not adequately expressed, however.

And as for my own relationship, I don't do the control thing more extensively because that's just who I am and who L is. My comment was that I choose not to "focus" on the power dynamic more than any other aspect of my life. I'm not sure if that makes any sense. I'm saying that for me, I have a limited amount of time and energy and I personally (just me) couldn't devote more attention to that aspect of my life without taking away from other aspects of it that I value. For some folks, it's a different story, I imagine.

Focus aside, do you really want to be controlled in non-bedroom aspects of your life? Isn't that the root of it, really? Just how much deferring are you comfortable with? How much are you craving?

Control is not good or bad, inherently. It's a question of fit. Broader control doesn't mean more trust or fewer playful moments or better topping skills; it just means the authority in the relationship is less balanced.

As for the way newcomers are treated as in ITW's example, I'd say that sometimes folks here are clearly being obnoxious, but other times, comments & corrections seem prompted by a desire to suggest, aid, or educate.

 

[Keroin]

Focus aside, do you really want to be controlled in non-bedroom aspects of your life?

For the most part, no. (But sometimes, in some situations, yes).

Isn't that the root of it, really?

Hm. Don't know. I honestly haven't put a lot of thought into it.

Just how much deferring are you comfortable with? How much are you craving?

That tends to fluctuate.

Control is not good or bad, inherently. It's a question of fit. Broader control doesn't mean more trust or fewer playful moments or better topping skills; it just means the authority in the relationship is less balanced.

As for the way newcomers are treated as in ITW's example, I'd say that sometimes folks here are clearly being obnoxious, but other times, comments & corrections seem prompted by a desire to suggest, aid, or educate.

OK, agreed. I suppose I feel more empathy for the "less serious" newbs that get pounced on than I do for the "old hats" who get interrogated or attacked for their chosen lives because I fall more to the former side of the spectrum than the latter.

I have tried to learn and understand the other side. I think I'm better at it than I used to be. I won't lie, however, and say that I completely grok that perspective - perhaps I never will.

 

[JMohegan]

OK, agreed. I suppose I feel more empathy for the "less serious" newbs that get pounced on than I do for the "old hats" who get interrogated or attacked for their chosen lives because I fall more to the former side of the spectrum than the latter.

I have tried to learn and understand the other side. I think I'm better at it than I used to be. I won't lie, however, and say that I completely grok that perspective - perhaps I never will.

Some of the newcomers strike me as not even knowing what they don't know, if you know what I mean! So it's a bit premature to declare them "less serious" about control, or topping, or anything else. When they discover the possibilities, that might change. In addition, for many people there's a slippery slope....

Bottom line is, I guess I'm not all that wild about this whole serious/less serious distinction.

In any case, I'm off for the weekend. Best wishes to all for a good one.

 

[ecstaticsub]

See, this is the part I get stuck on. Why does it drive you crazy? How do they affect your life and your relationship with your PYL, which by all indications seem to be flourishing? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm honestly curious.


Does this happen often? Can you give some sort of specific example?

Of course, they do not effect my relationship with my dominant. But submission means something. It is like someone calling themselves a chef and being unable to fry an egg. I work hard to be the best submissive I can be. When someone says they are submissive and then turns around and lies to their dominant or is manipulative it irks me. As I said I am not going to say anything because it doesn't affect me or my relationship but I am not going to remain friends with that person because that sort of behavior (lying) drives me batshit crazy.

It has happened on a number of occasions where someone who ID's as a submissive will act incredulous when I tell them I am not allowed to bottom to anyone else, including in a public play space. I have been invited to events and have politely declined because of this rule only to be told "Your dominant doesn't need to know". When I decline again I am told I take things too seriously and I don't know how to have fun.

Again, it doesn't affect my D/s relationship but I have lost friends who I otherwise have really clicked with because of my adherence to rules.

 

[teknight]

Of course, they do not effect my relationship with my dominant. But submission means something. It is like someone calling themselves a chef and being unable to fry an egg. I work hard to be the best submissive I can be. When someone says they are submissive and then turns around and lies to their dominant or is manipulative it irks me. As I said I am not going to say anything because it doesn't affect me or my relationship but I am not going to remain friends with that person because that sort of behavior (lying) drives me batshit crazy.

It has happened on a number of occasions where someone who ID's as a submissive will act incredulous when I tell them I am not allowed to bottom to anyone else, including in a public play space. I have been invited to events and have politely declined because of this rule only to be told "Your dominant doesn't need to know". When I decline again I am told I take things too seriously and I don't know how to have fun.

Again, it doesn't affect my D/s relationship but I have lost friends who I otherwise have really clicked with because of my adherence to rules.

So, you're monogamous....and hate people who lie. That's not strict BDSM, that's what any human being might do. I'm confused.

 

[ecstaticsub]

So, you're monogamous....and hate people who lie. That's not strict BDSM, that's what any human being might do. I'm confused.

Actually I am not monogamous my husband is not my dominant, but that's besides the point here.

Why are you confused?

 

[Keroin]

Of course, they do not effect my relationship with my dominant. But submission means something. It is like someone calling themselves a chef and being unable to fry an egg. I work hard to be the best submissive I can be. When someone says they are submissive and then turns around and lies to their dominant or is manipulative it irks me. As I said I am not going to say anything because it doesn't affect me or my relationship but I am not going to remain friends with that person because that sort of behavior (lying) drives me batshit crazy.

In the context of RL and friendship, yes, I can certainly see that. There are parallels I can draw upon in my own life, in other settings.

But does it bother you as much when it happens online? On a forum such as this, for example where you don't know the person and likely never will?

It has happened on a number of occasions where someone who ID's as a submissive will act incredulous when I tell them I am not allowed to bottom to anyone else, including in a public play space. I have been invited to events and have politely declined because of this rule only to be told "Your dominant doesn't need to know". When I decline again I am told I take things too seriously and I don't know how to have fun.

Again, it doesn't affect my D/s relationship but I have lost friends who I otherwise have really clicked with because of my adherence to rules.

Well, that example sure doesn't gel with my idea of "fun", that's for sure. LOL. I don't equivocate lying and going against the specific arrangement agreed upon between a pyl & PYL as playful or fun. I think people like that just throw those words around to try to push your buttons, which is a shame.

And yeah, in a RL situation where you are trying to make friends and acquaintances that would be annoying.

 

[teknight]

Actually I am not monogamous my husband is not my dominant, but that's besides the point here.

Why are you confused?

I don't get what about that pertains exclusively to being a sub, I guess.

 

[ecstaticsub]

In the context of RL and friendship, yes, I can certainly see that. There are parallels I can draw upon in my own life, in other settings.

But does it bother you as much when it happens online? On a forum such as this, for example where you don't know the person and likely never will?

Not as much, no. It gets tiresome seeing the same thing over and over again but I really don't care that much. It is one of the reasons I stay out of the more serious conversations here on Lit.

 

[ecstaticsub]

I don't get what about that pertains exclusively to being a sub, I guess.

Because in general submissives follow rules set by their dominants. I am never allowed to bottom to anyone else. I don't look at bottoming (or topping) in the same way as having sex with someone. If I were free then I may bottom to a variety of people just because I like the sensation of bondage, or spanking or whatever. But I'm not, so I must obey. Some so-called submissives are allowed to bottom to whoever they want. That's their relationship, their rules, but not mine. The problem is that they don't respect my choice to obey.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Because in general submissives follow rules set by their dominants. I am never allowed to bottom to anyone else. I don't look at bottoming (or topping) in the same way as having sex with someone. If I were free then I may bottom to a variety of people just because I like the sensation of bondage, or spanking or whatever. But I'm not, so I must obey. Some so-called submissives are allowed to bottom to whoever they want. That's their relationship, their rules, but not mine. The problem is that they don't respect my choice to obey.

In a nutshell.

And if I heard a proclaimed submissive say anything like "My Master or Mistress will never know" I'd be horrified and shocked and think a lot less of that person.

 

[00Syd]

Because in general submissives follow rules set by their dominants. I am never allowed to bottom to anyone else. I don't look at bottoming (or topping) in the same way as having sex with someone. If I were free then I may bottom to a variety of people just because I like the sensation of bondage, or spanking or whatever. But I'm not, so I must obey. Some so-called submissives are allowed to bottom to whoever they want. That's their relationship, their rules, but not mine. The problem is that they don't respect my choice to obey.

Why call them "so-called submissives" if they are allowed to bottom to whomever they choose (and are therefor following the rules set by their dominant)?

 

[ecstaticsub]

Why call them "so-called submissives" if they are allowed to bottom to whomever they choose (and are therefor following the rules set by their dominant)?

You're absolutely right. I apologize. I think I was still thinking of the submissives who lie to their dominants about what they are doing.

 

[sb2009]

everyone has different rules. I would never question why someone chooses to do or not do something. If I invited someone to an event (or to the movies or bowling) and they said "No thank you" I would NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS inquire why they chose to decline my invite.

And if anyone ever asks me to explain myself if I say I can't do anything...honestly? They are on my list of people.I.don't.want.to.be.around. I'm really fucking weird about being asked why I a not available for something. So that in and of itself would piss me off ;-)

Now, no one has ever said to me directly that I'm not a twoo sub. But there have been plenty of threads on Fetlife (not in Manwhores ROFL) where there have been indirect stabs at those less than true submissives. And the very reason I don't post in the "Submissive Women" forum is because, in my own humble opinion, the frequent posters there have huge sticks up their bums and would suck the fun out of anything.

Which really, is how I interpret this whole thing - that even as fucking awesome as BDSM is, there are tons of wet blankets who can suck the fun out of it fast!

 

[midwestyankee]

You're absolutely right. I apologize. I think I was still thinking of the submissives who lie to their dominants about what they are doing.

Lying doesn't transform someone from being a submissive to being something other any more than cheating on a test changes a student into something other (well, unless the cheating leads to an expulsion, I suppose). That said, if you identify strongly with being a submissive, I can imagine that when another submissive behaves badly you might feel as if they have dishonored the role.

 

[ecstaticsub]

Lying doesn't transform someone from being a submissive to being something other any more than cheating on a test changes a student into something other (well, unless the cheating leads to an expulsion, I suppose). That said, if you identify strongly with being a submissive, I can imagine that when another submissive behaves badly you might feel as if they have dishonored the role.

I don't agree. At least to me being submissive means submitting--as in submitting to the rules set by your PYL. A student can be a student even if they cheat. How can a submissive be a submissive if they don't lie about following rules?